Off-week, Nelson? These are off-stories!

Maria: "Oh no, we're losing Nelson! We're losing him! I need something awesome. HOGAN STOP EATING THE PAPER"

Hogan Sheffer: "ME WANT FOOD..."

Some stories still might work if it wasn't for the poor execution. What is it exactly that was working from Nov-Mar that has suddenly gone wrong? It's the same team, so where the hell did they get lost? There are too many beats to stories being lost and it is causing many problems. I am very glad that MAB's praisers DC & Nelson have realized something is wrong. People on forums may be dissatisfied but the network will realize it yet when the press world starts commenting on how many things have gone wrong.

Heh, DC even expanded on their criticisms of Y&R in their weekly CBS/DAYS podcast today. They really ripped the Phillip III story apart, deservedly so.

They also rip the show for being too dark, plot-driven, dumbing down characters, too fast paced, and abysmal...

http://daytimeconfidential.com/2009/07/21/dc-431-cbs-and-days-genoa-city-we-have-a-problem

I'm so glad that people who seemingly turned a blind eye to the horrible condition of this show are finally waking up...

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I'm so glad that people who seemingly turned a blind eye to the horrible condition of this show are finally waking up...

I don't think it is a blind eye. It's called "keep hope alive". It's called "being supportive for as long as you can". It's called "having faith".

If your orientation to life is more pessimistic/realism, it is easier to jump on the negative bandwagon.

If your orientation is hope and optimism, it is easier to focus on the good longer.

But when the pessimists and the optimists come to the same conclusion...which is where we seem rapidly to have come...it's time for a little repair work.

I don't think it is a blind eye. It's called "keep hope alive". It's called "being supportive for as long as you can". It's called "having faith".

Non-sarcastic question: do you accept that it can also be called dumb & blind?

What I'm not sure of is why the only story "Auntie Ri Ri" has messed up is the Phillip story. As deeply flawed as this story is, it's still better than the gaslighting, the total lack of followup on Katherine and Jill being unrelated, Adam's character being ruined, the completely lifeless Victor/Ashley and Billy/Mac reunions, or the complete disintegration of Mary Jane, or the awful quad. I read that DC piece on the weaknesses in the Phillip story and they took so long to tell us how this group had made Y&R brilliant again and then finally there was some criticism of one storyline. Y&R does not know how to pace most of their stories, they don't know character balance, they struggle with writing for sympathetic characters, they struggle writing friendships or families, they have little idea of how to write for women, they don't seem to have any sense of empathy or of what viewers can tolerate or not tolerate. Those problems cause a deep rot in the show.

I'm glad that those in the soap press who love the show are finally being somewhat critical, but it's more than just one story or one character. I think so many went into the idea that these names were Y&R's salvation that it's very difficult to admit that the names have feet of clay.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by CarlD2

Heh, DC even expanded on their criticisms of Y&R in their weekly CBS/DAYS podcast today. They really ripped the Phillip III story apart, deservedly so.

They also rip the show for being too dark, plot-driven, dumbing down characters, too fast paced, and abysmal...

http://daytimeconfidential.com/2009/07/21/dc-431-cbs-and-days-genoa-city-we-have-a-problem

I'm so glad that people who seemingly turned a blind eye to the horrible condition of this show are finally waking up...

Yeah, I don't understand the "finally" line either. Why couldn't it just be that we didn't think it was as bad at the time as you did? God knows, I find a lot of shows terrible that others like. Does that mean I want them to "finally wake up"? No - I want them to enjoy it as long as they possibly can. I would never wish somebody to fall out of love with their show, just so they would agree with me.

Knowing the end result of these storylines ahead of time doesn't help one to enjoy what occurs in the present[\b] as much one could I think.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by rhythmchyc

Knowing the end result of these storylines ahead of time doesn't help one to enjoy what occurs in the present[\b] as much one could I think.

Every time I exercise some self-control and avoid spoilers (and this goes for any soap I've watched in my soap-viewing life), I've always been able to enjoy it more. Even just for the small moments. It's hard for me to take any scene seriously with a set of characters, when I know what's going to happen a week or a month from now. I just sit there and think "Yeah, yeah - get on with it. We already know where this is going." Phillip was a great example of that - we were all talking about the "Phillip is gay" story for about two months before it even aired. By the second episode, I felt like I had been watching it FOREVER.

Granted, the Phillip story is a bad example, as I don't like how it unfolded on-camera anyway. But it's the first example that came to mind.

At the moment, I'm reading spoilers for the three soaps I watch, but I may put another self-imposed exile on myself and the spoiler thread again. I find I get MUCH bitchier about storylines and storytelling when I see them summed up in a couple sentences for the next month.

Non-sarcastic question: do you accept that it can also be called dumb & blind?

Apparently I can accept anything!

I know this is cynical but I usually take different views of the opinions of fans on a board like, say, SON, and of fans who run soap websites or write soap columns that involve heavy access to cast and crew. I think many of the fans here who have tried to stay positive about the show are genuinely invested in the show and look for the best. Even if I disagree, I can respect that. What I don't respect (and I realize no one needs my respect) is when I go to columns or sites and see the stuff which is all about the dream team who saved Y&R, and isn't this all so cute and funny, and there's less focus on the actual quality or storytelling. What that means is you get stories which are hyped up and then when they don't materialize, heavy attempts at CYA. Many fans here were looking forward to Adam/Rafe, but most of them weren't hyping this as sure to be hot stuff, great, et al. That means when the story didn't work out as expected, they weren't suddenly saying Yani Gellman sucks and needs to be recast. And with Thom Bierdz, many of the fans here who were looking forward to the story never claimed he was going to be something he wasn't. They are willing to wait and see with his acting. That means they aren't saying he's an actor to watch one week and then a week or two later suddenly criticizing him.

My opinion on spoilers, I see them as advance warning. I would hate to invest in a story and then learn it is going to fall apart. For instance, I was very glad to know Raul would be leaving again within a short time, because otherwise I would have been shocked and very annoyed that they brought his character back solely for some offcamera instareunion with Mackenzie, only for her to dump him within a few weeks.

Yeah, I don't understand the "finally" line either. Why couldn't it just be that we didn't think it was as bad at the time as you did? God knows, I find a lot of shows terrible that others like. Does that mean I want them to "finally wake up"? No - I want them to enjoy it as long as they possibly can. I would never wish somebody to fall out of love with their show, just so they would agree with me.

No, it means Y&R was being touted as the genre's saving grave by BOTH Nelson and DC when A LOT of fans were unhappy. Look, Y&R was decent earlier in the year, but the press continually overlooked its flaws and refused to give it any criticism. Even when the show was decent a few months ago, it was nothing brilliant or flawless to overlook anything else that wasn't working. I don't see how anyone can deny the excessive praise and lack of constructive criticism that Nelson and DC were giving Y&R just a little while ago, in contrast to other shows.

More and more praise by the press was being bestowed upon this show as it got worse and worse over the course of this year so far, IMO, so I'm glad that finally, people are picking out its flaws and taking the show to task for it.

One of them mentioned in the DC podcast that the Adam recast and Bierdz return gave them time to slow down and think about the flaws of this show that they might have neglected before, and if that's true, I'm personally glad for it.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

No, it means Y&R was being touted as the genre's saving grave by BOTH Nelson and DC when A LOT of fans were unhappy. Look, Y&R was decent earlier in the year, but the press continually overlooked its flaws and refused to give it any criticism. Even when the show was decent a few months ago, it was nothing brilliant or flawless to overlook anything else that wasn't working.

More and more praise by the press was being bestowed upon this show as it got worse and worse over the course of this year so far, IMO, so I'm glad that finally, people are picking out its flaws and taking the show to task for it.

Ahhh... okay, I get what you're saying now. Sorry I misunderstood. Yeah, that's always been my problem with the press, especially the online press. Everybody's either The Savior or The Hack. I've always had that axe to grind with the online press. It's either crap or it's sheer brilliance, when chances are, it's usually somewhere in the middle on all the shows. The "journalists" seriously need a lesson on The Kinsey Scale. LOL!

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by brimike

OMG what's the rush? Has Christopher Goutman taken over Y&R? Already tomorrow in Canada,

Chloe will kiss Chance.

What's the freakin' rush with these storylines? So many beats of different storylines are being missed.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by dmarex

OMG what's the rush? Has Christopher Goutman taken over Y&R? Already tomorrow in Canada, Chloe will kiss Chance. What's the freakin' rush will of these storylines. So many beats of different storylines are being missed.

BAD BAD BAD BAD MOVE.