Baby-killer/woman-torturer Adam though is pure plot.

What I have a problem with in your attitude is that you don't seem disgusted by it. Am I wrong? You seem to love the dark, creepy, psycho Adam... Do you honestly believe a character like that can survive? Without consequences? Or at all?

Great post.

I would much rather see rafe find out about Adam and adam start a poor me story and crying and as rafe goes to hug him adam slips him a kiss. a hawt passionate i need you kiss and takes it from there then strings this guy along for months.

pretty much how i see it going if it was a male/female

I'm curious as to how this turns out. Supposedly, Adam bangs Rafe next week. And they are saying that's why CE left. He didnt want to do the sex scenes.

Memo to ATWT Goutman...watch a true male to male sex scene and not one that was made up out of thin air....LOL

Luke and Noah kiss...bed is nearby...Next scene Noah out of shower.....and Luke mumbles..it was great...blah..blah...to that...LOL

I get that Adam is blinded by a need for revenge. I just can not buy that a son of Hope Wilson is so very depraved that he killed Ashley's baby and let's her think it's still alive. So Adam has no limits? Is he going to grow up to be Hitler? Really?! In real life, women like Hope can have screwed up kids -- but this? If you have a real-life example please send it me because I just don't think this is credible. Dark Adam is great. Baby-killer/woman-torturer Adam though is pure plot.

Kids are not always a direct reflect of their parents. Very famous serial killers, if you watch their profiles, had great parents.

some people are just fucked up, lol.

adam is, i love it.

What I have a problem with in your attitude is that you don't seem disgusted by it. Am I wrong? You seem to love the dark, creepy, psycho Adam... Do you honestly believe a character like that can survive? Without consequences? Or at all?

I do love it.

I think its fantastic.

I want to see more of it.

And yes, i think he can survive.

I am also a lifelong Days fan and thought SuBe & Spyder Games were great! LOL!!

What I have a problem with in your attitude is that you don't seem disgusted by it. Am I wrong? You seem to love the dark, creepy, psycho Adam... Do you honestly believe a character like that can survive? Without consequences? Or at all?

I don't love it. Where did you get that idea? I am okay with "dark" Adam -- someone who would lock VICTOR or JACK up in a dungeon. I am NOT okay with psycho Adam who targets an innocent woman. It's a testament to CE's performance that I was able to root for such a misogynistic character. I would much rather that Adam were written as targeting the men who wronged him, not poor stupid innocent Ashley and her innocent baby.

According to Nelson on another board, the Adam/Rafe sex scene happens OFF screen...

I'm curious as to how this turns out. Supposedly, Adam bangs Rafe next week. And they are saying that's why CE left. He didnt want to do the sex scenes.

Memo to ATWT Goutman...watch a true male to male sex scene and not one that was made up out of thin air....LOL

Luke and Noah kiss...bed is nearby...Next scene Noah out of shower.....and Luke mumbles..it was great...blah..blah...to that...LOL

When this story started, people said ATWT should watch to see how gay characters are written, and so far, Rafe is almost invisible and has no personality or motivation of his own. He only seems to exist because we're supposed to be shocked that Adam is so desperate he's going to bed another man. That's why I can't say whether he needs a top or needs to be bottom or whatever else, because for all we know, he needs Adam to dress up in an animal costume. He's been around for months and we barely know him.

We know they'll kiss, but I'm not sure they'll actually have a sex scene. I think we could see them in bed together afterwards, or one of them in bed, but a sex scene might be too much for daytime. It would be nice to see one though.

According to Nelson on another board, the Adam/Rafe sex scene happens OFF screen...

i dont have an issue with that...

i mean how do they show that? really, on american daytime tv? When people freak the hell out about two boys ven kissing.

and how do you block that? Bend over here? lol.

i dont have an issue with that...

i mean how do they show that? really, on american daytime tv? When people freak the hell out about two boys ven kissing.

and how do you block that? Bend over here? lol.

Off screen can mean they'll either show them waking up in bed, or talking about having sex at a later date. Both scenarios are pretty lame.

Edited June 19, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I don't love it. Where did you get that idea? I am okay with "dark" Adam -- someone who would lock VICTOR or JACK up in a dungeon. I am NOT okay with psycho Adam who targets an innocent woman. It's a testament to CE's performance that I was able to root for such a misogynistic character. I would much rather that Adam were written as targeting the men who wronged him, not poor stupid innocent Ashley and her innocent baby.

All I wanted to know.

I don't know, it's just seemed like you were enjoying him torturing Ashley...

i dont have an issue with that...

i mean how do they show that? really, on american daytime tv? When people freak the hell out about two boys ven kissing.

and how do you block that? Bend over here? lol.

They could just cut it short and have Adam in bed, Rafe under the covers, leaving viewers to guess the rest...

I'm not surprised they aren't going to show the sex scene. Daytime is only going to go so far, and Y&R is at least going to have them kiss. I just hope fans who have high expectations for the story won't be disappointed. For all the flak ATWT got over the Nuke non-sex scene, this shows they were not alone in not wanting to push too much of the envelope. It's understandable, there's still a lot of hate out there and Y&R has experienced this several times over the years, first with Kay/JoAnn and then the backlash against Neil/Victoria.

My only big problem with this is that there really is nothing to the story besides Adam placating Rafe sexually, wearing down his defenses. So by not showing this, they're taking away most of what would make the relationship believable, or have any purpose. They could have built up a bond between Rafe and Adam for months, to make it more understandable why Adam would be able to so quickly bed him, but they chose not to do that.

I don't love it. Where did you get that idea? I am okay with "dark" Adam -- someone who would lock VICTOR or JACK up in a dungeon. I am NOT okay with psycho Adam who targets an innocent woman. It's a testament to CE's performance that I was able to root for such a misogynistic character. I would much rather that Adam were written as targeting the men who wronged him, not poor stupid innocent Ashley and her innocent baby.

I just thought of something terrible to say involving Rafe in that idea. BAD LEE.

What interests me is how they're ever going to redeem him. It'll really suck in a year if he and Ashley are even tentatively on good terms. I want the town to hate Adam for a LONG time, like Todd on OLTL in his early years.

:huh:Okay, what I'm about to say is gonna sound awful. But here is why I prefer Muhney in the role to Engen (I think). Muhney screams "top" to me. Which is just what Rafe needs. Don't hate me.

I agree. Adam could have been a really interesting gay character by daytime standards, if things had just not taken such a ghastly turn before this. I would have loved to see Adam as a take no prisoner's gay man. A tough guy (like Victor) who just happens to prefer shagging men. Then every once in awhile someone hot can fall under his evil spell. But it's kind of ruined now because they have made Adam too evil. They could turn it around, but I'm not sure they will, and it seems like they mean to keep Adam straight.

Even if Adam hadn't become completely evil, I don't think they would have made him gay. I think their main point of interest in this story may be showing that he isn't gay, that he is doing this because he will do anything to keep his vendetta going without being caught. I think if Y&R ever has a main male character as gay he wouldn't be a Victor type. The show is currently too emeshed in socially conservative viewpoints.

I also don't know if he would be a top, or if Rafe needs a top. Being a top isn't always about being in charge, or about power. The main male TV character who used sexual domination to get what he wanted from men and women, Chris Keller on Oz, implied he was versatile, IIRC.

Even if Adam hadn't become completely evil, I don't think they would have made him gay. I think their main point of interest in this story may be showing that he isn't gay, that he is doing this because he will do anything to keep his vendetta going without being caught. I think if Y&R ever has a main male character as gay he wouldn't be a Victor type. The show is currently too emeshed in socially conservative viewpoints.

I also don't know if he would be a top, or if Rafe needs a top. Being a top isn't always about being in charge, or about power. The main male TV character who used sexual domination to get what he wanted from men and women, Chris Keller on Oz, implied he was versatile, IIRC.

I agree, but it's what I really would like to see. Nuke is great, but Noah and Luke are gentle, sweet guys for the most part. I'd love to see a harder more diabolical gay character on Y&R. Maybe someday it will happen, but I agree if won't be Adam (sadly).

I think Y&R could eventually have a malevolent gay male character, but a Victor, who the show sees as usually in the right, as a good guy underneath, as a complex man you have to love and understand -- that would be a real test for them.