Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 6, 2009 Members Share Posted June 6, 2009 How have you been such a big Y&R fan for 36 years then? Bill Bell never really did stories like that. Baby switches are convoluted and dumb, it's right up there with the most cliche and overused of soap stories. After a while, they really insult any intelligence you have left for these shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted June 6, 2009 Members Share Posted June 6, 2009 Bill Bell had Sheila. Sheila Sheila Sheila! The best baby switch EVER. I agree with you that all of it can be awful. But done right, the cliches (from "Who's the Daddy" to "Amnesia" to whatever) can be remarkably fun and effective. In this particular case, the reason I wouldn't mind a babyswitch is because it truly involves the CORE of the canvas. It is a total umbrella that -- especially if it bridges Adam and Mary Jane -- brings almost all the stories together. Indeed, more and more, since the summer previews talk about a tragic event that will link the Abbotts and the Newmans....I'm quite certain we're heading here. With this crew, I think it will be must-see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 6, 2009 Members Share Posted June 6, 2009 But the baby switch was only one layer of Sheila and Lauren's rivalry, and even then, a huge part of that story was Sheila's psychosis and seeing how far she would go. I think part of the reason Sheila became so popular was because a lot of people had no sympathy for Lauren, since she was such a snotty bitch for most of her early years on the show. Sheila, before she became a cartoon, had a great vulnerable side to her. Probably one story where the villain came out more popular than the heroine at the end. I don't have faith in this writing regime to carry one out. Look what Katherine's kidnapping became, looking at Kevin's Stockholm Syndrome, and look at Sharon's current Who's The Daddy saga... This writing regime hasn't been very innovative to its storytelling approach. Also, I'm not invested in either Sharon or Ashley's pregnancies to even care what happens to any baby involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted June 6, 2009 Members Share Posted June 6, 2009 In this case it certainly will. If the women give birth around the same time, then I can suspend disbelief. I'm going to have a damn hard time believing that any woman can think she went to term and gave birth when she didn't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted June 6, 2009 Members Share Posted June 6, 2009 But, of course, you could take almost every word above, substitute 'Mary Jane' for Sheila, and either 'Ashley' or 'Sharon' for Lauren, and the paragraph would almost hold exactly for this story. And there is more. We KNOW why Patty Jane is damaged. We saw it happen 25+ years ago. Paul loves her. Some of us loved her. Her plaintive wailing to Victor established how he has misused her. She has a real rooting value already. Same with Adam. He was treated wretchedly by the Newmans, so he has rooting value. Again, we saw him born. We loved his mother. All this matters. Ashley has often been a "snotty b!tch", and many people hate her. I hated her when she stole Victor all those years ago. (I'm happy to post a clip, again, about how evil she was). She remains snotty to Gloria, to Estella, to Jill. And Sharon...well...we KNOW she has LEGIONS of haters. So that's why, if Patty Jane steals Sharon's baby, and gives it to Ashley (and Adam has killed Ashley's baby) there are still no CLEAR CUT black and white characters in this. Building on the "academic" discussion last week, you can take the perspective of each of these characters. You can feel for all of them (if you're so inclined). This is going to be an all time great story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 6, 2009 Members Share Posted June 6, 2009 I don't think it's wise to play a convoluted baby switch story at the same time as Phillip III coming back from the dead. This show is slowly becoming Passions. Also, this never-ending quad story is right out of the JER rulebook with the constant flip-flopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted June 6, 2009 Members Share Posted June 6, 2009 I see your point. I didn't regularly watch Passions. So far, this hasn't been as eye-rolling to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 We all know that Sharon & Ashley got pregnant at different times. We saw a retcon though on Friday when Nick told Victor that Sharon & Ashley were due at the same time [which Adam overheard]. Mary Jane & Adam have shared enemies, and if she is indeed Patty [of course she is], they are also connected through Heather. We've joked about the horrible possibility that Sharon is pregnant with twins (one by Nick, one by Jack), so another possibility is Sharon suffers a Vicky Lord, thinks she only has one baby, and doesn't realize the second one is being raised by another woman. I've always maintained that despite his cruelty to Ashley, Adam cares about her. Hell, maybe even loves her. Maybe even in love with her. He may indeed feel guilty enough to get her a new baby by any means necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 Pretty much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cashton Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 Comparing Y&R to Passions is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 Not really, Y&R has taken a turn for the ridiculous in recent months. Cartoon kidnappings, chipmunk visions, quads where the women give up their dignity for a man's penis, a character with plastic surgery that's hiding her identity, who's the daddy drama, Daniel's dumb ass art story, Phillip back from the dead, etc. I'm sick of this ridiculous sh!t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cashton Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 Sorry u see it that way. Y&R is light years ahead of Passions. The acting is amazing. The writing is edgy and unpredictable. The production values are top-notch. The casting is usually spot on. The directing and lighting are way above par. i commend MAB for dealing with all the behind-the-scenes chaos and still putting in good show. it's not perfect, sure - the art story is tanking. The Winters are still yawn city. Chipmunk was a giant dud. But it entertains me and has me dying to see the next episode. All in all - damn good soap to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 This show is missing a lot of heart to me, there's just too much dark chaos going on. There doesn't really seem to be any moralistic center to the show anymore. The emotional core seems to be rotting away and no one is doing anything to save it. Everything just seems way too hollow and sensationalistic to me. It's like they do everything for shock, awe, and plot, but it really doesn't have a significant meaning in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted June 7, 2009 Members Share Posted June 7, 2009 I could live with this, might even like it. It's the Ashley side of the story that I have an issue with. If they wanted to go there they should have had Ashley give birth to a stillborn baby. That I could live with. Hell, I'll give them the chance to sell this story to me, I'm just saying I'm very skeptical. Which is pretty much how I feel about Philip's rewrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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