Ashley and Neil?

Neil is poison with anyone but Drucilla, IMO.

Neil, what a lame and boring-ass character by himself, he'll bring Ashley down as much as Victor does.

Yes, but having her die also reminds the audience how tragic life can be. It would have been nice seeing Camryn continue to grow up on screen, but four years later and her death is still affecting the canvas and viewers. I think in the end, the death itself worked nicely (not the best phrasing of words, LoL).

Yes. I remember thinking at the time that all the Newman money and all Victor's power was useless in the face of tragedy.

Neil is poison with anyone but Drucilla, IMO.

Neil, what a lame and boring-ass character by himself, he'll bring Ashley down as much as Victor does.

Exactly.

I don't know how to fix him. I feel he shouldn't be tossed, because of what he represents (in part). But damn, I'd hire Victoria Rowell to imagine a story for him...she can consult at a distance. SOMETHING has to fix him.

Could Tyra be brutally murdered, and Neil the prime suspect? And in going through that, he comes out a changed man? I have no clue. I really want to like Neil...but I never have.

(I take that back. There was a brief time, actually during LML, after he decided to drop Carmen...and then after her murder...where he was this strong patriarch. And I really liked him during that phase. It lasted a few weeks).

I wish they'd get rid of all the Winter's. The current writing for them is horrible and really off-putting.

Either hire some great storytellers, or let these characters die already. MAB and company can't dream up one good storyline for these folks.

Ashley and Neil?

Forgot about him! Oh that would be really good. There's all sorts of complications with that relationship.

The point isn't acting ability, having a character and actor grow up with the audience builds a special type of bond that most soaps don't have, It creates a certain familiarity that can go a long way.

If Grimes didn't want to stay, they could have written her out without killing her. That way, they could bring her back whenever they wanted if Grimes wished to return.

I completely agree. I really wanted ABby to grow up on screen.I wish soaps would slow down the SORASing. I really wanted ABby to grow up on screen. It doesn't happen enough.

Yes. I remember thinking at the time that all the Newman money and all Victor's power was useless in the face of tragedy.

Yes...I thought that too. Cassie's death (and later Sabrina's), was the one foe Victor could not vanquish. It was nice to see him humanized briefly, if only in that way.

I completely agree. I really wanted ABby to grow up on screen.I wish soaps would slow down the SORASing. I really wanted ABby to grow up on screen. It doesn't happen enough.

But NOW look what we're stuck with. "Dear God in Heaven"

Yes. I remember thinking at the time that all the Newman money and all Victor's power was useless in the face of tragedy.

Exactly. The best part was Olivia telling Victor that there was nothing that can be done. Eric Braeden nailed those scenes. That entire episode was just perfection (minus Fishers, I believe). I just wish Heather Tom was there at the time, it would have been even better!

Neil is not a poison without Drucilla. The writing is poison for Neil, without Drucilla. I bet Rowell was very vocal in keeping them romantic and fun. The complications of Neil/Ashley would be AMAZING. It would pull Neil back into the core of GC.

Edited May 31, 200916 yr by MTSRocks

I wish they'd get rid of all the Winter's. The current writing for them is horrible and really off-putting.

Either hire some great storytellers, or let these characters die already. MAB and company can't dream up one good storyline for these folks.

So, we actually agree about the Winters. They are just rotting on the vine.

What would you do? Let's assume you CAN'T drop Neil and Lily and you could possibly even have Olivia back on contract, if you wanted (you can recast any of them too, if you want). What would you do to fix them?

But NOW look what we're stuck with. "Dear God in Heaven"

I guess she is supposed to be Y&R's answer to Paris Hilton. And while it does make sense that Ashley's daughter is superficial and snobby, this actress is off putting so far. It could be the writing though. I felt she was written completely wrong after Brad's death.

Exactly. The best part was Olivia telling Victor that there was nothing that can be done. Eric Braeden nailed those scenes. That entire episode was just perfection (minus Fishers, I believe). I just wish Heather Tom was there at the time, it would have been even better!

Neil is not a poison without Drucilla. The writing is poison for Neil, without Drucilla. I bet Rowell was very vocal in keeping them romantic and fun. The complications of Neil/Ashley would be AMAZING. It would pull Neil back into the core of GC.

Heather . She's across the hall! I just don't see why this ENORMOUS problem can't be fixed!!!

Were the Fishers really in Cassie's death ep?? I don't recall them at all.

How would you fix Neil? Really Ashley? I just see Neil as so dishwater bland. He's been remarkably good (as an actor) in giving us a consistent portrayal...so I find no fault with KSJ.

But how would you fix Neil and the Winters? I'd really like to hear some good ideas put out in the universe. I'm blank on this topic.

I guess she is supposed to be Y&R's answer to Paris Hilton. And while it does make sense that Ashley's daughter is superficial and snobby, this actress is off putting so far. It could be the writing though. I felt she was written completely wrong after Brad's death.

I dislike her more than Eden, Lily, Colleen. That is really saying something.

They got to start writing for the Winters like they do the rest of the cast, and not as outsiders.

BTW, Joshua Morrow totally blew Sharon Case out of he water during Cassie's death - which Case would later then turn in brilliant performances the next year.

So, we actually agree about the Winters. They are just rotting on the vine.

What would you do? Let's assume you CAN'T drop Neil and Lily and you could possibly even have Olivia back on contract, if you wanted (you can recast any of them too, if you want). What would you do to fix them?

Hire some imaginative storytellers, MAB and company just don't cut it. Even LML wrote more for the Winter's and though her writing generally sucked, it's sad that her storylines had more depth for the this family than anything MAB's given them thus far.

This show has major cracks that MAB and her company just can't fix. I wish she'd swallow her pride and find a real soap storyteller that writes an exquisite long-term bible for her. That storyteller can HW the show, while MAB keeps her Co-EP credit and does her best to make sure this writer isn't being messed with by higher-ups.

They got to start writing for the Winters like they do the rest of the cast, and not as outsiders.

BTW, Joshua Morrow totally blew Sharon Case out of he water during Cassie's death - which Case would later then turn in brilliant performances the next year.

I agree on both scores.

But I mean, HOW do they write for the Winters like the rest of the cast?

Chancellors - scrambled DNA

Abbotts - babies out the wazoo; Sharon's daily new sexual adventure

Newmans - really just Phick these days, and the gaslighting

Williams - don't exist

Using those as your template, what can they do to make the Winters interesting?

There's no fixing them. Just write for them decently. If they can get half the material that the other cast members do, then most people wouldn't complain as much.

Neil and Ashley would be hot. Especially if Dru would return one day. Last time she pushed her sister on Ashley's husband, and now Ashley has her man.

One last thing, I'll never forgive the person who gave us that horrible song during John's death.