Y&R: Shocking Role Recast

[DRW50]

Supposedly Dixie Carter made them agree that for every liberal speech she gave, they'd let her sing a song. I think that was a smart way for her to go about it.

[MarkH]

So what do you make of that? It doesn't seem prejudiced to me. He DID the scene. It seems like he's straight, so it is not a turnon. It seems like he has legitimate issues with stubble .

What do you think? Sorry this is a bit OT.

Again, they later referenced Boone as bi ("Cruising all the hot guys", his sister said, in the Sydney airport)...so he has embraced these roles. He also showed his full package in thrusting sex scenes in Tell Me That You Love Me, so he seems quite willing to go wherever it needs to go for a role....

[JackPeyton]

well markH, imho, and well... since this is already soo OTT...

IMHO, it seems that *most* gay guys think that if an actor doesnt come out screaming from the rooftops that they loved doing gay scenes and had no issue or even gave it a second thought about kissing a guy in a scene then they shun it and ditn want to do it and it was uncomfortable and they hate the gays.

when really, im sorry, of course its odd and uncomfortable. shall we post all the interviews where actors also say how uncomfortable it was for them to film a sex scenes with a female costar? or how they didnt like kissing a female costar for whatever reason.

[MarkH]

Okay, thanks. I still don't get the point.

Bingo! We have a winner! Not a SINGLE other reporter of this story did the due diligence for independent sources or on-the-record quotes for attribution.

NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Love or hate Nelson, he put it out there. But we all know the context of his reports...the 'gossip columnist' who cites 'set-siders'. You can love it or leave it.

But EVERY other official report that was based of Nelson...EVERY ONE...is unworthy of any attention, IMO, because they contributed NOTHING to the story.

I mean, SOD at least didn't truck in the rumor. They simply reported "nu-Adam", and that was it. That's what TVGuide.com did too. I find no fault with them...they didn't report the rumors. But Linda Hirsch (sp?) for example...that's a different story. She makes money in legitimate newspapers (right?). And she reported an unsourced rumor (on which she did no leg work) as truth. THAT makes me angry.

Excellent point. I really find NO fault with what Somerhalder said, personally. He DID the scenes. He PLAYED the roles. They looked good on screen!

He just wasn't personally into stubble. That's cool... It didn't show on screen.

[SteveFrame]

One of the other big Internet sites (not sure if I can mention it so I won't) has done an official story on it - the first soap opera site I have seen do one. They quote Nelson but leave out the alledgedly part.

They also throw in there that Engen attended Catholic school back in his time, and the state the motto of the school. They do not go on to state whether they researched to find out if he is indeed Catholic or not. I find that very sensationalistic and lazy journalism there too. I am very disappointed in that site. You put something out there only for the purpose of inflaming an already angered group of people. People who will read that and put it together with other things and make even more assumptions.

I have known tons of people over the years who attended Catholic school who were not Catholic. We have 3 religious private schools in our area. Last fall when admission stuff was reported in the papers, most of them had almost 50% of students who were not part of that religion at all. There are just no wealthy private schools in this area and people put them there due to not wanting to attend public school.

All this makes me think even worse of these supposed journalists.

[rhinohide]

I don't know if CE is a homophobe. In fact, I don't know anything about what he thinks or feels about anything, but then neither does anyone else in this thread, and that hasn't stopped them from making huge assumptions, so I won't apologize for mine. I don't understand why it's homophobic for a straight guy to not relish kissing another guy. Some guys refuse to take their shirts off on screen because . . . I don't know, but they get away with it. So my assumption is CE was very unhappy with the dark turn Adam was taking and had been unhappy for a long time with the writing and this was just the last straw. He's going to pay the price, and perhaps he knew the consequences when he made the decision and is prepared to live with them. All this discussion is part of the consequences of that choice. So be it.

[brimike]

Wow, this thread is scary. I hate to throw my two cents in, but I'm a glutton for punishment. LOL!

Okay, so we all know Nelson is a sh!t-stirrer. So who knows if we'll ever find out what really happened that day on set. However, in regards to Adam/Chris Engen and the gay story...

Here's my question. I keep trying to read between the lines, and for the life of me, I can't figure out whether Engen didn't like kissing another man or the way it was written that he would kiss a man.

There's been a lot of discussion on here about future story, and whether Adam is gay/bisexual, or diabolically heterosexual and just using Rafe and Rafe's sexuality to further his own agenda. Which leaves a real gray area in regards to whether or not Engen walked because "he refuses to kiss another man". If it's the former, then it becomes about Engen's personal opinions on homosexuality. But if it's the latter, then it's really about Engen's thoughts on the storyline and not a massive generalization he has about all homosexuals. Maybe his real issue wasn't the kiss, but why he was kissing him, and what it meant for his character and how it would be perceived.

Having said that, I do think if you take away all the discussions about sexual orientation and homophobia, what he did is STILL a breach of contract. And for that, his professional is definitely in question, even if his motivations end up being benign.

[SteveFrame]

And that is the only thing we can say for sure.

It all boils down we can say that he messed up in regards to his career at this point. I don't know what will happen to his career in the future. There are still plenty of avenues out there for religious actors these days. Frank Runyeon is a former soap star who is very very religious now and makes a very pretty good living doing religious plays and films. He is constantly booked, and even got a small role recently on AMC as the father of Reese for a few stints.

So I can't say 100% that this will hinder him in the sense of working, but for now he screwed up. And he will have to pay the penalties for doing so.

I don't know what his reasons are or what they will even turn out to be. If he did have a problem kissing a guy, I will disagree with him, but the more and more I think about I won't be one of the gays or bisexuals who blacklists him.

I didn't agree with what Jane Fonda did during the Vietnam War. I didn't blacklist her and I hated when other people did. That was her right as an American to do what she did.

I didn't see eye to eye with the Dixie Chicks but I didn't burn their albums or stop buying them simply because we disagreed even though I saw what they did as UnAmerican. But it was their right to do so. The people that blacklisted them and burned their albums were WRONG.

I would have never done what Paul Reubens (Pee Wee) did in public (at least I don't think so), but he didn't hurt me by doing it. I still don't see what he did as really that bad though. I hated to see the religious pundits of our society ruin the man for what he did.

There is all this talk about not tolerating homophobia and I have given a lot of thought overnight how I feel toward it.

In looking at the 2 ways that the world views homophobia - there is the simple being uneasy or uncomfortable with gays part of homophobia where homosexuality is just new to them. Good Morning America talked about it this morning, just calling it an uneasy feeling, because it is different. It is something that turns them off and thus makes them uneasy.

I think of it in the same way that straight guys like to watch 2 girls make out and they find that hot. I have absolutely no problem with lesbians at all, but I will tell you that watching two girls make out does make be uneasy. It does absolutely nothing for me at all, and when it comes on in a movie it makes me really uneasy. I guess by some of your definitions I am a homophobe, even though when I see two guys make out or a naked man believe me I don't get uneasy at all - some things on my body stand up and salute big time.

And then of course there is the other side of homophobia where they literally hate gays, want to deny us anything and just as soon have us off the face of the earth.

The first type of homophobia, I do belief that we need to learn to be tolerant of. The second type of homophobia there is no tolerance for.

The first type of homophobia for the most part does not hurt us at all. Many have that type of homophobia and are actually trying to help us. Homosexuality is different to them and they don't understand it but they try to and they are actually trying to help us get better things in life.

I know some of you will call me a traitor for saying that, but what is wrong with being tolerant with these people? Don't we ask the same of them. We aks them to suspend what is comfortable to them to give us a chance. Not to let the fact that we are different stand in the way of us being part of society and having the same things as everyone else.

As long as they are not harming us or denying us what is rightfully ours, why can we not be tolerant of their differences of belief.

Alot in this thread has been said about being uncomfortable and that if you are uncomfortable you hate something. Well I hate to break it to you, but you have just labeled over half of America as homophobes esp. the majority of straight men. Because you are going to find it rare to find a straight man out there that is going to tell he is 100% comfortable with 2 guys kissing. They probably have no qualms at all about homosexuality but let the two guys start making out in front of them and they are going to be uncomfortable with it. I would even be willing to venture a guess that Obama and Biden would even fall into that category. Does that make them a homophobe? I don't think so at all.

Just like Somerhadler, the kiss was not something he enjoyed at all, and he said that. He did the role and has proven he has no problem with gays but yet the kiss made him uncomfortable. To some he is still a homophobe.

So to answer the question that was asked of me earlier, about being intolerant of homophobia. For me my answer is that there is no tolerance for the type of homophobia where it leads someone to hate, violence and denying rights to others. But there should be tolerance for what some deem as homophobia where a person is just simply uncomfortable with homosexuality but does not go out of the way to harm or endanger homosexuals in any way. If we can't be intolerant of that and intolerant to them because they believe different than we do, then we are no better than the religious right that we criticize all the time. These folks are not trying to hurt us or rob us of anything, they just don't feel the same way as we do in regards to sexuality.

And who knows at this point Chris Engen could fall into that last category. Or as the poster before me said, his problem with the kiss could have nothing to do with the kiss but with the purpose of the kiss. HOnestly we just don't know.

[Taiah]

I still question if he really breached contract and would like that legitimately confirmed. The rumors of him being let go started months ago. Even IF he was unhappy or opposed to whatever, he's gotta kid to take care of aka responsibilities. So why risk a lawsuit, severly damage his career/rep, and throw himself in the employment line for only god knows how long? That's just awfully stupid.

[MarkH]

So, actually, this part of the story is very interesting to me.

Let's assume, for a moment, that Engen is NOT homophobic. Let's assume he LOVES the gays! Let's assume he DID walk, and the reason he walked is because he did not like Adam's direction.

And, by "direction", I'm going to label that as "sociopathic evil", willing to use anyone for his purposes...go to any lengths (including Adam's kissing a boy even if he doesn't like it)...and not having genuine feelings for anyone. I'd also include in this gaslighting a pregnant woman with a high-risk pregnancy.

Now, if Engen quit because of "dark Adam", that really is fascinating.

Because I'm going to assume 99% of actors would LOVE to play this darkness.

I can't assume that Engen was worried that "Adam was being written into a corner and it would cost him his job" because ... well ... he quit. So job securing must NOT have been a part of his motivation.

Thus, if we assume the homophobia angle is FALSE, then we have an actor who was SO INVESTED in the integrity of his character, so DISTURBED about the turn to darkness, and found it so difficult to justify the turn...that he had to quit.

That's somehow fascinating for me. I don't know if I could fight that hard. Months back, Tom Casiello blogged about 'drinking the koolaid'. Yup. Most of us have to drink it regularly...because we want to keep our jobs, and because we want to do our best despite those aspects of the job we don't like.

If homophobia is NOT part of this story, it means that Engen is unable to drink the koolaid. And that makes him either really strong or really stupid.

EXCELLENT question! Was he let go, or did he get fired? Man, the answer to that question would somehow explain a lot--at least in regards to Engen's alleged career-recklessness.

[Sapounopera]

I am very upset with my %^%R*$R* ex-boyfriend today. His stupid actions turned me into a lifeless soap freak.. He turned my life into B&B and the worst part is that I am Stephanie. Anyone here who wants to fight with me about Chris Engen?

[Rakesh]

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseact...logId=491217751

[MTSRocks]

This isn't a spoiler anymore, LoL.

[SteveFrame]

I never expected this much so soon.

I think he comes off as very genuine - much more than I ever expected he would.

I wonder if Y&R will issue a counterstatement now.

To me it draws a lot of what was said in the initial reports into question. Of course it all boils down to who you believe - Nelson Branco or Chris Engen.

[detroitpiston]

Time for some people to eat crow...