I have a tiny little problem with this whole positivity people vs. negativity people. First, that kind of distinction doesn't exist. I just play into that role of the Wicked Witch. You want me to be a hater? OK, I'll be the hater. It's much easier than to try to convince people otherwise.

Number two... If someone's so much enjoying it, I find it really, really hard — unbelievable, actually — that someone else who doesn't like it might spoil it for you. It just doesn't go that way: if you have an opinion and like it, there's almost no way someone can ruin it for you. Especially if you're a normal person who knows that tastes differ. In that sense, sometimes I'm not convinced people actually like it; they try desperately to, but they just fail. And yes, I see no sense in someone forcing oneself to like something. “I'm going to enjoy the ride no matter what”, blah, blah, and all that. There's no way you're gonna enjoy the ride no matter what.

Also, that whole argument "It's better than anything else on daytime" sucks, too. It might be better, but it doesn't mean it's good.

Word.

It is better than anything else on in daytime tho, but thats not why i like it. ITA what you are saying, thats how if elt about OLTL last year. was it the best of daytime? Sure. was it awfulk? Without a doubt. I actually like Y&R right now tho.

At this point I'd say give Rachel Kimsey a shot at Victoria!

Kimsey

But back on topic - how much would I have loved to see ANYBODY else go up against Peter Bergman in that Victoria scene today. Such a bummer...

Anyone else? Really? I mean....

it could be MUCH worse...

If people like the show they like it.

thank you.

and i find nothing wrong with discussing your like or dislike. i just dont understand why some people feel the need to make others believe what they do. your thoughts and views and opinions are yours, and theirs are theirs. discuss,m debate, but dont force the issue.

Victor is always a prick. Even when he isn't, he is.

LOL!

Since 1998? Honestly? Really?

Subjectivity yes, because this show is unraveling episode by episode to me. Too many members of this "symphony" haven't perfected the instrument they claimed to be experts at.

This is NOT the strongest this show has been over the past decade, they're way too many problems with it.

I dont remember a lot of pre 2000 (aside from what i have via youtube and tapes) but i do honestly feel this is without a doubt the best this has been this decade.

I dont feel it is unraveling at all. I actually feel like they are getting whats working and keeping it going and tweaking what doesnt to try and fix it. I also feel like most actions have reactions and storylines will play out for a very long time. I like it. Perfect? Far from it. But still good, entertaining, soap opera.

I very much doubt Chris Engen will be on Y&R for much longer, Adam is being ruined, and when Victor finds out the truth, his son will be either headed back to jail or 6 feet under.

I disagree.

I dont see CE or Adam going anywhere, anytime soon.

So basically it is your irrational bias that's causing you to call about 6 or more years crap just because of one character's presence? And, yet, LML wasn't that bad? MAB is better than Alden?

The thought of Thad Luckinbill being straight is very, very depressive.....

i know, me too.

I am totally gonna go all fanboy.. sorry! lol... I love Thad. As a person he is great. He has, as far as i know, always stopped for fans and is very personable. He is genuine too. He has never felt he was above soaps or anything like that, even when he found quite a bit of primetime work. I also think hes underrated as an actor. leading man? No. But the world isnt made up of just leading men. There needs to be supporting players too. and i feel Thad/JT is a perfect supporting player.

See the spoiler forum for another WTF spoiler, this one involving Raul's return.

I can't defend anything this show does anymore, and this spoiler is more proof of plot-driven crap that makes almost no sense, and I really have no emotional investment in it.

If you have no emotional investment and hate the show i have to ask.. why are you watching?

So basically it is your irrational bias that's causing you to call about 6 or more years crap just because of one character's presence? And, yet, LML wasn't that bad? MAB is better than Alden?

Edited May 14, 200916 yr by Sylph

LMAO

:lol:

Is Mark hurt and like a child follows those who hate Sylph and agrees with them? I thought I'd never see the day!!!

The LMAOs are not even sincere, they're just there for you to "ridicule" Sylph and his theses.

Edited May 14, 200916 yr by Sylph

Oh, I agree, she is not. I think she got lucky because she had inspiration for a few years, she came up with some great plots, and being next to Bell for decades taught her a lot of things about how to write a soap--at least, the technical parts. And it was a great few years. But it wasn't sustainable. She was lucky enough to sustain it for 3-4 years... MAB's already breaking down after a good October-March. And, even that was... ah, well, you know.

She got the job, partly, because she was very good in coordinating stuff.

I disagree.

I dont see CE or Adam going anywhere, anytime soon.

Good! I sure hope not. I admit it. I am swayed by a hot piece of soap peen. And I do NOT want Chris Engen's little furry ass to go.

Not to mention, the character of Adam (like his namesake Adam Carrington of Dynasty) is driving story. We need a bad-ass! A villain. We need Victor's SON. The only person who could arrogantly think he could hit Victor and get away with it! Thank goodness for Adam amid all the sycophants like Smugtoria, Nick, Nikki ("Thank you for letting me into the Ranch, Victor! And for talking to me without shouting!"), Estella ("Thank you for not totally firing me"), Rafe ("Thank you for not totally firing my aunt!"), JT ("Thank you for letting me be such an important part of da FAMILYzzzzzzzzzzzz") etc., etc.

The only concern I have is that Adam is isolated from other parts of the canvas. He should be bitching out Jack, romancing Heather, flirting with Mac (well, every Y&R guy has to) and sleeping with Colleen on the side. Work that blindness, Adam. "I can see with my hands..." etc.

Edited May 14, 200916 yr by Cat

Good! I sure hope not. I admit it. I am swayed by a hot piece of soap peen. And I do NOT want Chris Engen's little furry ass to go.

Not to mention, the character of Adam (like his namesake Adam Carrington of Dynasty) is driving story. We need a bad-ass! A villain. We need Victor's SON. The only person who could arrogantly think he could hit Victor and get away with it! Thank goodness for Adam amid all the sycophants like Smugtoria, Nick, Nikki ("Thank you for letting me into the Ranch, Victor! And for talking to me without shouting!"), Estella ("Thank you for not totally firing me"), Rafe ("Thank you for not totally firing my aunt!"), JT ("Thank you for letting me be such an important part of da FAMILYzzzzzzzzzzzz") etc., etc.

The only concern I have is that Adam is isolated from other parts of the canvas. He should be bitching out Jack, romancing Heather, flirting with Mac (well, every Y&R guy has to) and sleeping with Colleen on the side. Work that blindness, Adam. "I can see with my hands..." etc.

i agree.

i dont mind Adam's isolation from the world right now. hes a man on a mission.

but for the record... Mac/Adam?.. humm... could kinda be hawt. I could tots see Clem/Chris working it.

And colleen/Adam? again.. i could see it. id like it. i really wouldnt mind a JT/Victoria breakup where the family still liked JT (like what happened with Sam/Amanda on AW) and JT moved on into a quad with colleen/adam/heather/jt. because really... Vail & Thad? Hella sexy!!

Wow! I loved every single suggestion Cat made for the character of Adam

Does anybody else think that the Ashley storyline we are currently watching was what MAB had in mind for Sabrina after her marriage to Victor?

Does anybody else think that the Ashley storyline we are currently watching was what MAB had in mind for Sabrina after her marriage to Victor?

I hadn't thought of that. But you may well be right! Certainly MAB was anticipating a longer stay for Sabrina.

But what would have triggered Adam's sudden gaslighting of his stepmaw back then? That makes me wonder if Adam wasn't always supposed to be messed up and psycho. At least here we can sort of guess that he is pissed at Victor for abandoning him TWICE (once at birth, another after his fake-death when he kicked Adam out) and at Jack for making him take the fall for Diarygate.

And even with all that as a motive, I have to wonder: why Ashley? With Victor making goo-goo eyes at Nikki's photo, it's not like he's gonna care about Ashley sticking around after a while. And Jack will be miffed at best. He's all about Sharon and being a father to children who aren't his. Adam should have tried to strike at both of them directly.

I hadn't thought of that. But you may well be right! Certainly MAB was anticipating a longer stay for Sabrina.

But what would have triggered Adam's sudden gaslighting of his stepmaw back then? That makes me wonder if Adam wasn't always supposed to be messed up and psycho. At least here we can sort of guess that he is pissed at Victor for abandoning him TWICE (once at birth, another after his fake-death when he kicked Adam out) and at Jack for making him take the fall for Diarygate.

And even with all that as a motive, I have to wonder: why Ashley? With Victor making goo-goo eyes at Nikki's photo, it's not like he's gonna care about Ashley sticking around after a while. And Jack will be miffed at best. He's all about Sharon and being a father to children who aren't his. Adam should have tried to strike at both of them directly.

Once Billy Abbott returned to Genoa City, I got the feeling that TPTB didn't know what to do with Adam for some time. The idea to make him "evil" wasn't the original plan and I believe that some of his intended storylines were given to the very popular Billy Miller. Perhaps I am wrong though

Once Billy Abbott returned to Genoa City, I got the feeling that TPTB didn't know what to do with Adam for some time. The idea to make him "evil" wasn't the original plan and I believe that some of his intended storylines were given to the very popular Billy Miller. Perhaps I am wrong though

You know, ordinarily I would have said "no way!" CE was on the show a full year and a half before BM showed up. However, that scene last week where Billy went to grovel to Victor for a job and Victor basically shut the door in his face? I was like "Hey. Victor usually only does that to family members."

TPTB do love Miller, though, and it shows. I don't mind. I love him, too. I just hope they don't over-expose him.

idk why people were hating on AH, i actually found her impressive in her scenes yesterday.

I alo think TS is doing OKAY.

dont get me wrong, id much rather strong actress' in each role, but i dont think they are awful.

idk why people were hating on AH, i actually found her impressive in her scenes yesterday.

I alo think TS is doing OKAY.

dont get me wrong, id much rather strong actress' in each role, but i dont think they are awful.

I think that's the problem. These two signature characters...leaders of core families...should not be "okay". They should be "out of the park".

I think that's the problem. These two signature characters...leaders of core families...should not be "okay". They should be "out of the park".

I just dont think they are awful, or even bad.

they are just OK. and i do agree thats an issue.

but then again i have whack tast because IMHO Jess Walton was awful yesterday. And people say Laura Wright needs to learn how to play subtle. Damn.

but then again i have whack tast because IMHO Jess Walton was awful yesterday. And people say Laura Wright needs to learn how to play subtle. Damn.

You thought Chapman and Shackleford were better? They all played a broad sitcom...and I'm fine with that for an episode here and there. It had a lot more energy than Heinle.

Walton played something similarly broad with "the governor" earlier in the week. It was also over the top, but a bit of a laugh riot. That's fine with me...Jill had been such a mild non-entity for so long, I'm grateful for some ENERGY again.

That's part of why I like Amber and Kevin and Kay too. They command attention. They entertain.

You thought Chapman and Shackleford were better? They all played a broad sitcom...and I'm fine with that for an episode here and there. It had a lot more energy than Heinle.

Walton played something similarly broad with "the governor" earlier in the week. It was also over the top, but a bit of a laugh riot. That's fine with me...Jill had been such a mild non-entity for so long, I'm grateful for some ENERGY again.

That's part of why I like Amber and Kevin and Kay too. They command attention. They entertain.

No, they were all bad. but i found Walton awful.

I liekd her with the gov. that was cute.

these scenes, esp the acting, didnt command anything exept me wanting to FF