Gay characters on soaps

[nicknack]

Like I said, to me it doesn't feel like news. I do like the story and I think it is nicely done and for that it should be lauded. I just don't see the revolutionary aspect of it. To me, again, it just seems like a way of pussyfooting around having to write actual gay characters. And we don't even know if the story is not gonna go out with a whimper down the line.

Besides, it always feels a lot like straight navel gazing to me when soaps act like there could be nothing more revolutionary and earth shattering than gay people considering gay feelings Or straight people being in the gay position of either loving a gay person or being the non-primary sexuality choice for a gay person (like Reese normally is gay, but Zach is just sooooooo amazing and their connection is just so deep). Again, not that I dislike those stories, but on occasion I wish people would stop considering that gay representation. Wake me up when the hand wringing period of the straight characters if over.

[All My Shadows]

I believe that sexuality is a spectrum, but I may be more in the school of thought that it's a preference. Not that a person chooses their sexual orientation, but that they just have a natural inclination towards a certain type. Like how some people don't want to date a blonde or a brunet, or might not want a guy who is hairy, or a girl who is too skinny. Over time, you might start to like the attributes that you once shunned.

My problem with Otalia is mainly because there's never been any hint at all over the years that Olivia could be attracted to women. I'm not saying that she can't start to have an attraction to women now, but I'd want to see a substantial amount of time devoted to her coming to the conclusion that she's attracted to women. If it was a character whose background isn't as well-defined or hadn't been as illustrated, it'd be different, because then there'd be blanks to fill in.

[Mitch]

I think that Olivia's rather aggressive sexuality is a indicator that something else might be going on. All of her relationships have been based on a rather strong sexuality (she and Phillip, hubba, hubba, hubba those two were hot) or her quest for power, (Richard,Alan) or her giving someone a job (Josh, to get back at Reva) or, well, because GL had such a small cast (Buzz, which I would like to forget.) Remember, her first sexual experience was a rape, so that had to subvert and mess with her sex drive. She never has had a deep emotional connection to another man outside of her brother, and friendships with Buzz and Rick. I think that with Nat she is developing an emotional bond which is going to manifest itself in sexual expression cause, Olivia is Olivia.

Nat, well, she only "loved," one man, Gus, which is kind of strange, as he was gone for 20 years. I definatley think something is going on there.

[DRW50]

I agree, I was just trying to think of examples. I also think sometimes, once characters start to run out of stories, exploration of their sexuality can make for good drama. I know some people thought that might have made a good story for Andy on ATWT.

I thought her love for him was tied to her having a son with him. I never felt so much as passion from her to him.

[Paul Raven]

SOD 1992 OLTL

The spread of homophobia in Llanview coincided with two key events: first, the arrival of Andrew's father General Sloan Carpenter (Roy Thinnes), who had been diagnosed with Hodgkins disease and had come to town to make peace with his son. Andrew decided that while he had his father around he would try to make Sloan face the truth about his other son; Andrew's brother William, who had died of AIDS (William was also gay) The other key event was the appearance of trouble d gay teen Billy Douglas (Ryan Phillipe) who moved to town and quickly became friends with Joey. After he told Joey that he was gay, Joey was initially shocked and confused, but later accepted it and remained good friends with Billy.

One day, Billy made a decision: he was going to come out of the closet with his parents - he went to Andrew for advice. Andrew urged the boy to follow his heart and placed a hand reassuringly on Billy's shoulder. At that moment, troubled young troublemaker Marty Saybrooke (Susan Haskell) glanced in the door to the rectory and saw Billy and Andrew. Marty had been trying to seduce Andrew for weeks, but he had refused her advances. Jealous and furious to see Andrew caring for someone else when it appeared he didn't care about her, Marty formulated a horrific lie that turned the town upside-down. Going to Billy's parents, she told them that Andrew was a homosexual and was making advances toward Billy. Horrified, the Douglases immediately took action, demanding Andrew's resignation.

Once the rumor hit town, it spread like wildfire. Hate erupted everywhere - a rock was thrown through the community center ... Cassie, who was dating Andrew, received notes referring to Andrew as her "fag lover". Bigots threw dirt at Andrew and Sloan and spraypainted the rectory with graffiti. Sloan and the vestry board of St. James (Renee and Viki excluded) urged Andrew to come out and proclaim his heterosexuality. But, apart from maintaining that he did NOT try to molest Billy, Andrew refused to disclose that information. He argued that people's sexual preferences were nobody's business and that the right to privacy had to be respected. Furthermore, he arranged for the AIDS Quilt to come to Llanview and planned to add his brother's name to the quilt. This enraged Sloan and the members of the church who didn't want a "freak flag" displayed on the church lawn. But Andrew pushed on with his plans and Viki tried to get Sloan to accept them.

But the controversy refused to die out, as the new police commissioner asked lieutenant Maggie Vega (Yvette Lawrence) to name all the gay police officers in the squad. Andrew realized that the only way to end the hate was to get Marty Saybrooke to admit to her lies. But Marty refused to do so, turning self-destructive instead.

The day of the Quilt ceremony, an angry parishioner confronted Andrew outside the rectory and beat him, even as Andrew held up his Bible to defend himself. Hours later, a bruised and battered Andrew arrived at the church, ready to move on with the ceremony. But there was a crowd of church members on the steps, barring his entrance. He was no longer allowed in the church, they said, because he was a "pervert" and was seducing innocent children. Billy screamed at his parents to let Andrew through and he, Joey, Cassie and Andrew marched into the church. Sloan followed in hesitantly with Viki.

Inside the church, Andrew launched into a stirring tribute about the right to privacy, about the destructive power of hate and about the poor people who died of the AIDS virus. By the end of his sermon, Andrew had won a good portion of the crowd over. He had not, however, won over Mr. Douglas, who urged the parishioners to take back their church. It was then that Billy Douglas stood up and announced that he was gay. His father screamed for him to shut up and sit down, but Virginia Douglas rushed to her son and promised that she'd love him forever.

Andrew led the procession outside to the church lawn, where the AIDS ceremony was just getting underway. Among the tears of those who lost a friend or family member to AIDS, Andrew brought William's quilt to its new home. A hand fell on his shoulder. It was Sloan - he wanted to help lay the panel. Sloan then told Andrew all about his relationship with William. Sloan took William, as a boy, to the beach one day and taught him how to fly a kite. William was not a strong, athletic boy and the kite soon got caught in the trees. Sloan had been so enraged that his son had failed to master something so simple as a kite, he had slapped him. From that day forward, the bond between father and son had been broken. Crying and begging forgiveness from his beloved son William, Andrew and Viki comforted him. Then, together, they laid the quilt.

Llanview did not magically heal after that day - Billy still suffered bigotry at school - but Andrew had succeeded in turning Llanview from a town of fear and hate into a town of acceptance. After that day, Cassie and Andrew's relationship was stronger than ever, while Sloan and Viki were beginning to acknowledge feelings for each other

[Marc]

This might sound like a cheap, stereotypical suggestion...but a couple years ago on OLTL, Starr 'busted' Jack about his supposedly playing with their moms makeup. Jack is about 11 or 12 now. Imagine if in a few years they decide to make him a gay character. Of course, it would probably come with a cliche "coming out" s/l, but it still might be interesting if--of all people--Todd Manning had a gay son. lol

[Marc]

*duplicate post*

[leevo64]

Since Todd knows how it feels to be ostracized, I could see him fully accepting Jack's being gay. Could you imagine a scene where he goes to PFLAG with Blair? LOL.

[Phoenix11]

I don't think that this story is so much about Liv "turning gay" or being attracted to women. She fell in love with Natalia. And somewhere down the road if/when this relationship goes the way of most others on soaps, I don't see Liv deciding that she wants to be with women. And so far, GL has done an excellent job of writing this story. It's been about falling in love with someone, it just so happens that the other person is the same sex. That's why I'm glad that GL (and CC) are calling it a love story, not a gay story. That's just how I see it.

[Paul Raven]

SOD July 1996

Meet the man on whom AMC's Michael Delaney is based

by Carmen D. McDowell

Imagine being in Patricia Wilson's shoes. As she watched "All My Children" in her Desoto, MO, home last December she believed she was experiencing deja vu. Excited, Pat Wilson picked up the telephone and dialed her son Rodney 50 miles away, calling him out of his classroom in a St. Louis-area high school.

Imagine Rodney's initial shock with the intercom buzzed a few minutes before two that day, as he was teaching his last class. He recalls, "I was worried, actually, as never in six years of teaching had Mom called me with such urgency during the school day." When he returned her call, Rodney was intrigued with what his mother had to tell him.

Pat Wilson explained that she had just watched the character of Michael Delaney, Pine Valley High's favorite history teacher, come out to his students by pointing to a poster from the U.S. Holocaust Museum, indicating a pink triangle, and saying, "This one's for me, because I'm gay." She told her son, "He came out exactly as you did -- he used the same poster and said the same things. I can't believe that your experiences are being used on my soap!"

During spring of 1994, Rodney Wilson attended a National Education Association conference in Washington, and visited the Holocaust Museum. He returned to his classroom with a poster showing patches worn by prisoners in Nazi concentration camps. During a history lecture, he explained the meaning of each of the patches, indicated the pink triangle, and said, "If I had been in Europe during World War II, I could have been forced to wear this and could have been murdered, because I am gay."

An unlikely coincidence? Not exactly.

"We were familiar with Rodney Wilson's case," says Lorraine Broderick, AMC's head writer. Last summer, Broderick returned to the writing staff of AMC after a combined four-year stint at "Guiding Light" and "Another World," to find the idea of daytime's first gay teacher already in place. Writers Jeff Beldner, Hal Corley and Frederick Johnson were searching for a way to let viewers get to know another side of the much-loved character, Trevor Dillon (James Kiberd). The writers wanted to challenge Trevor and wondered what would happen if he had a gay brother-in-law. The idea of letting Trevor and others get to know Michael first, then discover he is gay, opened up fascinating possibilities for Trevor's character development.

Having Trevor's brother-in-law be a teacher was a way for viewers to further get to know the many new, younger characters on the show, and see them outside of the home, interacting at school. The writers wanted to show Michael being a good friend and mentor to Dixie Martin, a beloved teacher and a terrific uncle to Trevor's kids - all before the audience knew he is gay.

Once AMC's writing staff decided where they wanted to go with Michael, they turned to writer's associate and scriptwriter, Jane Murphy, for more information. She pulled together materials from all over the country. Newspaper articles on Rodney Wilson, as well as materials from Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) and the Gay Lesbian Straight Teachers Network (GLSTN), were some of the research Murphy shared with her colleagues.

Broderick and the other writers were captivated by what they read. Says Broderick, "Rodney, along with other gay teachers, really inspired us. What they have been able to accomplish, given their obstacles, gave us so much to think about when we were developing this story. It was gratifying to be able to write about things that had actually happened to real people."

Clearly, AMC was rewarded for its efforts. The soap received an award from the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) for the storyline. "Whenever you do a controversial story like this, you expect mail from both sides of the fence and you get it, but the audience response to Michael has been overwhelmingly positive," Broderick says. The writers think the show's recent Emmy win for Outstanding Writing was due, in part, to this story (the episode in which Michael revealed his sexual orientation to his class was submitted to the blue-ribbon panel for Emmy consideration).

At first, however, things didn't look so promising. Actor Chris Bruno (Michael) says that initially he was put off by the character of Michael because he is gay. Bruno knew he would be taking on the extra responsibility of being seen as more than an actor, but also as a voice for an issue or a community.

Even though he knew it was going to be a challenge, he decided to go for it. "I recognized that this would be part of my own growth experience, and I just took a deep breath and went forward." On the day that Michael was going to come out, he knew already that something in his attitude had changed. "It wasn't a big deal for me anymore."

Then the fan mail began to arrive - fans cheering him on, letters from kids telling Bruno that they would rather commit suicide than tell their parents about their homosexuality, notes from gay teachers who were considering coming out to their classes. He has been pleasantly surprised at the positive reaction. Also among the mail have been letters with a religious spin. Some have condemned homosexuality and the actor for taking on the role. Some of his favorites, however, have been from clergy members who have written to thank him for helping to pass along the word of God: "That we should love our fellow man," says Bruno.

When Delaney came out in his classroom, one student got up and left, apparently upset. Michael then went through public humiliation, a firing, harassment, and most tragically, the loss of a sister by a bullet meant for him.

The reaction in St. Louis paralleled Pine Valley's in some respects. Just as Michael's students had differing and strong reactions to Michael Delaney's announcement, so did Rodney Wilson's students. According to Rodney, one student responded, "I respect you a lot for having the courage to say what you just said." Others chimed in. At that point, Wilson's students broke into applause. Recalls Wilson, One student looked as though she was going to cry. I spoke with her later, and she told me she had gay friends who had lost friends and suffered discrimination because of coming out."

But like Michael, Rodney also experienced negative consequences. Angry parents converged on a Mehlville School Board meeting, demanding to know whether homosexuality would be taught at their high school. Yet the heated confrontations between Michael and Jason Sheffield did not reflect Rodney's experience. "No parent has complained my principal," says Wilson. Just as Delaney had the word "fag" scrawled on his chalkboard, someone slid a piece of paper under the door of Wilson's classroom scribbled with the same word.

Rodney Wilson's classroom is no ordinary place, and not just because the teacher is openly gay. Overhead, the flags of dozens of countries flood the room with color. The walls are plastered with posters, maps and signs with political slogans. U.S. presidents, Martin Luther King Jr. and Bette Davis are some of the many recognizable faces that adorn the room. On the chalkboard in the back of the room hangs the now familiar poster of the patches worn by Nazi prisoners from the Holocaust museum. Near the door of Mehlville High School Classroom 115, a bulletin board features individual photos of students near a grave marker. "That's for extra credit. Students who go to the grave of famous former slave Dred Scott -- buried here in St. Louis -- get extra points, if they bring me proof of their visit," Rodney adds with a smile.

Rodney proudly points to the drawings of presidents and other notable figures that students have given him over his six years of teaching history at Mehlville High School. In March of 1994, Wilson did not yet have tenure, and the school could have opted not to renew his contract. "My principal was actually very supportive," says Rodney, whose case has been featured in an Associated Press article published worldwide and on a fall 1994 segment of "Dateline NBC." In the spring of 1995, Rodney received tenure.

What does he think of having a part of his life on television? "I was intrigued by it and felt a little uncomfortable at first," he admits. "People who had never met me knew something about me." However, Wilson likes the Michael character, and is quick to praise the storyline. "It has been very well done. I commend the writers of 'All My Children' for the care with which they have brought this story to life." Rodney hopes that Michael will continue to be completely integrated into his community and school, as he has been. "This story can only help people understand what it means to be gay and what the gays-in-the-classroom debate is all about."

Pat Wilson agrees with her son. "I am really glad that they've added Michael to my show, and they've done such a good job bringing Rodney's experiences to life."

[NorrthCafe]

Being mistrustful of daytime writers, I have to wonder if they're intentionally leaving open the question of whether or not sexuality is a 'choice', given the way all but Nuke's storylines are so ill-defined. Are they placating fans who are uncomfortable with gay characters? If it's a choice, that leaves writers with the option of changing characters' preferences for partners in either direction.

Does that leave the door open for ATWT's Luke to "explore" and become interested in women, at some point? Would he become a gay male who occasionally dates women? How would that be perceived by viewers?

The treatment of women's sexuality as flexible is historical in context but offensive in so many ways. Women's sexuality just isn't taken seriously - straight or lesbian. (I have a friend who didn't come out as bisexual until her later 30s because she believed no one would take her seriously. Her parents always thought she was going through 'rebellious phases' when she dated women -they thought she was rejected her Catholic upbringing. She spent some time 'passing' as straight, her term not mine, because she was afraid of how she'd be perceived - if the rest of the world would view her as her parents did).

It makes me uncomfortable that writers treat lesbians in daytime as "secretly bisexual" or as "toys". They still indulge male fantasies using them- I'm thinking of Frons' comments on AMC's lesbians being 'cuter' and then planning what seems like a sham wedding for the sake of having AMC on the history books. I think it's pathetic that Bianca has NEVER had a partner who is and always was a lesbian - feeling comfortable with her identity (Reese is clearly not, Frankie wasn't, Maggie wasn't initially, Lena wasn't -until later). Each of her partners was in love with a man first, and then fell for her - but the door was left open that they would/could 'go back' if they wanted. It leaves the writers the flexibility to decide if they want to end the lesbian storyline and 'mainstream' the character, marginalizing sexual orientation, again. (Note, no such issues with Luke and Noah)

I see Otalia headed in the direction of Binks and <insert partner>. I like them. I think they're interesting and have the potential to be one of GL's most memorable couples (Beth and Phillip, Gus and Harley, Natalia and Olivia,J osh and Reva, Alexandra and Fletcher... HA! Just joking on the last one...) I just wonder if the writers are serious about them as a couple and are willing to put the work into them they deserve as they figure out what's between them. Time will tell.

[DRW50]

If actors have chemistry, there will always be fans who will go along with a relationship. Like on AMC, when a lot of fans wanted Kevin and Kelsey together even when the storyline insisted Kevin was gay and had no feelings for Kelsey beyond friendship.

I think most fans are fine with Luke as gay and I think there would be a lot of backlash if he suddenly became interested in women, especially if the story was obviously being done just to make him a more "viable" character (like what happened to Jodie on Soap). If he did become interested in women then I think it would be a full-fledged relationship and he'd probably never go back to men. They wouldn't go there unless they were going to go there 100%. I think they also wouldn't do that unless someone besides Van was playing the role, because he's committed to being a gay Luke and he's identified by fans in that way.

I'm very cynical of anything from ATWT but I don't think Passante or Goutman will make Luke have interest in women. Later writers or producers, I don't know.

.

Bianca's coming out was mostly about Erica, and a social issue story. I think they were surprised by how much the lesbian Bianca (instead of just Erica's daughter Bianca) came to matter to fans, and all their stories since then have been about trying to work a way around her lesbianism. The character has become a suffocating caricature because of their fears.

I think the Otalia storyline is much more about character development than about a social issue story. They've managed to slowly, believably tell a story of friendship possibly turning into love. They've done what AMC tried and failed to do in that Zarf mess by saying sexuality isn't about being gay or straight but about falling in love with another person. I think if Olivia and Natalia do become a couple, and stay together, then they'd probably become much more of a couple than Bianca and her love interests have ever been, just because P&G tends to go more in a couply direction, as they have with Nuke. I don't see the show ever having any strong romance between Olivia and Natalia, but I think, even now, they seem much more natural as a couple than most of what Bianca's had.

[NorrthCafe]

Carl, I can see Olivia and Natalia as a strong romance in the long run, but only because the writers haven't rushed them. I don't think the writing team that started the romance took their time because they respected where the couple was going, but out of caution - fear of fan reaction. The 'new team' (or what feels like a new team) will respect the couple, I think.

Your point about Luke is exactly the point I was making. I think most fans would protest a change in his character because he's a symbol of progress in daytime and it would feel like regression to change him. I also think that being male, Luke's sexuality is taken more seriously by writers.

Women, straight or gay, are just tools to help writers tell whatever storyline they want to tell. I think that's my concern about Otalia (again, less of a concern now that I've seen Team 2 in action). I don't want them to be about the writers wanting to tell a 'gay storyline' without a commitment to gay characters (or at least characters who identify as bisexual). 32 years after Kate Chancellor and Joanne Curtis, I think daytime can do better than that. Without the commitment to gay characters it feels like a cheap way to tell the story and "get it over with".

BTW, The View (on ABC) is reporting there was negative fan reaction to the Rianca wedding (no mention of how many people wanted to hang Reese by her toes for cheating on Binks). WHY report that at all? Is there a storyline for which there isn't some negative reaction? GMAB! Why do TPTB report that kind of stuff?

[DRW50]

I think daytime eventually has to delve into stories where commitment to gay characters isn't the main issue, where the emotion comes first. They started the move when they had Bianca in so many stories which just weren't about her being gay, but this was at the cost of her love life. Otalia is an emotional story without the more clinical undertones some social issue stories have, yet I think they've done in moments like the fallout from My Two Mommies they've done a better job addressing some of what same-sex couples go through than most other gay relationships I've seen on TV lately.

So what I'm saying is I think just by telling a love story they're doing a lot to help viewers accept a same-sex couple, even if they aren't necessarily telling a story where the characters are gay. I'd like to see GL, and other soaps, introduce gay characters, and then see them in all kinds of stories, but I like the way this storyline has been handled. I think it's much less likely to create a knee-jerk negative reaction in some fans. I know if GL were a higher-rated soap this story probably never would have happened, but I still think everything about this story is very, very GL, a new twist on classic soap. That's what GL used to be known for.

I don't watch The View very often but I've never seen them as very progressive. I remember when they had an ex-gay on there a few years back and Meredith Viera was the only one who even tried to question what he was saying.

I'm surprised anyone who has a problem with gay couples would object to Rinks. They do more to reinforce negative images of gay families than James Dobson ever could.

[NorrthCafe]

They reported fan 'outrage' at the marriage, stating that you can't have two women marry. It doesn't sound like it's possible that those statement accurately reflected most fan feedback. As stated above, the real fan objection I've read was over Reese's betrayal of Binks. I also think ABC used the limited 'outrage' as a way of getting more notice. Their ratings haven't changed!

No one mentioned how many fans called in favor of the wedding,which is odd, I think. IMO, ABC used its fans in the worst ways possible between publicizing the fake outrage and their treatment of Bianca. Some of us have followed Bianca and Erica's relationship from the time she was born (remember the old days of Kendall, young Binks, and Erica when no one knew who Kendall was?) Long term fans deserved more than what ended up feeling like a publicity stunt.

As for your other comments, agreed. I see that with Nuke. The writers didn't seem to know how to write for Nuke if there wasn't some issue of sexuality. They were beyond that. It looks like things have changed. I'm looking forward to the upcoming storyline for them. I'm looking forward to seeing what Jake and Van do with it.