Yet another article about the demise of the genre but a couple of things stood out to me. The first I see as inevitable and the second I'm still processing.

The financial crisis is hurting daytime soaps more than other shows, and may well doom them. Not so long ago, there were 16 soaps. Today, there are eight—with more cancellations seemingly imminent in the face of TiVo, D.V.R.'s, decreased market share, declining ratings, and the loss of financially pressed auto dealers as local advertisers.

"I see this moment as the turning point for soaps," a top CBS executive told me. "No format has been hit harder than daytime serials."

The executive says that within the next two months the network plans to dramatically slash the licensing fees it pays to the independent production companies that make its soaps. NBC recently did the same to the fees paid for its lone entry, Days of Our Lives—which have recently run about $1.8 million a week.

Unfortunately for advertisers, network-commissioned surveys have found that a large segment of the soap audience is poor, middle-aged African-American women. "That's definitely not the demo sponsors are targeting," says a network exec.

http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/top-...-of-Soap-Operas

Ouch to the first. I am a Bell soap viewer.

The second really highlights what kind of nasty people are running the networks. God forbid advertisers appeal to African American women. Why, that might scare off the white customers.

Edited January 13, 200916 yr by Cat

Y&R should be doing ok, even with less viewers but apparently a wide online following judging it's always amongst the top-watched shows at CBS.com

But B&B, ATWT and GL could really lose some money from this...

That last part is not about African American women. Yes that was mentioned but you could put any race in between the two words taht really matter.

Poor and Middle Aged

It could be poor and middle aged white women, Latino, green, blue, fat, blonde - it don't matter. If they are poor and middle aged advertisers don't want them.

I think every genre but TV Dramas are dying. Sitcoms are virtually dead. Soaps are getting on their last legs. Something can be done to prevent it.

If shows would quit hiring hacks to write and if shows would start doing character driven storylines instead of plot points, people might tune into watch.

I read an article that tv is starting to look beyond the 18-49 demographic

These were key points to me:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-et-de...,0,677271.story

Yet there are growing signs that network TV is moving away from its relentless focus on demos -- and that could have a huge influence on future programming. There's a growing sense in the industry that the 18-to-49 category's importance to marketers may be wildly overblown. Moreover, in an age of DVRs, multichannel systems and increasingly tiny ratings, the demo obsession may itself be pushing down ratings, exacerbating the industry's problems and excluding from consideration too many programs that could have broad appeal.

That last part is not about African American women. Yes that was mentioned but you could put any race in between the two words taht really matter.

Poor and Middle Aged

It could be poor and middle aged white women, Latino, green, blue, fat, blonde - it don't matter. If they are poor and middle aged advertisers don't want them.

They could have but they didn't. Yes, I agree poor and middle aged are not an appealing demographic but in the face of the disappearance of minority actors across daytime tv I find the statement troubling.

I think every genre but TV Dramas are dying. Sitcoms are virtually dead. Soaps are getting on their last legs. Something can be done to prevent it.

If shows would quit hiring hacks to write and if shows would start doing character driven storylines instead of plot points, people might tune into watch.

I read an article that tv is starting to look beyond the 18-49 demographic

These were key points to me:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-et-de...,0,677271.story

Can the networks really let go of their 18-49 obsession? It never made sense to me how you can have millions of viewers but the only ones who matter are the few hundred thousand of a certain age.

Edited January 13, 200916 yr by allatwitter

Ouch to the first. I am a Bell soap viewer.

The second really highlights what kind of nasty people are running the networks. God forbid advertisers appeal to African American women. Why, that might scare off the white customers.

That is a little unfair to the advertisers. Their job is to reach people with money to spend and by definition poor people, be they black or white, or not the demo they desire. Golf probably has the best demo of all, wealthy white men. The answer here is not for the advertisers to retool their product to appeal to poor people, but for soaps to retool their product to appeal to people who have money to burn. Or, they need to come up with a system like the BBC used to where it is commercial free and everyone pays money and the network can now produce programming without worries about demos, advertisers and ad rates.

They could have but they didn't. Yes, I agree poor and middle aged are not an appealing demographic but in the face of the disappearance of minority actors across daytime tv I find the statement troubling.

The key word there is demo. They didn't have to change out the minority. The reason I know that the key words are poor and middle aged is because look at the demos that advertisers ask Nielsen to report. There are ones for the age but not for race.

Even on focus groups that I participate in and even the NBC viewer panel, you can pass on revealing your race but you cannot pass on revealing your age or your income level.

Yes Miniority Actors are disappearing but so are middle aged women and so are the poor on soaps. All 3 are endangered species on the soaps. Even the older actresses taht do stay are forced to appear younger or their characters are deaged.

So all 3 are disappearing. There used to be poor people on soaps but everybody now is upper middle class or rich. Even the ones they try to make appear poor have nothing in common with real poor people.

That is a little unfair to the advertisers. Their job is to reach people with money to spend and by definition poor people, be they black or white, or not the demo they desire. Golf probably has the best demo of all, wealthy white men. The answer here is not for the advertisers to retool their product to appeal to poor people, but for soaps to retool their product to appeal to people who have money to burn. Or, they need to come up with a system like the BBC used to where it is commercial free and everyone pays money and the network can now produce programming without worries about demos, advertisers and ad rates.

I think in the future that is what we will be looking at. I think more and more series will go to channels like HBO where the person will have to pay a fee to get them.

More of the cable channels are already beginning to charge higher fees and are being moved off basic cable. We almost lost 17 channels recently in addition to the 6 we had already lost this year. Two of the 6 we did lose were SoapNet and Game Show Network which have been part of our basic cable package for 10 or more years. Now they require an additional fee in order to get them.

I thought the future was product placement but I am now convinced it will be fee based.

Zendall, you are absolutely right, and since this is a soap board it makes sense that it isn't discussed more often, but sitcoms have also sucked hard for a long time now. I watch mostly reruns these days, and a part of me won't let myself get into new primetime dramas either b/c I fear they'll be yanked. I think if you go into every new show like it's a novella, knowing that it will soon come to end, that may sorta help.

Sitcoms have died before though. Sitcoms seem to have always gone in spurts. The were the bread and butter of TV in the 50's through the mid 70's and then pretty much disappeared except for a few until Cosby gave a new birth to them.

So them dying again is not a surprise to me. When Cobsy gave a rebirth to them drama is the one that took a hit again.

Sitcoms have died before though. Sitcoms seem to have always gone in spurts. The were the bread and butter of TV in the 50's through the mid 70's and then pretty much disappeared except for a few until Cosby gave a new birth to them.

So them dying again is not a surprise to me. When Cobsy gave a rebirth to them drama is the one that took a hit again.

Yeah, I remember that. 1988 or so. Cosby, then Family Ties (later A Different World). NBC focused almost exclusively on comedies and absolutely dominated, right through to the late 90s with its Comedy Combos. Now it is falling out of favor, and so are comedies.

I still say move soaps to the patch of pre-Primetime between 5-8pm. Then more people would watch. Heck, look at Canada was its post 5pm Y&R slots. Look at the rest of the world watching their daily soaps between 6-9pm. I don't understand why the Big Three networks cannot grasp this idea.

Although "Big Three Networks" is such a misnomer. It is they who are really dying, not the soap genre by itself. NBC already has one foot in the grave.

If one of them would ever do that they would see that it would work. Anything to counteract the overabundance of news at that time.

Here is the Middle Tennessee area on the 3 main networks from 4 p.m. to 7:00 on the 3 major affiliates it is all news except for 30 minutes of Wheel of Fortune on the ABC affiliate and on the NBC affiliate they have Oprah at 4:00 for an hour.

It is overkill. And most of the time the local news which shows at 4:00, 4:30, 5:00 and then again at 6:00 for an hour are just repeats of the same thing for 30 minutes.

If one of them would ever do that they would see that it would work. Anything to counteract the overabundance of news at that time.

Here is the Middle Tennessee area on the 3 main networks from 4 p.m. to 7:00 on the 3 major affiliates it is all news except for 30 minutes of Wheel of Fortune on the ABC affiliate and on the NBC affiliate they have Oprah at 4:00 for an hour.

It is overkill. And most of the time the local news which shows at 4:00, 4:30, 5:00 and then again at 6:00 for an hour are just repeats of the same thing for 30 minutes.

I'd be interested to see how soaps would do if they aired in an early evening timeslot too. I think we're at the point where the solution is good storylines and then bigger audiences. It has to go the other way around. Good storylines aren't bringing in audiences much at all, and I think two reasons for the decline in ratings are terribly underestimated: the lack of people at home during the daytime, as opposed to 30-40 years ago, and the biggest of them all (and something that I always see mentioned by TPTBs yet brushed aside by fans) is the fact that just as soon as 20 years ago, there weren't hundreds of TV channels to chose from. If people can watch their favorite primetime shows all day long on cable, why would they even give soaps a chance AT ALL?

Game shows fell out of favor in daytime in the early 1990s, yet that genre still flourishes, and still in its traditional sense (no need for changes in "production models" and pointlessness like that). The only difference is that now, instead of being restricted to just airing in daytime, they get their highest numbers in syndicated pre-primetime slots, and most of them still air in syndicated daytime slots as well.

Looking only at the stations that I get from New Orleans, the time between the end of GL/GH and the beginning of primetime is mostly news and game shows. CBS does Phil, Oprah, an hour and a half of news, and "Inside Edition." NBC begins an hour earlier with The Doctors, Maury, an hour of Judge Judy, an hour and a half of news, and "Entertainment Tonight." ABC does two hours of game shows Family Feud, Trivial Pursuit, Deal or No Deal, and another Feud), an hour and a half of news, and then another DOND. The two Baton Rouge stations we get are different. The CBS station does The Doctors, Y&R, an hour and a half of news, and then Millionaire. The ABC station does Dr. Phil, news, Jeopady!, an hour and a half of news, and Wheel.

So, because I have the time to do some calculations lol, I figure that of 12 hours of programming (not counting the BR stations and not counting the extra NBC hour), that's four and a half hours of news, two and a half hours of game shows, three hours of talk shows, an hour of courtroom stuff, and an hour's worth of newsmagazines. What do I get from that? The only way soaps could ever find a way into the early evening slot is if the affiliates themselves decide to go against the network and put the shows there (like Y&R), the networks give up daytime hours in exchange for early evening hours, or if the soaps were turned over to syndication, which would mean drastic budget cuts.

The nightly newscasts became sorta obsolete a long, long time ago. You have 24-hour news networks now, a couple of which are already owned by major networks, and when you have an hour of local news surrounding them on virtually every station around the country, who watches them besides the hardcore politics fanatics? Not to mention the impact that the internet has on that industry. I'd really be interested to know what the ratings for those shows are. They're no doubt much higher than soaps because of their timeslot, I'm sure, but I wonder if the networks are pleased with how they perform.

Prepare for a new "production model" from the rest of the soaps now.