2009: The Directors and Writers Thread

[Sylph]

What does it matter when is the proof from? When it's something so universal like no plot without character? And the other way around?

Oh, yes they could. They wouldn't satisfy you because you have a preset, unchangeable, fixed mindset, so set in its ways that there is no Y&R without people you like (but there is Y&R without Brittany). Marland, Lemay and Bell would have evolved with the times. That is actually precisely what Lemay did: he transformed AW from outdated Irnaesque soap into a modern world from the 70s soap where a once proud and stoical mother can turn into an alcoholic.

Yeah, perhaps. But they long for what? For what soaps used to be. And that means: how soaps were so good at depicting the "real" life and "real" problems people have. How you could identify with characters... How they managed to soothe your pain... Not nostalgia for Katherine Chancellor from the 80s. Now... They are in a totally weirdo universe of their own.

Y&R is a deadly dull, recycled stories filled... Something.

[dm.]

Sorry, I just had to.

[Sylph]

Yeah... Whatever. Of course you had to because the minute Y&R thread dies a bit, you come in and ask something and pandemonium erupts, all sorts of people want their opinion heard on what your speculation about the show is. Sorry, I had to.

[dm.]

Really? I thought nobody cared.

I'm not attacking you, geez.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

This thread has become a farce...

In regards to story, didn't Shakespeare say there were only 7 types of stories to tell anyway?

1. (Wo)man vs. nature

2. (Wo)man vs. man

3. (Wo)man vs. the environment

4. (Wo)man vs. machines/technology

5. (Wo)man vs. the supernatural

6. (Wo)man vs. self

7. (Wo)man vs. God/religion

[Sylph]

I know you're not. No one said people didn't care.

Why?

[brimike]

Yup. And it's so true. Which is why I can't complain if a soap tells a cliched story... as long as they find a way to tell it that isn't cliched.

[R Sinclair]

Anyway...

I would love to know what these layouts consist of. Being that I'm self-taught, I love any extra tid-bit of information to help me advance in my own personal methods.

[SouthOfSoap]

To use statistical speak, i think you have a case of sampling error here not matching the underlying population you're trying to sample from. Its not even a case of the internet/non-internet viewer stratification. It seems most of the criticisms of DOOL (since its the example you use) are from people who are not even watching it. Its evident in the criticisms regarding facts rather than opinions. I also think people who are enjoying the show are keeping quiet about it on SON because the throwback replies aren't based on whats on screen, but rather the usual fashionable kneejerk responses. For example, people claim newbies like Melanie are eating the show up at teh expense of vets, yet Melanie is rarely on for more than 2 days a week and has screen time amounting to about 10 minutes or less spread over an episode. I could go on forever about this, but rather than bore you about a show you don't watch, I'll say you should consider the source/bias/motivation for people's statements to get a clearer picture. Writing may be important for rating success - trying to guage that from a variety of message boards won't guide you on that - emperically or qualitatively.

However that being said, I love your analyses and opinions in general

Sorry for all the spelling/grammar mistakes...

[MarkH]

Just to say, this is the kind of criticism/dialogue I love! It is reasoned, and makes a point in a way I can understand and respond to.

It also highlights a concern of mine--about myself. How can I (and others) talk about these shows unless I watch them all?

I really do try...but it is sampling. I try to watch some of AMC/OLTL/GH/Days on Soapnet most nights...but realistically, it is seldom more than 15 minutes of 1-2 shows a night. I try to follow GL/ATWT via CBS.com, but again, that's probably only 1 day/week, and these days it is only GL.

Only Y&R (and, again, B& get my nightly attention. (Male, 44, who time shifts. Advertisers won't give much of a sh!t there).

It raises a great question: Can we with any credibility discuss the soaps we do not regularly watch?

[Toups]

Man, I'm always late to the party!

Who cares if he doesn't reply to you right away. What's the problem if he takes a couple days to reply? This is the second time I've seen you do this.

Same here with you, man. That's why I'm replying to all this crap.

How was it a fatal blow? The show "evolved" and it went on to air 30+ years later. If not for Monty, GH probably would've been cancelled.

And here you are, saying "I told you so" with your nose in the air right? If people start to hate Y&R in a couple of months, I bet you'll be like, "Hey, what took you guys so long to realize MAB was not a good writer?" How about maybe at the time, we enjoyed Ron's writing, or MAB's writing. Are we not allowed to change our opinions?

As for as Ron, his material from Sept 07 to Mid Feb 08 was some of the best soap writing I've ever seen. Yeah, the material now isn't as good as before.

Just say what you have to say in the Y&R thread. You don't need to act like "ohh....I'm in the minority...so I'm not going to post." Just post your thoughts on the show.

That's because when someone has a good response, you simply dismiss it. You throw your punch and then run away. I'm still waiting for you to come up with a reason why you think I'm a "fake" because I like Casiello and want the best for him. You're still not going reply to that, right? Yeah, I thought so.

Also, how I come I never see you go into specifics on why you're not like Y&R (or OLTL before). You just make general statements. I'm guess you're not watching the show? And that's why you never join us in the actual discussion of what's happening?

[Toups]

That's because most of the "movements" were already done in late 2007 and 2008. Ron pretty much has his team set now.

[Bright Eyes]

Too bad that set team is mediocre at best

[rangethatrover]

No. To have any credibility to discuss current shows i feel you have to watch at least a 2 episodes a week.

B&B and GH are the shows that stay on for me just because they are after OLTL and Y&R, I don't really pay attention to them, all I know is that GH is the ugliest soap on the air and B&B is the dumbest show on the planet.

[rangethatrover]

Yeah, that's why I asked. It is a very uneven team. I have seen each of them do excellent episodes though, even Poteet Lisanti and Schock. That Sharon Lennon sp? started out with some terrible scripts but she has had some good ones since. For some reason I always love Aida Croal's scripts. Is she still writing for OLTL?