The Politics Thread

[marceline]

Yeah but she's had a rough couple of weeks.

[DRW50]

I hate this [!@#$%^&*]

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/kansas_birther_kris_kobach.php?ref=fpa

[Wales2004]

That may be true but people are also taught stereotypes. Kids are raised to believe that they are different from other people and that those people will either resent them or hate them because of those differences. It's no different from parents insisting their sons not cry because that will make a boy less of a man. Kids are taught to be racialists in much the same way with various justifications. It's one thing for someone else to believe stereotypes about certain individuals but quite another for those individuals to perpetuate stereotypes about themselves. Society likes to overlook the self-steterotyping because that truth would distract from the other.

Your rebuttals are valid but I also happen to see some validity in those statements as well.

I find race discussions non-productive because they usually amount to the blame game with one side pointing the finger at the other and neither being able to see an ounce of truth in the other's position. There is this insistence that there can only be one truth when it comes to racism, racialism et al and that's not the case. If one girl grows up in Beverly Hills and another grows up on the east side of Los Angeles, they're likely to have completely different experiences because of their different environments. In fact, two girls who live next to each other or in the same house can experience life differently but people will be adamant that if they happen to be black that they are the same. The ones who don't fit the stereotype are "accused" of not being black or "acting white."

On the one hand you have stock responses from white people:

--I am not racist because I don't see in color and I don't care if you're red, brown, black, white or piurple.

--my neighbor (who I apparently allow to live near me) is black, or my co-worker is black or someone else with whom I don't normally socialize is black but I talk to that person so I'm not a racist

--Barack Obama is president so racism is over (even though I would never have voted for someone like him)

and when anyone claims that black people can be racist too then someone black may deny it on the basis that only people in positions of power can be racist and since black people are not in positions of power they cannot be racist which isn't true. Black racists do exist. They are usually referred to when white racists want to deflect so they point out that there are black people who are just as ignorant about race as they are--as if that's a good thing.

Then you have black people who seem to believe that all white people do is sit around and plot the demise of the black man. I've seen some of the most ridiculous things blamed on white people and the first place some people go is not to the stupid thing they did to cause their problems but to white people and slavery is the root of every problem, according to some.

There's plenty of blame to go around but that's been the way for quite a long time and where has that gotten anyone. It might help if people are honest about their own prejudices instead of keeping them at point just below the surface that causes them to go to that place first when they get a tad bit stressed or angry. This is why I love the movie Crash so much. It's a good depiction of how people walk around oblivious to their own discriminatory ways but are so easily able to hone in on someone else's and become outraged about the same fault as theirs in another because theirs is, of course, justified.

[quartermainefan]

True, but lets face it, if you read about a serial killer that popped up and had yet to be caught, the common assumption will be it is a white male loner. And that wouldn't be an unfair crazy assumption given the roll call of serial killers in history. It's not that white men tend to be serial killers, it is that serial killers tend to be white men. Now I know someone reading this post and my previous post will think I am a fool because everyone is individual it is is wrong to reach conclusions, but that logic only works in Utopia. If you show me Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz, The Unabomber and Jeffrey Dahmer and then ask me to guess the profile of the mystery guest serial killer behind the curtain, I am going to guess white male.

[Wales2004]

There's no problem with guessing based on history. Assuming that a serial killer is likely to be a white male is radically different than believing that all white males are geneticaly disposed to being serial killers. Because they are white, society is more likely to profile a serial killer in general as iin what type of characteristics a serial has as opposed to basing it on race. Let me try another example. The U.S. Track and Field team has primarily black sprinters on it and they generally dominate in world competition. If the U.S. sprinters were white and won world events regularly, is it likely that anyone would question why white athletes are dominant in sprinting events and try to come up with some genetic reason why? I would say not because no one questioned when they won events before. Yet the question arises for black athletes which leads certain people to make it a genetic affair. So then you have people believing that slavery produced this master race of black American athletes even though every black American is not a sprinter or anywhere close to being one. Other athletes train to excel in their particular sport but black people are just naturally gifted because the idea of a black person having to work hard at something is unfathomable. Yet if a bunch of black American kids turned out b be geniuses, that wouldn't be blamed on genetics. And hard work would not be credited. In fact, there'd probably be some sort of inquisition made since some would be convinced that it't not at all possible that they could be geniuses.

I work on my prejudices so little by little I make less assumptions about people I don't know. Things such as assuming that you know what a person looks like based on a name on a piece of paper or a voice over the phone. Or assuming what a person will be like based on the person's look. Our society encourages that sort of thing so it's harder to resist.

[JackPeyton]

This is a beautiful, spot on, perfect post that even Olivia Pope would applaud you on. Bravo.

Now, I have to ask something... why would any minority or middle class person ever, ever even think about voting for Romney? I seriously am wondering this because wow does he seem awful and like the worst pick possible. I say this as an independent who voted for McCain last election.

[JackPeyton]

I agree.

Not to mention its too late to make it for this election. A lot of people have invalid or no ID's and I know in parts of CA it can take months to get a new one. I know a loot of elderly peopel with a old license that just expiring or is about to and they dont have the means/money or sometimes need/desire to get a new one. Also, while its awful to drink and drive and get a DUI and im not saying we should feel sorry for those who do, but in CA they take your license that day so does that mean one shouldnt get to vote? What about people who just moved to a new state and have to wait to get an ID? There are so many problems with it, but i do think it is fair to ask for ID and do that in the future. But what about absentee ballots?

my god, what was he thinking? He looks absolutely gleeful like he just won or some [!@#$%^&*].

Yes to all of this.

[marceline]

LOL! This is the one I find most hysterical. Anytime someone says it I wonder when they stepped of the transporter pad from Planet Idiot.

My usual response to this is that Obama or no Obama, the person who thought I was an "N-word" yesterday still thinks that today. I honestly wonder where the idea that we've entered a "post-racial" society came from.

[GoldenDogs]

And, of course, there's Dexter. :-) But he doesn't mean it in a bad way!

[GoldenDogs]

Marceline, it would seem you and I agree on more things than not... That we spend more time arguing about the things we don't agree on kind of sucks... but, after all, this is a political forum and someone has got to disagree to make it interesting!

[Wales2004]

In order for a person to be able to live an entirely race free existence in America, she has to shut the media out because for some people that's the only reminder.

I first heard the "post-racial" term after Barack Obama won the nomination. I was watching one of those panel discussions and someone said that Barack Obama, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick represented "post-racial" politics and I figured that people in the media especially love to coin phrases that mean absolutely nothing to me.

[Wales2004]

Where does that leave you and me because you actually quoted me?

[Roman]

who called you that?

[marceline]

Sorry. I didn't get a name since...

• He called me that in the library when I was seven. (That was the first time I'd ever been called that.)
  
• She said that to me at the mall when I was eight and throwing coins into the fountain
  
• He told me that the neighborhood pool was closed to "N-words" when I was ten
  
• He was a friend of mine in high school and said he considered Budweiser "N-word beer"
  
• She took me to a party sophomore year where the guy she liked to me not to N*****lip the cigarette
  
• When I talked to my friend for high school about his roommates he called one a "sand n*****" because he was Muslim.
  

I was the only black girl out of a high school class of 525. I had that word yelled at me in the hallways and screamed at me on the bus. My brother was called that word when he was working a temp job. My father, an engineer who worked for for [!@#$%^&*] NASA, got called that name by a coworker.

Anybody who thinks that all those people became fair, open-minded individuals the day Obama got elected is an idiot.

Any other questions?

Edited September 15, 2012 by marceline

[GoldenDogs]

OMG, I'm a dumbass! Sorry, Wales! I got confused when I typed it... I meant to write your name down.

Seriously, this is what happens with limited sleep for two weeks. It's like when you are reading something and you say what you are reading as opposed to what you are thinking. Or is that the other way around...

Can you forgive my stupidity???

So, where is leave us is... maybe we're so far apart on politics that we are bumping into each other on the other side!

Eh, seriously... you're kind of cool and I enjoy reading your stuff, even when I don't agree. We'd probably get along pretty good in the real world. We obviously don't disagree on EVERYTHING... ;-)