Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Franko]

Oh my, that was painful. I try not to overdo it with the criticism, but that was like watching a recording of someone's failed audition.

[DRW50]

He was a very charismatic, good-looking guy. I wish I could see more of his run as Curtis as he seems to just be a generic leading man, but that seems to be the way they treated Curtis most of the time when Chris Marcantel wasn't in the role. 

I probably do become overly critical, but I just don't care for her acting - it's very artificial, which is almost worse than just bad acting. She gets a little better on AW but not much.

The Loving blog mentioned 1987 as being almost a lost year for the show as no one introduced that year has any real staying power, other than Alex/Clay (and to a lesser degree, Rick). They may have cut a few too many of their losses (although the main one I might have kept is Ned and I'm not sure if Luke Perry is the one who chose to leave), but I can see why they tried to move on from most of the year. 

I don't ever know if it was Colleen Dion's choice to leave but with all the time invested in Cecilia I might have tried more with her too, especially as she was becoming an Ava Jr. 

[Franko]

Oh, I didn't think you were overly critical. I just feared that I was using too much hyperbole. Let's face it, though. Bad is bad, and that was bad.

Wordpress is being annoying with me right now, so this is the perfect chance for me to give a shoutout to @Kane for how much I'm enjoying the Loving blog's continued journey. The recaps brought me there, and the commentary's keeping me.

[Kane]

Thanks! I live in optimism that more episodes will find their way online, but until then I'm happy cataloguing various other aspects of the show.

 

I think Cecelia had more mileage left as a character, particularly considering her relationship with Rick, who was on the verge of being revealed to be an Alden. Instead of breaking them up, the show could have built them up as a couple and then when the Aldens find out about Rick, he could have felt pressure to break it off, partially because of Cecelia's past with Trisha, and partially because his desire to "fit in" with the family drives him to seek out a woman from an upper class family. The conflict between them could have also created conflict between Alex and Ava (not that they necessarily needed extra conflict since Egypt was on her way to Corinth).

[DRW50]

This would have brought better story than him obsessing over Stacey, especially as Trisha would be even more upset with Cecilia after Steve's death. I can't see Gwyn having any use for her either.

At least we did get most of a 1987 episode put up yesterday...just wish there was more. 

(not even sure of the exact date - the AW clips are from the week of May 18-22)

Thanks again for all you do with the blog.

[Franko]

Tuesday, May 26.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I forgot there was an ad break and closing credits. 

Boy, Steve and Trisha really did not have much time together as a happy couple.

[Franko]

Not a problem. I get a kick out of playing detective.

I wonder if there were any fans of Steve & Trisha (Treve? Stisha?) who were upset about the lack of a happy ending after all those years of buildup.

[CrazySexyQ]

I started getting into soaps as a kid during the "Loving" murders. It's still one of the best plotted, written, and acted serial killer stories. Some of the deaths were ridiculous but you went with it. Stacey's death is still so sad, and Gwen's breakdown was everything. 

"The City" was truly ahead of its time for what it was trying to do with the stories and camera shots. 

[DRW50]

That's also when I got into Loving. To the point where I didn't even really care much about following The City, as I was annoyed at most of my favorites on Loving in those months being written out. They shot themselves in the foot.

I think the first I saw was either Curtis' death or when Gwyn and Ally nearly died of carbon monoxide poisoning.

[dc11786]

In the limited stuff that appears, Burke Moses' Curtis always feels like a very watered down version of the character, but even Linden Ashby's Curtis feels very diluted. The writing doesn't help from neither a storytelling perspective nor from the dialogue. I don't think Moses is around much after this. I am not even sure if he makes it to Trisha and Steve's wedding in August (?) as Moses leaves to perform in a play (maybe "Joseph and the Technocolor Dreamcoat?). Hoag leaves in late October/ early November when they decide to not bring Curtis back and Lotty joins him in Germany. 

I also just don't see much potential in Curtis / Lotty as a couple. 

Wilson is painful, but Luke Perry is equally so if not slightly more at times. This was not a strong younger set. One of the previous snippets with Kelly Conway and Ned weren't much better. 

1987 isn't super appealing, but I don't find the stuff we've seen from 1986 much better after Dane's board meeting exit. The show is very much falling apart from mid-1985 until 1987. 1986 mostly seems boring with 1987 seeming downright awful until very late in the year. I also feel that the April Hathaway story was a terrible attempt to tell the Dolly Jones Lane  story better only to make it worse.  

I agree they should have kept Cecilia, but I also think they shouldn't have had her miscarry. There would have been more drama had Cecilia had Steve's child, which would then have been something that Trisha could never have had. Also, they were trying to weave Cecilia into the Amourelle stuff with her vying for the modelling gig that either Lily was assigned or had abandoned. I think Cecilia as Lily's talk to would have been interesting especially if some of the details slowly got back to Ava who would see the opportunity to stick it to Stacey. 

I think Cecilia could have also absorbed some of the Dinahlee story as Ava's friend, Trucker's lover, etc. 

I mean they wouldn't have been mad too long. Trucker seems to be a poor man's Steve without the strong family ties on the canvas. 

[CrazySexyQ]

I'm catching up on this thread. So, please excuse if this has been covered already, but what did you think of Trisha and Tucker? It felt like Trisha was coming in and out of the show around this time. 

I knew Michael Weatherly would be a big star. Cooper wasn't the most exciting character but he drove story with Ally and the baby. Baby Laura Wright really showed her chops. I liked the edge they gave her character after her husband died. 

[vote4llama]

I gotta disagree about 1987 being a boring year.  I've only seen a couple dozen episodes from that year, and I haven't viewed the above videos yet, but there was a lot of drama.  Trisha was addicted to drugs and dating the villainous casino owner Nick Dinatos.  Gwyn was in full matriarch vixen mode and I believe at one point goes to the casino to slap Nick.  I'm not a big fan of false rape storylines, but there was intrigue with Steve being in jail, and him and Trisha still being in love.  Then there was the Alden panic learning "Clay" is still alive, and Alex comes in hot.  He sleeps with Gwyn and then basically tells her to F off.  

Retweet about the Loving Murders.  It's my favorite soap storyline, as tragic as it is.  

[dc11786]

Weatherly appeared more interested in the comedy aspects, in my opinion. He seemed more lively when Cooper was cutting up than when he was handling some of his more emotional moments, though that could also be dependent on the writing. I do remember him delivering some decent work with Tyler and reacting to Steffi's bulimia. 

In Weatherly's defense, the show was also in a creative flux when he initially arrived with story and character changes happening frequently. His sexual abuse story was quickly aborted and he had to play some sloppily rewrites at the end of that story which would have turned me off as well. 

Laura Sisk Wright goes with the flow and seems to be much more in command of every version of Ally, but I think she was also surrounded by more grounded actors when she started. A lot of the Aldens Cooper dealt with were new recasts (Clay, Isabelle). 

I am not sure if you were referencing my comments, or just in general, but I said 1986 is boring with stuff like the Zona trial leading into Zach / Lorna / Kelly, the Hunter Belden / Dolly Lane relationship complete with Dolly being told her child had been sold to child pornographers, Ava's grand romance with Judd Beecham, and so on. I think 1987 has more energy, but I still think there are many decisions made that were ineffective leading to some really bad stories or stories that were altered that keep them from being enjoyable. 

[DRW50]

I felt like everyone at that time they were brought i(the 91-92-93 younger cast) had star quality. As it turns out beyond Weatherly one of the few to really hit the mainstream was one I find lackluster (Rebecca Gayheart).

Trisha and Trucker have strong chemistry, and you can see Robert Tyler get better and better, but a part of me does wonder what they would have been with more interesting partners (like Trucker with Dinah Lee, at least before she became so generic).

@dc11786 Appreciate your insights as always. I agree Perry wasn't the best either, but I think he had more presence and believability. 

Something about the Ned/April pairing feels so old fashioned, not helped by April being styled out of the '50s. I was almost startled when Ned pointed out she has to worry about AIDS. 

I can't remember - how much influence did Agnes have over the show in '87? She must have brought Matthew Cowles over, but I don't know about anything else. 

Seems like most of the year is about women in peril, aside from Ava. 

I'm not sure if Loving is ever quite as focused on that aspect again afterward, even though it never fully leaves. The women seem to become more complex or at least have more of an inner life as the '80s close out. 

I agree Cecilia having Steve's baby would have made more sense, and also made it more difficult for Trisha to move on so quickly after his death.