Days versus OLTL: Interesting Perspective

[Kstaff]

I'm home sick today, so I don't know if I'm thinking coherently, but....

I find the different discussions about storylines and writers on the two soaps I watch (OLTL and Days) funny. On the one hand, Days seems to be very polarizing. People either absolutely love what Dena's doing and hate Sheffer, or they hate Dena and want Sheffer (or JER) back. People either think the show is a snoozefest and on its way out, or they think it's better and better. Days' fandom seems to be pretty divisive. Writer versus writer, Ejami versus Lumi, Dansea versus Chick, Stax or no Stax, John or Jawn, storyline kickass versus storyline snoozefest, character development versus plot driven.

On the other hand, for OLTL, no matter WHICH characters are people's favorites, they all seem to agree (for the vast majority) that it kicks solid core right now. And, some of the same posters here will agree on OLTL when they disagree about Days!

Anyone got a psychological or sociological observation or comment about that?

[JackPeyton]

IMHO, that has a lot to do with the fatc that ken Cordy has spent years turning fans against eachother.

OLTL is

[Ryan]

I think there are many reasons why people feel strongly pro-DAYS or not so much, or pro-OLTL or not so much.

I, for many reasons I've stated, don't like Dena's version of DAYS. I've tried watching and I can't do it. Does some of it have something to do with I'm pissed Hogan was fired? Yes it does. Does some if it have to do with the fact that I dislike Dena Higley as a writer? yes it does. Do I have an extreme dislike for Ken Corday's creative and financial management of that show? Yes I do.

However to counter that, I extremely dislike Bob Guza, yet I watch GH almost every day. Why? Because though GH is a complete and utter cesspool of clustfuckery, I still manage to find some form of entertainment from the show, and their dialogue doesn't always insult my intelligence.

I've said on many occasion though I like Hogan, his run at DAYS was not the best. But his greatest strength on DAYS came from his script and breakdown writers. Hogan had an amazing team. The dialogue (though annoying at times w/ the word Vendetta), was very strong and the asinine things that bothered me about DAYS before (such as the neverending flashbacks, monologues for no reason, etc.) seemed to end. I was upset with the termination of Brandon and Martha, I didn't see any reason to end what I felt to be a great story between Phillip/Belle/Chloe/Shawn, and I didn't see a reason to bring on the characters that she did or bring back the ones she did. However I can understand why she did it (though I don't agree).

After about two months of not watching DAYS, I have begun getting back into the show only through youtube clips. I prefer not to watch some of the other bullshit, so I get my fix from watching Tamara/Peter/Kristian/Stephen/Mary Beth clips on Youtube.

OLTL on the other hand I feel has transformed into a great show. The mess that was Dena Higley took a long time to clean up, but Ron worked it. He set great things into motion and was just hitting his stride when the strike happened. The show IMO took a bit of a creative downturn while under the reign of interim head writer Gary Tomlin, but Ron returned with guns blazing.

There are some who don't like Ron's OLTL for whatever reason, and they're entitled to their dislike of the show and hatred of RC (the same way I am to mine of Dena Higley). And contrary to what some believe, SON isn't telling you to stay out of threads if you don't like the show. I've praised RC too many times, and because I'm running out of time I won't get into it, but I think the show is great. He's a very good writer who taps into history, he plays the balance of vets and those that aren't and new characters, and he is genuinely excited about the show.

[MichaelGL]

Great post Ryan!

[DaysFanatic777]

I can only talk about Days (Sheffer, Dena, Scott, and Reilly), since it's the show out of the two I watch. I have thought about watching OLTL since most of this board loves it at the moment. I may give it a try since I have nothing else to do today (my area of Georgia was hit by a tornado, so I've been out of work for a few days now).

My main problem with Dena is the way the show has gone about things, and her very boring and incoherent style of writing that caters to fanbases, and not the show itself.

I was not a big Sheffer fan for much of his tenure. In hindsight, he was being controlled by Corday, but still, much of his reign was lackluster and not essentially "Days". HOWEVER, from September 2007 on, he brought Days (Along with Ed Scott) to a level it had not seen since the late 80's. Johns funeral, and the aftermath may have been the best Days episodes I have seen since Doug and Julie's 76 wedding. It had raw emotion, powerful dialouge, brilliant acting, and historic detail that made me watch those eppys over and over again. Hogan proved himself to me with those few episodes, and wiped away all the bad stuff that had been written before. The last few months of his reign had Days primed for a major comeback. Had he stayed, it would be must see TV right now. At the end, he finally got it, and he really got it. He got the concept of what made this show a cultural icon. It may have taken him a year, but whats a year between friends? I mean really, the show was good.

Now we have Higley. We find in Higley exactly what Corday wants. She's a fanbase writer, and Ken loves a writer that will cater to a few, and stir up controversy among the many. He likes for us to be at odds, and in Higley, he has that. He also likes a writer that will do as he ask, and leave important plot points behind for the sake of his very shallow vision for this show. He always pushes writers to go in his direction, despite what has already been established on the canvas. Dena would sell her soul (remember how she got here..) for a chance to headwrite Days again , and that means she will continue to do what it takes to make Corday happy. That means the worst it yet to come.

It wouldn't be so bad if the show hadn't shown such signs of life late in 2007. The former writing team proved this show could be complex again, so it's a huge letdown for those of us who remember the good ole' "Days", saw them coming back, only to have Corday and Higley hijack it.

[rhythmchyc]

It's funny how everyone's saying how Tomlin's OLTL sagged until Ron came back but it was hella better than the crapfest Maria was trying to hold down at Y&R.

I don't think Tomlin was that bad. At least there were cliffhangers during those episodes.

In fact, whenever Fridays came rolling around and Soapnet had the audacity to say it was "Cliffhanger Friday," I felt like through my shoe at the screen. WHAT F'ING CLIFFHANGERS Y&R???

::sigh::

[Ryan]

We all give Tomlin credit for holding the show steady, but the quality and feel of the show did take a creative downturn (and I think that had more to do with churning out so many episodes and holding steady for Ron to return).

[rhythmchyc]

I suppose because Ron is just so good. It is hard to keep up with that.

Oh well.

[leevo64]

People tend to agree on OLTL because Ron Carlivati treats the show with dignity and respect, whereas Dena Higley shows no creative vision in her work.

As for Tomlin, I applaud him for not doing anything insultingly bad for the few months he was on. Luckily most stories just picked up from where they left off when Carlivati returned (save for the promising Alison Perkins story).

[brimike]

Days has always been a polarizing show (thank you, Ken Corday and Jim Reilly)

The fans pre-JER will always want a return to form - and the fans post-JER just want to be entertained for an hour without putting too much thought into it (that is NOT saying these fans aren't intelligent - but to them, Days is just fun mindless entertainment (of which I personally find in lots of shows, so I can't say this enough - I'm not insulting anyone here). It's like GH - if you were a post-90's Guza fan, and the show were to take the mob away, you would HATE it, although anyone who was a pre-Guza fan is clamoring for it.

In late 2007, there were glimpses Days might somehow merge the two (John's JER-ish return with thoughtful, character-driven moments interspersed throughout).

Days is now back to what it used to be - a lot of bitchy one-liners, women fighting over a man, mystery illnesses and flashbacks. Nothing too hard-core or that involves too much emotional investment. Just good mindless entertainment. So the fans who watched Days for that reason are loving it - and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not for everybody.

The people loving Days right now keep saying the same thing to me over and over again - "It feels like Days again". And that's what they grew up on, what makes them feel comfort when they turn on their soap. And that's cool - it's just that a lot of us who saw something else in the Sheffer/Scott team-up were teased at the possibilities, and it's created a lot of bitterness.

On the other hand, One Life to Live (with the exception of Eterna) has always been about making the audience think, exploring the human condition. And it never strayed too far from that path. Even when DH was writing it, there always seemed to be this tug of war between her long-term stories and the writers/actors/directors to raise it up to another level. It never split its audience by switching its identity, so when it's good, the majority of fans find it good, and when it's bad, the same thing happens.

[quartermainefan]

I started DOOL in 2004, so I go with JER all the way. But my favorite OLTL story of all time was Eterna, so there is a clue what I like.

Days today is an ABC show stranded on NBC. I faithfully watched everyday for four years, and now Tamara Braun showed up, out went DiMeras and their complex schemes, in came mundane mobsters and their threats to use guns <yawn> and now I watch once or twice a week. If I see TB or any of her goombahs on, I shut it off.

Where is the relentless plot that JER used to go for? No complex scheming to speak of, no bizarre twists and turns. Nothing. And women who go crazy because they obsess over men and define themselves by whether or not they have their man's baby have a home on GH, not DOOL.

Bring back Jan Spears, that about sums up my opinion of current DOOL.

[leevo64]

WELL SAID! One Life has always had one thing going for it - socially conscious storytelling from the beginning. From Carla Gray to (the mediocre but still form-fitting) the One Pure People story, the show has always been a step above typical soap fare.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Traditionally, that's what the Agnes Nixon soaps are about. However, OLTL hasn't been about or done rather overt social storytelling since Linda Gottlieb's run as EP. There's been instances where they tried to do it since, but it wasn't the main focus of the show or something that appeared to be rather apparent.

I would argue that Paul Rauch creatively raped the show of its traditional qualities in the 80's/early 90's. Linda Gottlieb and Malone tried to bring it back to the social issues and class differences in the mid-90's, but they did it in a very preachy way IMO. As much as I love Labine, OLTL clearly wasn't her type of show when she inherited it 97. Then JFP came and like Rauch before her, raped the show of all the qualities that made it seem unique. Then, Tomlin virtually turned the show into a campy sitcom. Malone and Griffith's second run tried to emulate their first run in a way, but it was a failure. They tried to go in a more GH-esque route and social storytelling wasn't the major theme. Higley was just a mess, even when she tried to tell socially relevant stories, they ended up being about something else entirely.

I think AMC has much deeper socially storytelling roots than OLTL. Yes, current AMC is just a mess and the show just isn't what it used to be. However, there was a good 25 years or so of AMC history where the show was *the socially relevant soap opera.* Yes, it could be preachy at times, but AMC kept truer to its initial Agnes Nixon social storytelling roots than OLTL did, IMO.

[koos]

Days is boring and sucky now, but I wouldn't want Sheffer or JERk (shudder) to return. I'm liking Ava more now that she isn't cartoonishly insane, though. The show is really thin; it's nearly all unconvincing relationship crap, whether it's Chelsea/Daniel (garbage), EJ/Sami (dumb), Phillip/Chloe (doesn't make sense anymore), or John/Marlena (just get on with it one way or the other already, jeeze!). Or it's lame, old baby trouble BS.

[dragonflies]

Hackley is about plot points and not actual storytelling and Ron is about actual storytelling. I think that's the major difference