Members KSlater Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 This is a very interesting discussion. That's why I like SON. But unlike a lot of the posters on this site, I'm not an industry insider or someone who knows everything about what goes on behind the scenes, etc. I'm not a soap historian. I'm just a plain ole' soap opera fan. And my love for soaps hasn't diminished. I love everything about the genre. I hope they don't disappear. Soaps are a mixed bag though, I've yet to see one that is perfectly written. And I've been watching them steadily since 1978. There's always clunky stories or storylines that make no sense, poor dialogue at times, characters that get on my nerves, unrealistic timelines, etc. I'm also a realist too. Things in life come and go. Soaps may be on the way out. Am I upset? Not anymore than when other things I've love have disappeared. It happens. That's life. One night when I was really, really bored and couldn't go to sleep, I went through the ratings archive here. It looks to me that soaps have been on a downward trend for years. The ratings way back in the 70's and 80's were amazing. But I think with the introduction of cable TV, people having to work two jobs to make ends meet, the internet, home video, etc. that viewing habits have changed. I'll share something here -- a few years ago, I had to take care of my father during his last months on this earth. It was tough, excruciating, sad -- everything you can imagine as awful when watching someone you love die in from you your eyes and being powerless to do anything about it. Wanna know what helped me keep my sanity during that time? My soap. I won't name it because I don't want to argue about how bad some people think it is. I love it though and I think that's what matters to me. And although the storyline was stupid at the time during my dad's illness, I swear, I looked so forward to turning on the TV at 1pm in the afternoon to escape from the hell that filled my home. It gave me a welcome respite. And I'll always be grateful for that. I'm not so sure that soaps have become more horrific than they've ever been. I still love my soap. And perhaps I'm considered a moronic boob for loving it, for being passionate about my favorite characters, but so be it! Maybe I'm the one who is killing soaps since I belong to a fanbase. I travel to fan events, read up what's happening on the show storywise, surf sites like this one and watch my show religiously through the bad and good because quite frankly I'm enjoying myself. I thought that is what soaps were all about -- enjoying yourself, getting an hour of escape and getting a little rest and relaxation from the real world. I do agree with the opinion that if people don't like what they are seeing on screen, they have zero obligation to watch the show. It's up to the show's producers to figure out how to get and keep an audience. It's not up to the audience to save a show if they think it stinks. I know if I don't like a show, if it's getting on my last nerve, I won't watch it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cat Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 Wow. SON is on fire with this thread! Wiccachick's post reads like a strategy proposal to TPTB at the networks. They need to *take notes* on that post ASAP! I would add that if TIIC rely on live ratings so much, they should consider scheduling soaps between 4-8pm when more people have a chance to watch (but that's just my personal beef). Secondly, KSlater really summed up the magic and durability of the soap genre and why they hook us, even now. I'm glad your show was "there" for you when your father was so dreadfully ill, KSlater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KSlater Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 Thanks Cat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 It's good to be back Scotty. I don't visit boards as much as I used too. I am busy writing two online soap operas and working on my history board SoapsWEB - those take a lot of time now. Plus I am in sort of a relationship. WE don't love each other or anything but we are living together and partners now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 In talking about soaps dying - soaps are not dying. The soap opera genre is still alive and well on television. Nearly 75% of the primetime shows now have a soap operaish feel to them or some type of serial storyline in them that carried through. Foreign soaps are alive and well. Two of the big reasons for this is that the nighttime shows still embrace some of the old basic ideas of soaps. They also keep the key components of the story and the show front and center all the time. Foreign soaps don't treat their audience like idiots either. Shows like Coronation Street embrace all ages and show a balance in the storytelling. They also don't feel that every actor on the show has to be a model. They have characters who look like people you see and meet in your everyday life. They don't have SORASing - children grow up in real time. They are true soap operas and true slice of life dramas for the most part. Daytime soaps are dying though and we are watching them everyday die a slow agonizing death unfortunately. In the end there are going to be a lot of reasons that they died. TPTB will have to take a huge part of the blame but we as fans will have to take part of the blame too. When you take and look at the changes made in soap operas over the years one of the biggest things that changed was fans. Fans used to be fans of the characters and not the actors. Now many actors are households names due to their soap fans. Fans used to love the show and not just a small segment of the show. Fans now latch on to certain characters or couples and push the agenda of their fave often times at the detriment of the show as a whole. Fans are not more vocal than they used to be but they are more vocal about more specific issues esp. in regards to their faves. Fans have always written the shows but now it is more in regards to their fave than the show as a whole. Fans also have attached certain actors to roles and label anyway else a fake or a faux. Recasts have always been a common part of daytime soap operas and the replacements were never labeld faux or fake. The character remained the same just with a new face. That doesn't happen today. In 38 years I have seen some very big shoes filled (i.e. Robin Strasser on AW; Jacqueline Courtney on AW; Gillian Spencer on OLTL; Nancy Pinkerton on OLTL; Jada Rowland on SS; Lynne Adams on GL; William Gray Espy on Y&R; Terry Lester on Y&R; and many others). Those replacements were never labeled fauxRachel - fauxVicki - fauxAlice - etc. They were just Rachel, or Vicki or Alice or Jack, etc. Sadly many of these things fans demand and sadly TPTB listen to them. Proof being the ABC campaigns that the real Greenlee was back (makes me puke when I think about it). They listen to those groups that push their faves and they do whatever they can to keep those faves front and center thinking that is what all the fans want. All these things have helped to lead to the impending death of the daytime soap opera. In the end we all share blame, but one thing that fans will not share the blame in is causing the death by not watching. That ultimately is TPTB's fault. If a fan quits because the show has just gotten so bad - fans don't have an obligation to watch. It is the shows obligation to make the "right" changes in order to win that fan back. He owes that show nothing. Notice I said "right" in quotes. Sometimes we as fans quit over stupid issues such as our fave not being on 7 days a week or them not getting the sheet set we sent in or not getting the love scene we requested, etc. Although those are important reasons to some fans - they are not ultimately the be all and end all to the best of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darcy Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 Losing 600,000 viewers means that AMC is down 20% in total viewers from a year ago!! When you are talking about small numbers to begin with that is VERY bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wiccachick_1 Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 Thank you for the wonderful compliment. I'm just a boring accountant and I don't profess to be the grand poobah of marketing but you would assume that thinking outside of the same tired old box would be on the table IF and I mean IF they are committed to daytime drama programming to continue. KSlater- I am so happy that you had your soap to help you through such a tough time. That gives me a warm fuzzy about the genre that I love so much. That's what people need from their soap. Earlier in this thread someone asked me what my fascination with ABC soaps are and I think you hit it on the head. I have "known" Alan Quartermaine, Erica Kane, and Vicki Buchanan all my life. I find it comforting to have them around and that's the only reason I can't seem to throw in the towel completely. It's why I still care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marceline Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 Interesting. The only soap I watch at all anymore is AMC (semi-regularly) and that's only for Jesse/Angie. I watched AMC and OLTL for more than 20 years and as I read through this thread it's become clear to me how much I really have given up on soaps overall. I see these impassioned pleas on how to save soaps and it makes me realize that somewhere along the way I stopped caring about them the way I used to. I guess it's the trust issue that somebody brought up upthread. After years of watching my favorite shows turn into jokes, I've kind of lost the will to fight for them. Call it Battered Viewer's Syndrome. Of course it doesn't help that my shows are on ABC, by far the most abusive network of the bunch. Honestly if AMC or OLTL got cancelled tomorrow I wouldn't lift a finger. (I'm not trying to start anything. This is more a realization on my part.) Now that is vastly different from the way I reacted when I heard Friday Night Lights was going to be cancelled. I called, wrote, donated money to the fan campaign, signed online petitions, the whole shebang. (And we got a season three!) But how did I grow to care more about a show that's been on for two seasons than ones I've watched for 20 years? Or I guess a better question is: how did those shows manage to beat the loyalty out of me? Because looking at the numbers, it obviously isn't just me. Of course I still care enough to post on soap boards so I guess that's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jhc2010 Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 I calculated the percentages of viewers that watch these shows. It's interesting to see how many men actually watch Y&R -- it's significantly more than the number of women 18-49... The Young and the Restless -- Men 18+: 27%; Women 18-49: 21% The Bold and the Beautiful -- Men 18+: 25%; Women 18-49: 23% General Hospital -- Men 18+: 18%; Women 18-49: 35% Days of our Lives -- Men 18+: 20%; Women 18-49: 34% As the World Turns -- Men 18+: 24%; Women 18-49: 27% One Life to Live -- Men 18+: 18%; Women 18-49: 34% All My Children -- Men 18+: 20%; Women 18-49: 32% Guiding Light -- Men 18+: 23%; Women 18-49: 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angela Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 MONDAY, MARCH 31 1.(1) Y&R: Monday: 4.0/5,496,000 (+99,000) 2.(2) B&B: Monday: 2.8/3,794,000 (-332,000) 3.(5) GH: Monday: 2.3/3,217,000 (+407,000) 4.(4) DAYS: Monday: 2.2/3,035,000 (+195,000) 5.(3) ATWT: Monday: 2.2/3,012,000 (-139,000) 6.(8) OLTL: Monday: 2.0/2,763,000 (+481,000) 7.(7) AMC: Monday: 2.0/2,674,000 (+347,000) 8.(6) GL: Monday: 1.8/2,498,000 (+216,0000 TUESDAY, APRIL 1 1.(1) Y&R: Tuesday: 3.8/5,289,000 (-207,000) 2.(2) B&B: Tuesday: 2.7/3,735,000 (-59,000) 3.(3) GH: Tuesday: 2.2/2,961,000 (-256,000) 4.(5) ATWT: Tuesday: 2.1/2,721,000 (-291,000) 5.(4) DAYS: Tuesday: 2.0/2,654,000 (-381,000) 6.(6) OLTL: Tuesday: 2.0/2,523,000 (-240,000) 7.(7) AMC: Tuesday: 1.9/2,519,000 (-155,000) 8.(8) GL: Tuesday: 1.7/2,209,000 (-289,000) WEDNESDAY, APRIL 2 1.(1) Y&R: Wednesday: 3.7/5,105,000 (-184,000) 2.(2) B&B: Wednesday: 2.6/3,722,000 (-13,000) 3.(4) ATWT: Wednesday: 2.1/2,845,000 (+124,000) 4.(5) DAYS: Wednesday: 2.1/2,842,000 (+188,000) 5.(3) GH: Wednesday: 2.0/2,566,000 (-395,000) 6.(7) AMC: Wednesday: 1.9/2,426,000 (-93,000) 7.(8) GL: Wednesday: 1.7/2,421,000 (+212,000) 8.(6) OLTL: Wednesday: 1.8/2,263,000 (-260,000) THURSDAY, APRIL 3 1.(1) Y&R: Thursday: 3.6/4,951,000 (-154,000) 2.(2) B&B: Thursday: 2.6/3,655,000 (-67,000) 3.(4) DAYS: Thursday: 2.2/3,026,000 (+184,000) 4.(5) GH: Thursday: 2.0/2,725,000 (+159,000) 5.(3) ATWT: Thursday: 2.0/2,714,000 (-131,000) 6.(8) OLTL: Thursday: 1.7/2,298,000 (+35,000) 7.(7) GL: Thursday: 1.6/2,237,000 (-184,000) 8.(6) AMC: Thursday: 1.7/2,228,000 (-198,000) FRIDAY, APRIL 4 1.(1) Y&R: Friday: 3.7/5,187,000 (+236,000) 2.(2) B&B: Friday: 2.5/3,425,000 (-230,000) 3.(4) GH: Friday: 2.1/2,740,000 (+15,000) 4.(5) ATWT: Friday: 2.0/2,684,000 (-30,000) 5.(3) DAYS: Friday: 1.9/2,557,000 (-469,000) 6.(6) OLTL: Friday: 1.9/2,223,000 (-75,000) 7.(8) AMC: Friday: 1.8/2,218,000 (-10,000) 8.(7) GL: Friday: 1.6/2,166,000 (-71,000) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 This is another terrific post. Let me also say that embedded in your post is sadness...of a lost love, so to speak...and so my sympathies go to you. I used to watch ABC shows, but I detached long ago (just because life took over)...so I've noted from a distance what a ruin they have become, but I haven't felt the emotional pain of it. I think I'm still capable of loving the genre, and caring about it, because my one remaining show is Y&R. Even during the HELL of 2007, when LML had total control, my show was still in many ways my show. Sets were the same. Production values were high. Front burner characters were still mostly the vets I'd seen for 10-35 years. So I could still go "home". I must confess, though, as LML made the show less and less close to what it was, I did begin to feel a kind of quiet desperation, and then anger, that even my show was in jeopardy. I think, when Y&R finally fully jumps the shark--to the point that it can't come back, like so many of the other shows--I'll probably get to where you are. My trust violated, the object of my affection on "life support" (as Steve Frame conjured up), I'd leave the genre behind too. Therein lies my deeper sadness, though. These soaps have been such an important throughline of continuity in a life that has taken me many places. When people were dying, or jobs or homes where changing, Genoa City was always there. I distinctly remember using Y&R to "clear my mind" on some of the worst days of my life. Sure, other entertainment or distractions will come. But none of the other forms are "life long friends". And when life long friends pass on, they cannot be replaced. Sad for all of us, that the caretakers of our "friends" have been so careless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marceline Posted April 11, 2008 Members Share Posted April 11, 2008 I hadn't thought about it that way but you're right, it does make me sad. I remember how much these shows meant to me. I think all of us can come up with stories of how or love of soaps expressed itself in some amazing way. (I'm thinking back to an impromptu "return of Max Holden" party my college roommates and I held. We just ran through the apartment building knocking on doors saying "Max is back!!" By 2:00 we had 10 coeds in our apartment getting loaded on wine coolers. And no, nobody went to class. I'm still in touch with my former roommate (now a mother of two) and all we have to say is "Ooooh Maaaaxxx" with a breathy sigh and we share a smile. I'm a born fangirl. Give me a show that affects me and I am THERE. I'm a Trekker, a Browncoat, a TenthWonder, a Buffyfan and a Panthers Rally Girl. I takes a lot for me to walk away, but I feel like I've been forced to walk away from soaps. But, part of me really does feel like even if THESE PARTICULAR SOAPS fall by the wayside something will replace them. For example, I am really looking forward to Eden Riegel's web series Imaginary Bitches. It's not a soap - actually its a comedy - but it looks interesting to me. And that's more than I can say for OLTL or AMC outside of J&A. Maybe "soaps" aren't dying. Maybe they're just finding their smaller, niche audiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted April 12, 2008 Members Share Posted April 12, 2008 No wonder viewership for soaps is down or for that matter viewership for TV is down as a whole. A few months back in a TV interview Mary Beth Evans admitted she never watches Days (even when she is off) and said she didn't keep up with it when she was off the show. Then over at Buddy TV, James Scott says this in an interview: I never hear Interviewers ask this question of other stars. If the Days stars don't even watch TV or the soaps, I wonder how many of the others watch or don't watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marceline Posted April 12, 2008 Members Share Posted April 12, 2008 Respectfully, I'm not sure that's fair. Who can blame any actor for wanting to put a big wall between their work life and their "real" life? Most of us can easily put our "day jobs" out of sight and out of mind. But when your day job (which may include 12 hour taping days often spent getting naked with your coworkers) also includes weekend promotional appearances and being interrupted by fans when you're playing with your kid in the park, is it really that surprising that soaps stars don't watch? I worked in radio for ten years and I can tell you I NEVER listened to the station I was working for, when I was working there. It's just not the same when its your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dinah07 Posted April 12, 2008 Members Share Posted April 12, 2008 If they put the DVR/SOAPNET on with the rating they will not be so bad. I know that SoapNet get great rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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