EJ raped Sami.

Sami raped Austin.

They are both hideous, and therefore, in my mind, the slate is wiped clean.

Also, people keep saying he held a gun to her. EJ owns a gun, and it was likely in the car with him, but I never remembered him holding one to her until I was told he did. Is that a rewrite? Is there a link online where I can rewatch it?

EJ did have a gun that night and did hold it on Sami but not as I recall during the rape.

EJ did have a gun that night and did hold it on Sami but not as I recall during the rape.

He didn't have to hold it on her, she knew he had the gun and she knew what kind of a person EJ was at the time......

Excuse me? I stand by my assesment. James loves Ejmai he did not like 180 done on EJ just to try to prop Lucas and Lami at time. Besides, it didn't work for show then and still doesn't. Thus, the reason Lami is being dumped and Ejami is being promoted.

The fact is the whole sl was a debacle and the fact its still debateable only proves that.

I always do laugh though when some bring up rape, rape, rape and forget their guy let Sami go to jail and death row for a muder he knew he committed. That is so far worse in my book. Those is glass houses should not throw stones!

Except it wasn't murder really. Oups. But yeah it was far worse.

NeoAngelicLiz. Yeah, of course Sami had a choice. Either Lucas dies or she have sex with E.J. while at gun point. That's not a choice, that's a matter of life and death and E.J made Sami have sex with him. imo If Sami had said no. Do you really think E.J. would've let Sami out of the car just like that? Don't you think he would have raped her anyway. He was instructed (like the good little soldier he was) to get a Brady preggers, and Sami was the one he wanted.

E.J. raped Sami and Sami raped Austin. So she's as good as E.J. The only thing is that the actual experience was psychically worse for Sami. She was aware of what was happening the whole time while Austin thought Sami was Carrie. But Sami's way of raping Austin is no different then when women (mostly) gets drugged and raped while out clubbing. Sami and E.J. are both guilty of the crime rape, and in my book there's really nothing more to it.

About the article. James speaks so well and the way he says it makes me respect him even more then I already do.

Edited October 9, 200718 yr by Cheyenne

Except it wasn't murder really. Oups. But yeah it was far worse.

NeoAngelicLiz. Yeah, of course Sami had a choice. Either Lucas dies or she have sex with E.J. while at gun point. That's not a choice, that's a matter of life and death and E.J made Sami have sex with him. imo If Sami had said no. Do you really think E.J. would've let Sami out of the car just like that? Don't you think he would have raped her anyway. He was instructed (like the good little soldier he was) to get a Brady preggers, and Sami was the one he wanted.

E.J. raped Sami and Sami raped Austin. So she's as good as E.J. The only thing is that the actual experience was psychically worse for Sami. She was aware of what was happening the whole time while Austin thought Sami was Carrie. But Sami's way of raping Austin is no different then when women (mostly) gets drugged and raped while out clubbing. Sami and E.J. are both guilty of the crime rape, and in my book there's really nothing more to it.

About the article. James speaks so well and the way he says it makes me respect him even more then I already do.

UGH why did someone bump this thread today? I thought this horse was DEAD. Anyway...

You know what? Yes I think E.J. would've let Sami out of the car just like that. Because him picking her up in the car in the first place was total chance. He wasn't so deadset on getting her pregnant that he drugged or kidnapped or forced himself on her before he left for Mexico. And to him it was a bargain which he honored by lifting the beam off Lucas. If it was just about sleeping with her and getting her pregnant he would have had his way with her and just left her in the snow or forced her to go to Mexico with him rather than helping her lift the beam off Lucas. It doesn't mean his indecent proposal/rape/sextortion was O.K., but yeah I think if Sami had not submitted and agreed he wouldn't have forced the issue. Just my opinion based on his behavior before and since.

Regardless of what the actors say now, none of their statements throughout this whole mess have been consistent and the show CONTINUES to send mixed messages about what happened as Sami says in today's episode of DOOL that she is Sami Brady and no one can make her do what she doesn't want to do.

Rape is a form of assault where one individual forces another to have sexual intercourse against that person’s will. Most experts believe the primary cause of rape is an aggressive desire to dominate the victim rather than an attempt to achieve sexual fulfillment. They consider rape an act of violence rather than principally a sexual encounter.

Consent may be absent due to duress arising from the use, or threat, of overwhelming force or violence, or because the subject is incapacitated in some way such as intoxication or being underage. In some cases coercion might also be used to negate consent.

The lack of valid consent does not necessarily mean that the victim explicitly refused to give consent. Generally, consent is considered invalid if it is obtained from someone who is:

* Under any kind of duress (force, violence, blackmail, etc.)

* Judgmentally impaired or incapacitated by alcohol or drugs (legal or otherwise)

* Mentally impaired whether by illness or developmental disability

* Below the age of consent defined in that jurisdiction

Sami was under duress. As someone who originally didn't allow myself to consider other avenues of rape, beyond the stereotypical "norm," if we were talking back in January, I felt that Sami wasn't raped. I even posted so on the message boards. However.......after reading the opinions of others, understanding that there are more kinds of rape than just what we think, and after re-watching the scenes, I agreed she was rape.

I think in some of our desire to want a certain couple to be together, we tend to whitewash or diminish their actions in order to justify them being together. I happen to think that James & Alison have fantastic chemistry together...and I wish that the writers didn't have EJ rape Sami, because there was too much drama there before the assault, but it doesn't change the fact that EJ committed a crime upon Sami.

WORD to your post Ryan

Heck I even think James and Ali have good chemistry, but they ruined any chance for EJami basically right out of the box IMO.

Rape is a form of assault where one individual forces another to have sexual intercourse against that person’s will. Most experts believe the primary cause of rape is an aggressive desire to dominate the victim rather than an attempt to achieve sexual fulfillment. They consider rape an act of violence rather than principally a sexual encounter.

Consent may be absent due to duress arising from the use, or threat, of overwhelming force or violence, or because the subject is incapacitated in some way such as intoxication or being underage. In some cases coercion might also be used to negate consent.

The lack of valid consent does not necessarily mean that the victim explicitly refused to give consent. Generally, consent is considered invalid if it is obtained from someone who is:

* Under any kind of duress (force, violence, blackmail, etc.)

* Judgmentally impaired or incapacitated by alcohol or drugs (legal or otherwise)

* Mentally impaired whether by illness or developmental disability

* Below the age of consent defined in that jurisdiction

Sami was under duress. As someone who originally didn't allow myself to consider other avenues of rape, beyond the stereotypical "norm," if we were talking back in January, I felt that Sami wasn't raped. I even posted so on the message boards. However.......after reading the opinions of others, understanding that there are more kinds of rape than just what we think, and after re-watching the scenes, I agreed she was rape.

I think in some of our desire to want a certain couple to be together, we tend to whitewash or diminish their actions in order to justify them being together. I happen to think that James & Alison have fantastic chemistry together...and I wish that the writers didn't have EJ rape Sami, because there was too much drama there before the assault, but it doesn't change the fact that EJ committed a crime upon Sami.

Um, Ryan, I'm not whitewashing anything. Really. I think what EJ did was completely despicable, and I do not diminish it, but I just don't dwell on it because I don't personally think it much worse than Lucas's actions toward Sami or Sami's actions toward other people.

But what I am actually talking about is not what *I think* the proper term is for the rape/sextortion/indecent proposal, but trying to get a handle on exactly how the show sees it and is going to present the story going forward.

I mean, that's a great textbook rape definition on which to base your analysis for the scene that occurred Dec. 29, Ryan, but I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with my post that you quoted. I am talking about the show's wishywashyness following that event where the rape was totally ignored for months, then when the RINR campaign kicked into high gear for a while we heard that EJ raped Sami at gunpoint and the dialogue of all their scenes was raperaperaperaperapehijackedkidneyraperaperape, now talk of that night it's explained as Sami was forced to have sex with EJ to save Lucas's life (except when Lucas speaks because he is the only character allowed to still use the rape word now I guess) and still other occasions it's been referred to even more innocuously as "that bargain on the mountain road." And the talk about this story hasn't been any better as James now says the event was rape in print while Ali Sweeney minimized it in the initial articles following the scene as something akin to well-intentioned cheating. We also had Stephen Wyman claiming the rape would be dealt with "in the fundamental way" whatever the hell that means, right before he got canned, and since IMO the rape hasn't been dealt with in the fundamental way following his comments that would signal some other change in the story.

IMO the show has been all over the map in presenting this story and explaining what happened and it's aftermath whatever textbook definition you can apply to the scene on Dec. 29.

For example, today we had Sami telling Lucas that no one can force her to do something she doesn't want to do. Given that yesterday we saw Sami fantasizing about her rapist and accepting a tender kiss from him on her cheek, I am just expressing my confusion as a viewer wondering what the hell I am supposed to think when Sami says things like that no one can force her to do something she doesn't want to do. Am I supposed to just take those comments at face value in a vacuum as if they only apply to the situation at hand or is the show trying to get me to view the statements as part of the larger context of the EJ and Sami story? Because I honestly don't know when the show so carelessly and cryptically tosses out lines like that.

Edited October 10, 200718 yr by IMissAremid

I think it's funny that people have blinders on about their favorite couples, in this instance, people feel like they have to pretend EJ didn't rape Sami, in order to like them together. The whole story was handled poorly, although I believe it's in character for EJ, to do what he did. He was raised to think he could have anything that he wanteds, to take, without asking. And what he wanted, was Sami. Could Sami forgive him and believe that he's changed, because she herself has changed? And then Sami could go through all sorts of trauma having feelings for him, wondering what that must say about her. There is lots of story here, but if they don't actually deal with the rape, than it will be lost. Luckily, James and Alison would be up for the challenge if given the chance

Uhh no one has blinders on here...the people claiming that it was rape are the ones with the narrow view here.

And someone mentioned it was between life and death...well thats a choice...albeit an extreme one. Sami made her decision.

People keep mentioning that gun...the gun was protection from the police. He never threatened Sami with it and he would never have used it on her. EJ didn't force himself onto Sami physically or psychologically.

Therefore its not rape. Sami was mad and furious with EJ but from what I remember she wasn't mentally handicapped in anyway or under extreme duress.

Anyways I think there are a lot more than just a "handful" of people who don't think it was rape.

BUT even if you do think it was rape that doesn't necessarily mean that Ejami is some sick twisted thing and that EJ can never be redeemed or worthy of Sami. But thats just my opinion.

The interview was great. However just cuz the ones who are writing the story are saying something doesn't mean its TRUE.

Edited October 10, 200718 yr by NeoAngelicLiz

UGH why did someone bump this thread today? I thought this horse was DEAD. Anyway...

Ohh I'm sorry but someone else posted only the day before me so it wasn't like I posted in a week old thread. I havn't read the board in a couple of days and simply wanted to say what I thought about this whole thing.

You don't have to read this thread if it bothers you that much, works fine for me with other subjects on this forum.

NeoAngelicLiz. You have got to be kidding me with that post?! And also, I think what you're saying is quite offending to real life rape victims. I'm guessing by reading your posts nothing as horrible as that have happend to you (correct me if I'm wrong). Because if it had I bet you would feel different. jmo

I agree with you on one thing though and that's your last sentence. I don't know about others but I don't base my opinion on what some writer or actor said. I base my opinion on my own experiences.

Edited October 10, 200718 yr by Cheyenne

Ohh I'm sorry but someone else posted only the day before me so it wasn't like I posted in a week old thread. I havn't read the board in a couple of days and simply wanted to say what I thought about this whole thing.

You don't have to read this thread if it bothers you that much, works fine for me with other subjects on this forum.

NeoAngelicLiz. You have got to be kidding me with that post?! And also, I think what you're saying is quite offending to real life rape victims. I'm guessing by reading your posts nothing as horrible as that have happend to you (correct me if I'm wrong). Because if it had I bet you would feel different. jmo

I agree with you on one thing though and that's your last sentence. I don't know about others but I don't base my opinion on what some writer or actor said. I base my opinion on my own experiences.

Even though I've been an Ejami fan since the summer of 2006, I haven't let that cloud my judgement regarding the alleged rape. I know there are rape victims who support Ejami...so not all of them find the treatment of Ejami (as a couple) offending. If the writers truly intended for this to be a rape, they steered way off course early on. No rape victim would ever walk alone into her rapist's apartment to convince him to keep the secret about what happened that night...especially when he answered the door wearing little more than a robe. No bonafide rape victim would ever set her rapist up by practically seducing him before trying to kill him. These are not the efforts of a tramatized rape victim. Sure, the writing has been way off for this story, and the damage started on Dec. 29th. Since then, I've felt like a ping pong ball as I watched this story. I haven't given up on Ejami, however. Most of Sami's tears and fears that night started before she even saw EJ on the road. Lucas was pinned under a beam in that cabin and she still had a car that wouldn't start, and was out in the middle of nowhere. EJ might have added to her fears with his demands, but he wasn't the source for all her tears... Also, I don't know of any rape victim who would slap her rapist while he had a gun in the car, and threaten him if he told anyone what happened between them.

Loretta

Ohh I'm sorry but someone else posted only the day before me so it wasn't like I posted in a week old thread. I havn't read the board in a couple of days and simply wanted to say what I thought about this whole thing.

You don't have to read this thread if it bothers you that much, works fine for me with other subjects on this forum.

Cheyenne, I actually knew that you weren't the one to bump the thread even if I did post that comment right after you. I was just speaking out of general ugh about this whole debate still going on and me still finding myself unable to stay out of it. Sorry if the post seemed like it was directed at you and critical of you for posting.

Ohh I'm sorry but someone else posted only the day before me so it wasn't like I posted in a week old thread. I havn't read the board in a couple of days and simply wanted to say what I thought about this whole thing.

You don't have to read this thread if it bothers you that much, works fine for me with other subjects on this forum.

NeoAngelicLiz. You have got to be kidding me with that post?! And also, I think what you're saying is quite offending to real life rape victims. I'm guessing by reading your posts nothing as horrible as that have happend to you (correct me if I'm wrong). Because if it had I bet you would feel different. jmo

I agree with you on one thing though and that's your last sentence. I don't know about others but I don't base my opinion on what some writer or actor said. I base my opinion on my own experiences.

Which part of the post am I supposed to be kidding about? Don't get me wrong I think rape is a heinous crime and people who commit a rape should be punished severly.

As for what EJ did that night you can he used Sami to get away from Salem and that he committed a number of other crimes (I'm not a cop so I wouldn't know the exact terminology or how severe they were). But the one thing I firmly (but not blindly believe) is that he didn't rape Sami. And thats just based on the scenes that I watched from that episode. And I am very open minded so I've been reading all the posts and I've even rewatched it.

I just don't agree. I don't see what I said that was offensive to rape victims however so if you'll point that out to me then I'll apologize if need be.

I'm glad that you agree me though on the last part.

I think everyone can agree though that the storyline at that point was NOT well thought out or well executed since its meaning wasn't made crystal clear for the entire audience. Based on that its not surprising just how flawed the fallout and the reactions of her family were. If base of a building is flawed you can't expect the whole thing to stay together right....

James,

Please STFU! Stop whining about your damn thoughts because they are irrelavant and OFF THE DAMN MARK!

Please just shut up!

ANDREA

Cheyenne, I actually knew that you weren't the one to bump the thread even if I did post that comment right after you. I was just speaking out of general ugh about this whole debate still going on and me still finding myself unable to stay out of it. Sorry if the post seemed like it was directed at you and critical of you for posting.

Sorry, I really thought you meant me.

NeoAngelicLiz. I meant the part where you explain why you don't think it's rape. You mentioned almost every reason listed in Ryan's post as an example why it's not rape. You forgot to mention that E.J. blackmailed her though...

I've re-watched the scenes too, actually I searched for it on Youtube right after I posted to see if I for some reason would feel different about it now. I don't. I simply disagree with you 100 %. But that's fine, everyone can't agree on everything. It's just that when it's a touchy subject like this you might wanna think before you say "it's not rape". Those who are victims of this crime might think differently. And perhaps you would indeed feel different about it all if you went to something similar yourself. Just a thought.

But yes, I agree with you (again), that the story and subject was handled poorly. Disgusting really.

Edited October 11, 200718 yr by Cheyenne