Then why don't they ever talk about Erica's kidnapping? The show acts as if it didn't happen and every single time Erica brings up the horrors of kidnapping it just makes her look like a blazing hypocrite because her crimes are never mentioned. It's like they completely forgot her napping of Maddie! They did the same thing when she tried to kill Madden. No one ever remembers that either. It's not even about weither Erica "paid" or not. It's a simple acknowledgement that she did it. That she has done the same thing.

As to Maria forgiving her she let Erica into her home whenever Erica wanted. Maria let Erica near her house and children. Maria testified on behalf of Erica during her trial and Maria comforted Erica when she found out that Bianca was raped. Maria also was never given the privilage of telling Erica off for what she did.

You can definetely compare Erica's kidnapping to Babe's, Greenlee's, Dixie's, Brooke's, Adam's, Janet's, Tad's and many other kidnappings that Pine Valley has gone threw.

I'm not a writer of the show, so I don't know why they don't talk about erica's kidnapping. But it probably has something to do with the crime being comitted 10 years ago. An the madden thing, you really can't even bring that into it considering madden didn't want to press charges, thats why its not mentioned. Maria might of let erica do all those things but she never forgave her. An we will have to agree to disagree about the kidnapping.

Edited July 27, 200718 yr by EricaKane70

Well, in all fairness I WILL NEVER forgive Babe and I understood at the time, why erica did what he did (Lucci rocked that story). on the other hand, Erica had Maddie for SOME time. All i'm saying is that when Erica was all on her soap box Jack should have reminded her about Maddie. It would have been a great, dramatic and historically accurate thing to do. She was being very hurtful to Greenlee without any of the facts and that's still Jack's daughter. I think it's just another example of writers forgetting history.

Actually erica had maddie for less than 4 months compared to babe having miranda for almost a year. Erica went to prison for 4 and half months and only was released because binks was dying. I don't think erica was wrong to put greens on blast considering her behavior about spike.

You can't compare the two because erica had postpartum from losing her baby

she wasn't thinking clearly. You can't say that about babe because she kept miranda because it would hurt jr. Jack can say that all he wants about erica, but he knows the facts of that case because he was the prosecutor of the case.

One could agrue that both Babe and Greenlee had post pardeum depression over losing their children. Greenlee has at several points in time "broke" mentally. (one could bring up throwing Laura over the boat, snatching Kendell's fake pregnancy pillow in the court of law, ect.). Babe also was haunted by terrifying nightmares and clearly had a mental breakdown (twice once with Paul and another time later with Krystal) at the helicopter crash site.

As to thinking clearly well that is arguable as well. Who really thinks clearly after they lose their child? Can anyone really think clearly after a grief like that? No matter how long be it seconds or years later that grief is still crippling.

But Erica was clearly of full mental capcity there no way she could have orcastrated that entire "Sonya" lie if she wasn't mentally intact. She faked adoption papers, flight plans to russia, meetings with adoption adgents and also forced the woman Esther into silience about Maria's child. She did alot to keep Maddie.

As to Jack knowing all about Erica's trial and kidnapping Maddie your right he did and he also knew Erica was guilty as hell for kidnapping.

But Erica was clearly of full mental capcity there no way she could have orcastrated that entire "Sonya" lie if she wasn't mentally intact. She faked adoption papers, flight plans to russia, meetings with adoption adgents and also forced the woman Esther into silience about Maria's child. She did alot to keep Maddie.

As to Jack knowing all about Erica's trial and kidnapping Maddie your right he did and he also knew Erica was guilty as hell for kidnapping.

The sonya lie is what convinced me that she was nuts to begin with, everything she did doing that whole time was nuts. Thats exactly why maria said that she was nuts on the stand. An jack knew as well that she wasn't in her right mind thats why he just gave her a one year sentence. Erica easily could of gotten out of going to prison with her postpartum defense, but she didn't want that and plead guilty. An it was jack that convinced her to plead guilty, so he needs to do the same with greens.

Actually erica had maddie for less than 4 months compared to babe having miranda for almost a year. Erica went to prison for 4 and half months and only was released because binks was dying. I don't think erica was wrong to put greens on blast considering her behavior about spike.

Erica had Maddie for 5 months.

Maria gave birth in January when Erica kidnapped her at gunpoint and drove her up to a cabin because she was angered by her affair with her married husband Dimitri. She wanted to punish Maria because she slept with her husband and she was angered that Maria had her child and she lost her's in a miscarriage. Later that month Erica got into a car accident and that baby was deemed dead. Erica later found the child in the beginning of March and she didn't tell the truth to Maria until mid to late July and even then she was hiding in Adam's basement when Edmund wanted to press charges against her. It was 5 months. Maria had maybe a month to hold her daughter before she died in her airplane accident.

Babe also didn't have Miranda for a year. Babe didn't know until early June at the most. Also Miranda wasn't kept for a year. Babe kept the truth that Bess was Mirnada for 4 or 5 months until she told the truth in her letter because she was being blackmailed out of Pine Valley by JR and she couldn't tell her in person or else JR would throw her and Jaime in jail for a fabricated murder attempt. So Babe wrote a letter to Bianca. Babe thought that Bianca and Miranda were reunited and was completely thrown when she realized that Bianca still thought Miranda was dead and even then Babe ran down to Flordia so fast and told Bianca the immediate truth. Babe kept the truth for 4-5 months. JR was the one who was keeping the truth at that point in the story.

Erica had Maddie for 5 months.

Maria gave birth in January when Erica kidnapped her at gunpoint and drove her up to a cabin because she was angered by her affair with her married husband Dimitri. She wanted to punish Maria because she slept with her husband and she was angered that Maria had her child and she lost her's in a miscarriage. Later that month Erica got into a car accident and that baby was deemed dead. Erica later found the child in the beginning of March and she didn't tell the truth to Maria until mid to late July and even then she was hiding in Adam's basement when Edmund wanted to press charges against her. It was 5 months. Maria had maybe a month to hold her daughter before she died in her airplane accident.

Babe also didn't have Miranda for a year. Babe didn't know until early June at the most. Also Miranda wasn't kept for a year. Babe kept the truth that Bess was Mirnada for 4 or 5 months until she told the truth in her letter because she was being blackmailed out of Pine Valley by JR and she couldn't tell her in person or else JR would throw her and Jaime in jail for a fabricated murder attempt. So Babe wrote a letter to Bianca. Babe thought that Bianca and Miranda were reunited and was completely thrown when she realized that Bianca still thought Miranda was dead and even then Babe ran down to Flordia so fast and told Bianca the immediate truth. Babe kept the truth for 4-5 months. JR was the one who was keeping the truth at that point in the story.

It was four months because Esther had maddie for at least 2 weeks, but I guess you could round it up to 5 months. An I said babe had miranda for almost a year, I didn't say a year I do believe babe had miranda longer than 5 months I will check on that one. Erica never pretended to be maria's friend like babe did with binks. Erica told maria to her face that she kept maddie instead of doing the cowardly thing and writing a letter like babe did. An babe had to tell binks the truth at that point or it wouldn't have be brought to light, she only did it because she was cornered. Don't blame jr for the mess babe created, he was much as a victim as binks was.

Edited July 27, 200718 yr by EricaKane70

It was four months because Esther had maddie for at least 2 weeks, but I guess you could round it up to 5 months.

An I said babe had miranda for almost a year, I didn't say a year

Don't blame jr for the mess babe created, he was much as a victim as binks was.

All I know is that from March to July Erica kept the truth that Maddie was alive and thus kept her away from Maria and then the audience was completely shafted when they killed Maria off after not having nearly enough time with her daughter.

Babe didn't have Miranda for a year thou. It wasn't even close to a year. Since Babe didn't know the truth until June and by October she told the truth in her letter because she was blackmailed into leaving town.

As to JR's role in keeping Miranda. He defintely was one of the characters who was keeping Miranda from Bianca. That's why he was so against them doing a DNA test on "Bess". He knew that he was going to lose her thus why he didn't want Babe to come back to town once he knew what she wrote in her letter to Bianca. That's why he was relived when the doctor said Bianca most likely wouldn't remember anything after he pushed her off the terrece, ect.

I hold alot of people accountable for the babyswitch. Paul Cramer, Babe, JR, Jaime, Tad, ect. half the town knew and kept there mouth closed about it and the only ones who were punished were Jaime, David, Babe and Krystal. Tad was involved and didn't even get his hands slapped. But then again he got off for murdering Madden as well. So who knows. All I know is that not just one person is at fault for the baby switch. I think it's hilarious that all of the parents involved in the storyline were guilty at one point for keeping a child from their parent:

JR, Babe and Bianca all at one point were trying to keep children from their parents.

Edited July 27, 200718 yr by Skin

Of course you can compare the two. It's the same thing. Erica even let Maria think maddie was dead, which in my opinion is worse. Not that I'm defendng Greenlee but I think that it would be the perfect thing for Jack to say.

But Jack was prosecuting the case, and he was the one who convinced Erica to change her plea. So, if you really wanna go there, Jack has no room at all to throw the Maddie kidnapping in Erica's face. He encouraged her to take responsibility for her actions -- and then almost exactly ten years later, is making a shitload of excuses for his daughter. It's just wise if he keeps his mouth shut or else he will appear hypocritical.

And I also have to co-sign the fact that not only did Erica do time in jail for the kidnapping, Maria has NEVER forgiven her. Babe, on the other hand, got off scott-free, had Bianca justify everything she did with the infamous Babe is Love, and then, two years later, is back to being best friends with the woman whose child she stole.

Edited July 27, 200718 yr by R Sinclair

All I know is that from March to July Erica kept the truth that Maddie was alive and thus kept her away from Maria and then the audience was completely shafted when they killed Maria off after not having nearly enough time with her daughter.

Babe didn't have Miranda for a year thou. It wasn't even close to a year. Since Babe didn't know the truth until June and by October she told the truth in her letter because she was blackmailed into leaving town.

As to JR's role in keeping Miranda. He defintely was one of the characters who was keeping Miranda from Bianca. That's why he was so against them doing a DNA test on "Bess". He knew that he was going to lose her thus why he didn't want Babe to come back to town once he knew what she wrote in her letter to Bianca. That's why he was relived when the doctor said Bianca most likely wouldn't remember anything after he pushed her off the terrece, ect.

I hold alot of people accountable for the babyswitch. Paul Cramer, Babe, JR, Jaime, Tad, ect. half the town knew and kept there mouth closed about it and the only ones who were punished were Jaime, David, Babe and Krystal. Tad was involved and didn't even get his hands slapped. But then again he got off for murdering Madden as well. So who knows. All I know is that not one person is at fault for the baby switch. I think it's hilarious that all of the parents involved in the storyline were guilty at one point for keeping a child from their parent:

JR, Babe and Bianca all at one point were trying to keep children from their parents.

Maria didn't have enough time with maddie after she was returned is because the actress left the show. True people knew about the baby napping, but I hold babe responsible, she knew what pain binks was in not having miranda and she just did nothing until she found her precious baby, god knows what she would of done if she wouldn't of found her own child. Jr knew the truth about bess for a couple of days and he was in denial.

I think's it's a joke to say that Maria held hostility towards Erica for kidnapping Maddie. Especially in light of her testifiying for Erica, having invited Erica into her home, having Erica around her children, Maria comforting Erica when Bianca was raped by Micheal and last of all letting Erica into her home at Edmund's funeral and sitting back while Erica blasted her for having her affair with Zach.

Maria may not have said the words "I forgive you" to Erica but Maria was basically a doormat for La Kane and she was rather civil (even on the side of nice) to her on several occassions. It's not as if Maria seethed hatred for Erica she more times then not was civil with her and sometimes even rather friendly towards her. There are more shades of Erica/Maria in Babe/Bianca then some might think.

Babe also didn't have Miranda for a year. Babe didn't know until early June at the most. Also Miranda wasn't kept for a year. Babe kept the truth that Bess was Mirnada for 4 or 5 months until she told the truth in her letter because she was being blackmailed out of Pine Valley by JR and she couldn't tell her in person or else JR would throw her and Jaime in jail for a fabricated murder attempt. So Babe wrote a letter to Bianca. Babe thought that Bianca and Miranda were reunited and was completely thrown when she realized that Bianca still thought Miranda was dead and even then Babe ran down to Flordia so fast and told Bianca the immediate truth. Babe kept the truth for 4-5 months. JR was the one who was keeping the truth at that point in the story.

OMG! That cowardly bitch could've fessed up without leaving damn notes on people's doorsteps. JR wasn't "keeping the truth." He wasn't accepting it as truth, because he assumed Babe was lying. Why wouldn't he? Babe has convinced everyone around her that Miranda was Bess -- and then in a dumbass LETTER says "Bess is Miranda, and by the way, your son is dead!" which was another LIE she allowed people to believe. What? JR was just supposed to take what Babe said about one child not being his and his actually being dead at face value? That was a load and a half to expect ANYONE to accept from a cowardly little note.

It's amazing how a sociopath like Babe -- who was raised to be extremely self-centered and a whore and a user because Krystal instilled this extraordinary sense of entitlement in her -- can be excused. But Ava, who was neglected, verbally abused by her mother, had a drug addict for a father who was later murdered, and has survived life on the streets -- she's just horrible.

I guess it's okay if you're cute and bubbly and commit heinous acts out of love. Even if everytime you talk about your childhood, you can't help but gush and coo and giggle about how much fun it was with you and your mama as your best friend. Your mama, who has taken it upon herself to make her the All-Knowing Queen of LOVING PEOPLE, so she should've known better to teach you its okay to hurt people in the name of love. It's still okay to commit senseless acts of deceit and betrayl.

I think's it's a joke to say that Maria held hostility towards Erica for kidnapping Maddie. Especially in light of her testifiying for Erica, having invited Erica into her home, having Erica around her children, Maria comforting Erica when Bianca was raped by Micheal and last of all letting Erica into her home at Edmund's funeral and sitting back while Erica blasted her for having her affair with Zach.

Maria may not have said the words "I forgive you" to Erica but Maria was basically a doormat for La Kane and she was rather civil (even on the side of nice) to her on several occassions. It's not as if Maria seethed hatred for Erica she more times then not was civil with her and sometimes even rather friendly towards her. There are more shades of Erica/Maria in Babe/Bianca then some might think.

Really? Everytime I say maria with erica she always had a "I wanna kill you biotch" look about her. Erica knows know boundaries with maria and maria I guess was a doormat, but she didn't forgive her. She testified for erica because like I said before she thought she was nuts, that didn't necessarily help erica's trial but she did know that erica had lost her child due to the stress over skye trying to tell erica about maria/dimitri sleeping together. But to compare erica/maria to babe/binks is laughable, they weren't best friends and they certainly couldn't stand each other.

I also wanna add that I loved the erica/kendall/zach scenes today. I loved erica apologizing to zach and kendall about trying to keep them apart. I might not be a zendall fan, but I actually was relieved that she said that because it makes no sense for erica to hate zach.

Edited July 27, 200718 yr by EricaKane70

It's amazing how a sociopath like Babe -- who was raised to be extremely self-centered and a whore and a user because Krystal instilled this extraordinary sense of entitlement in her -- can be excused. But Ava, who was neglected, verbally abused by her mother, had a drug addict for a father who was later murdered, and has survived life on the streets -- she's just horrible.

Even if everytime you talk about your childhood, you can't help but gush and coo and giggle about how much fun it was with you and your mama as your best friend.

Babe wasn't a whore. That's Ava. Babe has never slept with someone for money and that has never been apart of her character. So that's inaccurate and untruthful. As for being a user again I have yet to see her use anyone either. Ava has used people. She has used Di, Sean, Krystal and anyone who has ever been nice to her.

Maybe Babe is self centered. I have never excused Babe's crimes. Babe is wrong for what she has done and she has excepted responsibility for her actions. Ava however hasn't. You say Babe has a sense of entitlement! What about Ava who believes she should be able to get away with anything and everything and still have the world fall at her feet? What about the fact that Ava believes she should have her jobs back at Fusion and The Comeback after acting like a complete ass?!

You say Babe is self centered what about the woman who guilted her autistic sister into giving up a job so she could feel better about herself? Please. I don't even care about Ava. I just think it's a joke that they have a huge cosmetics industry such as Fusion (which is according to the writing on the show the third biggest cosmetic company in the world) begging to get a couple pictures out of a trampy drugged out ho.

Edited July 27, 200718 yr by Skin

Babe wasn't a whore.

LMFAO, babe slept with jamie her first night in pv, slept with josh in a kiddie pool because jr wasn't opening up to her when his sister was feared dead, and was married to paul when she married jr. That ain't a whore. An before you even say yes erica is a whore too.lol

But Jack was prosecuting the case, and he was the one who convinced Erica to change her plea. So, if you really wanna go there, Jack has no room at all to throw the Maddie kidnapping in Erica's face. He encouraged her to take responsibility for her actions -- and then almost exactly ten years later, is making a shitload of excuses for his daughter. It's just wise if he keeps his mouth shut or else he will appear hypocritical.

ERica only owned up to her actions because of that great speech Jack gave her as they waited for the jury to return. He told her how he messed up his closing argument on purpose because he couldn't throw her to the wolves and that he didn' t have it in his heart anymore to practice law because he couldn't do his job properly because of his feelings for her and what was that showing Bianca and Lily. That they can do whatever they want to do and never pay the price for it just because of who they are. It was one of my favorite J/E moments from that storyline. He also promised her that he would stand by her if she did own up to what she did and he did throughout that entire prison sentence and beyond. It is a bit hypocritical of Erica not to remember that and this is why I say she and Greenlee should have been mother/daughter because they are so much alike The other thing Erica should remember is that when she helped return Maddie to Edmund that he eventually forgave her and helped her get out of prison to take care of Bianca. Greenlee's mistake lasted for about 5 minutes. Erica's was for months.Jack will do the same with Greenlee if she owns up to what she has done. I feel sorry for him because he is stuck right in the middle and this really sucks Jack isnt' making excuses for Greenlee but she didn't walk around town flaunting the child right in the face of its mother like Erica did to Maria (and Babe did to Bianca ) which is one of the reasons I couldn't defend Erica in that storyline. In the beginning I could because she was obviously distraught because she lost her own child (another thing she and Greens have in common) but AMC messed up when they had her keep the baby for months and flaunt her in front of Maria. That was awful and inexcusable.

I have no issue with what Erica said to Greenlee because Greenlee deserved it but she also has to remember that she was in almost the very same boat years ago. I remember when Maria reamed Erica when all came out and though I was cringing for Erica, she had it coming.

I was glad Jack reminded Erica that if it were one of her kids lying in that room and had done something wrong she would have defended that child to the bitter end.

Edited July 27, 200718 yr by jackericafan