Frons always manages to make OLTL, the Red headed step kid

[Dr. Jay S.W.]

I just dont understand. For the most part, since the 70's, GH has been on top, AMC second, and OLTL behind, under some CBS Soap. Frank and Dores Hursley created GH, and that show took off, being created first and all. OLTL came next. Agnes Nixon, who I have no repect for, by the way, for he constant and blatant AMC favoritism, and abandonment of OLTL, created AMC after OLTL because she wasn't happy with OLTL. She made the catchy little bible for AMC and the poem and all that crap. Dont get me wrong, I like, or liked AMC but Damn, she just abandoned OLTL. To be honest, when Agnes turned her back on OLTL, so did most other people. For a while OLTL found itself at the bottom. AMC and GH would run their little promos, as did OLTL but you would see Agnes on TV propping the show. I wanted to know, Where the hell is OLTL's love??? Under Behr, OLTL came up in the ratings and surpassed AMC for a couple of weeks. Frons come in and OLTL, doop, right back to the bottom. WHY??? OLTL has the best acting cast, of any of the ABC soaps, I think. Frons was in love with Maurice Benard from the get go, and he wanted to bang Susan Lucci. He never discusses OLTL, or gives spoilers on Soapnet. He recently spoke on TSJ's snub, and it shocked me. He doesnt care about OLTL. Recently, when the soaps were all sucking, when OLTL came above AMC again, what happens....Frons goes on and fired Mctavish. Problem solved. AMC hasnt even got its new HW yet and it surpassed OLTL.Grrr Fire Dena, he wont!!! He needs to show that he cares about OLTL and do whats right. I know I sound like some bitter loyal OLTL fan, and I dont care. Im off to make that phone call to Frons' office.

[danthig]

OLTL never seems to get the respect it deserves along with GH and AMC even though I love those shows,too.According to the ratings archives OLTL had high ratings along with AMC and GH in the 80s and still no respect from the ABC daytime brasses.I don't understand how Agnes Nixon could favor AMC over OLTL so much.According to history Nixon created the AMC bible in 1965 but it was turned down I think by P&G.Then P&G hired Nixon as headwriter for AW in 1967 and there she created the Erica Kane-typed character of Rachel Davis who was first played by Robin Strasser(now Dorian on OLTL).When AW rose up in the ratings Nixon created OLTL and it went on the air in July 1968.Then after the moderate success of OLTL ABC wanted another show but Nixon's husband reminded her of the AMC bible and AMC finally went on the air in January 1970.If was a creator of a soap opera and it first got rejected and then was able to get another bible for a soap on the airwaves I would be over the moon that the network would even give it a chance.But,yet Nixon ignores OLTL ,her own creation like it doesn't exist and that is just wrong.How can the daytime executives act like OLTL doesn't exist on their schedule.Evidently for its ratings to have been high back in the 1980s a whole lot of people seemed to have gave it a second look and stuck around after AMC and before GH.It seems like the ABC shows from 1pm-4pm seem to feed off of each other ratings wise anyway.

[EricMontreal22]

Manyou have Agnes story with OLTL all wrong--and how hard she worked (it's mentioned a lot in the 70s book All Her Children) with OLTl in the 70s to make sure it had a TEAM of writers she respected and loved, why she kept ownership fo the show refusing to sell it to ABC for a long while because again she wanted to make sure it had a really heavy foundation, etc etc.

AMC was the show she created first--it was a bible for CBS I believe in the mid/late 60s. AGnes assumed it was ultimately passed by partly because it was no good and of course even used elements of it at Another World which she made a hit (Rachel, then played by Robin Strasser, was modelled on Erica Kane). So when ABC asked for a soap she created Between Heaven and Hell--ultimtely called OLTL. It was purposefully a bit more urban and "big city" than her AMC. The show wasn't an immediate huge hit but it did do well enough and Agnes started her technique of really groundbreaking stories with it--social issues etc. Then she was asked to make a new show and her husband said she shoudl really try to have a hit withher AMC bible again--and ABC accepted it.

For a while she oversaw both shows but finally she left OLTL because it already had the more established writing team and had found its own path and direction--AMC was still new and wavering. Makes perfect sense.

When AGnes finally creatively "abandoned" OLTL It was being headwritten by someone she publicly called the best in the business, Gordon Russell. It was under him that OLTL was often second highest rated soap and for a brief time above AMC (this was late 70s right before GH became so big and Y&R had fully taken over) and many called the week Gordon wrote with Karen Wolek--Judith Light's character coming out as a prostitute/which tied into a bunch of stories during a trial as the best week of a soap opera *ever*.

It was in the 80s when Agnes had no more rights to OLTL that One Life lost track even though it still did well--that was when Paul Roach was EP and the writers changed many times--the show became ALL about welathy people, a sorta daytime Dallas, and over the top often fantastical storytelling. This was often still very entertaining but a far way from the original vision. Agnes didn't liek this direction and tried to intervene a few times--when OLTL black star Carla Gray (ellen Holly), who had been on since the beginning (in the infamous "passing" storyline) was fired by Rauch basically because he saw the show as a "white person's" show AGnes was horrified and argued with ABC but Rauch still had too much power (she offered to move the actress and character to her new show Loving but an upset Holly wanted out of the business).

Later when OLTL crumbled around the early 90s it was Agnes Nixon who actually told ABC (she was their main daytime advisor at the time) to take a risk and hire a movie producer, who was intereste din the job, for OLTL--Linda Gottlieb who turne dinto a fantastic, brave choice and who then made the decison to hire Michael Malone as headwriter--instigating the second golden era for the show. Michael has even said that he would call *AGNES NIXON* all the itme early on for advice on structuring and characters for his soap.

So to blame her seems beyond bitter and juvenile to me.

E

[Dr. Jay S.W.]

Even with all of that you just said, she dumped OLTL and propped AMC to the fullest extent. Why didn't OLTL get a reunion show with her on it on Soapnet? That's not even the point, forget her. Read the title of my thread, the only thing I am blaming her for is abandoning the soap, Frons is getting the blame.

[psychofan]

Well, with it's current state, I don't blame anyone for treating OLTL like a redheaded step kid. I love AMC and GH is okay, but I'm disgusted by OLTL.

[EricMontreal22]

I know i'm taking you more seriously than you intend but you did just dump on Agnes and I think that's a pretty clueless, juvenile attitude to treat the woman who gave your fave soap a stunning reputation for a brief time and an awesome foundation and even past then spent a lot of time helping the show.

Being a mom AND writing a show AND managing a company that owns both your soaps (as she did till the early 80s when she finally sold them to ABC) is very hard work. For the years she owned OLTL she made sure it had HUGELY talented writers and would fire anyoneshe didn't like--if you think that's abandonment you're messed.

I do agree the show is unfairly treated--I bet you anythign Agnes would ahappily been ona reunion anniversary show on soapnet--if ANYONE asked

[Dr. Jay S.W.]

ok Eric, you got it.

[EricMontreal22]

Meh. I just want a new HW announced SOON

[Dr. Jay S.W.]

Two words. Hogan Scheffer.

[Sylph]

I have two words for you, too: Claire Labine.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

NO! GH needs Claire more than OLTL.

[SlezaksOLTL]

At this point ANYONE would write OL better than this current hack who has dismembered Llanview limb by limb the last three years, there are no legs left any more for OLTL. The only thing OL likes to do is piss off viewers, fire the best actors, backburn the best of the best and write 'events.'

[AMCGio83]

In 1958 with GL at the top of the ratings, Irna Phillips killed off a very popular character Kathy (played by Gina Tognioni in the 70th anniversary recreation) and BAM ATWT becomes the #1 ahow for 20 yyears. All the great creators had their faves. Phillips for instance, never warmed up to Another World and Bill Bell never really paid much attention to The Bold and th Beautiful. The reason OL has always lagged behind is because in the 80s during the golden age of ABC GH was something of phenomenon and AMC was the critical daring darling of daytime (humor, satire, social issues) and had Susan Lucci, which brought it mainstream success outside of daytime. OLTL spent most of the 80s coping GH, losing much of it's identity. Fast foward to the early 90s: GH was still riding the wave of popularity, AMC was at what people called a second golden age (sign) and I think OLTL was just overshadowed despite the terrific stories happening in the early 90s. I think OL has just always been the underdog but I don't think it's all Nixon's fault..It's just, well, soap history.

[Vee]

Every six months some fan has the same epiphany. "Oh my God! Agnes abandoned the show! Damn you Agnes Nixon!" It's always the same. I've been there. But you know what, it doesn't even matter anymore. Agnes did what she had to do to put AMC on the air, which was always her goal. Could she have done more for OLTL, certainly I think so, she shepherded AMC's history and families through much of the '80s, but she didn't do it for OLTL and it's not all her fault. It's just what occurred. OLTL has to deal with it.

I have always believed however that for as shamelessly as OLTL invokes their event stories like Karen Wolek, Carla, etc. every time an anniversary rolls around, the least they could do is have some new Woleks and Halls on the canvas at the same time and try to keep a link to that past. It would not take much.

[ZaraB]

The show HAS no creative vision at the moment -- but that is even beyond Higley's scope. She is reacting to the production environment.d EVERY story is rewritten, and most often transparently to cope with either a contract issue or the infamous ABC agenda - even the in progress arson/racial story already has major gaping holes. Most of the canvas is ignored while the few stars that get airtime also get embroiled in dramatic contract issues. New characters (some even with old names) get huge amounts of airtime while former emmy winners can't buy five minutes of airtime a month - assuming they are not being shoved out the door. Continuity doesn't even last a week, let alone the years Dena needs to tell her stories. Longterm viewers don't only feel disenfranchised or neglected -- many feel spat upon. I don't think Agnes Nixon COULD save it under the current environment even if she were willing.