2007: The Directors and Writers Thread

[Kubla Khan]

Of course everyone, these days, is going to be let down. Even when a show snags a HW with a stellar reputation (like Claire Labine at GL), fans are still let down.

The current climate of daytime TV is just making it impossible for any writer to write a good show. Hell, even Y&R, which had the Bell vision for 30+ years, is now being slaughtered by CBS.

I don't think Ron Carlivati will be that good at OLTL. He may not be a terrible writer, true. He may know OLTL's history, true. He may have a passion for the show. But he's an inexperienced HW working for Brian Frons. He has worked for no other show. He is green, and I think Frons will take advantage of that. RC will probably be the one to execute Frons' vision.

The OLTL actors performed the same song and dance (about the show being good again) when Malone and Griffith returned. Who can blame them? THey were probably promised the same damn thing by the network and the EP. And Malone and Griffith's second stint was at worst embarrassing and at best unremarkable.

And frankly, Carlivati has never worked for OLTL when it was good. In fact, everything has been pretty much a letdown, disappointment, or disaster for the past 10 or so years. Passanante/Laiman? Disaster. The JFP/McTavish eras? Disaster. Malone? HUGE letdown, and a disaster. Higley? Disaster. Tomlin elevated the show to improvement, but I think it didn't last long. RC worked under Claire Labine, but Claire's stint with OLTL was bad. And I don't think it matters if a writer has worked under a soap great. It doesn't mean they'll pick up anything from that great writer. How many years did Megan McTavish work with Agnes Nixon? And we could go on.

Anyway, I guess my point is: Soaps are screwed, and I don't think we're going to see any improvement, anywhere. If we do, it'll last for a whopping six months, and then it will go downhill.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

^Kubla, you rock! I thoroughly agreed with everything you've just said. In today's world, network interference is everything and it just keeps on getting stronger.

[R Sinclair]

No, I know! I would get totally burned out!

But, let me rephrase -- I don't hate hate writing outlines, but I do find myself anxious to get to the script writing process, because to me, THAT'S where the story starts to tell itself, when I start having the characters talk to one another. Sometimes, I find angles in story during that process that I never would've thought of in the outline process if I didn't have these people talking to one another. I find writing breakdowns, outlines, treatments, thrusts, summaries -- whatever -- all very technical. I understand and accept it as being part of the process, but that's not where my heart lies.

That's why I said, getting a smaller staff, you'd have to find people who are either skilled in and/or enjoy doing both stages of the process, because if not, they'd be burned out, because on an hour show, that would come down to writing approximately 100 pages a week, 52 weeks a year!

I think Guza has a good team of breakdown writers on GH, because according to Michelle Patrick, when she was writing for GH, (I forget the source -- will find it later), each writer usually is expected to pump out two episodes per week, as opposed to AMC, where it's one. Not to mention, they have an incredibly small staff of AHW/BWs. Three at GH, while AMC has FIVE (even I think that's WAY too many... Buh-bye, Beall! Take one for the team! )! I think both shows are tied with five script writers, though.

[Sylph]

I'm always reminded about Lemay's tenure and I keep wondering does a great stint last only eight years (I know Steve Frame hates Lemay)? I mean, yes, Bill Bell wrote two shows in paralell for more than a decade, he had ups and downs, but mostly he's a wonderful storyteller. Then, I never heard anyone complaing about any of the Marland's tenures and he was HW for several years on various shows... So maybe it does last longer than that.

So, what I want to ask is - do you think a novelist is a better fit for HW than a playwright? (This is a question for all of you.)

And P. S. I hate dialogue sometimes, because I feel the constant need to polish it.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I don't think it matters what your original writing profession is, in order to be a great HW. Look at Irna Philips, she was neither a playwright nor a novelist. She used many unconventional techniques to write her stories and would often act her scripts out and have her assistant takes notes on whatever she was saying and emoting. As long as a writer is able to tell good stories that are balanced and benefit the history of the show in the long-run (not plot-driven elements used for short-term effect), then everything should be just fine.

[R Sinclair]

Oooooh, interesting question, Sylph! I never thought about it... (that's why I love this thread and all of you guys... gettin' me to think!)

I think the mediums are both different enough from soap/television writing that neither one is guaranteed or have better odds. There are certain rhythms and elements in writing for television that aren't involved in writing plays or novels. Especially in this day and age, considering our shows aren't simply live performances on tape anymore.

I think while a novelist (assuming both the novelist and playwright are quality writers) is good for the position because of his ability to write a long, fleshed out-yet-entertaining story that can hit on numerous beats throughout its arc -- which is what soap storytelling is based on, I think a playwright may also be good because she may have the ability to write drama that can be accessible to a viewing audience as well as story that is able to be put on its feet and taken off the page.

But then again, we know that books and plays adapted into motion picture screenplays are pretty much hit or miss. Some things you can get work with (or get away with) in book or on stage just won't work on screen. So I think either writer would have to be well versed in the television medium as well to avoid writing things that just don't work on screen.

That's my secret joy. Printing out a hard copy, and taking my little red felt tip pen and marking this shit outta my dialog! I enjoy the challenge of, appreciating what's there... but finding a new way or better way to say something! Like I said, for me, it's like finding gold when the dialog reveals to me a whole new aspect that I hadn't even thought of before!

Especially if I'm writing comedy or something with a comedic tone. I'm very observational with my wit/sense of humor, so unless I'm in the moment (either writing the dialog or reading it back), I might miss a delicious joke!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Some more on Irna's unconventional writing method.

[R Sinclair]

She didn't know how to type?

[MichaelGL]

Omg, I love this post.

[Toups]

Y&R listed 4 writers for Tuesday's US episode.

Cherie Bennett & Jeff Gottesfeld & Paula Cwikly and Sandra Weintraub.

Why do they have 4 writers listed? It took 3 people to write the breakdown? Geez. LOL

[R Sinclair]

Okay, help me out here. How are the Y&R credits listed? I never understood who was what, because they just all seem to run together.

[Adam]

I never have been able to figure it out either... at least with AMC it goes breakdown/script writer and I guess in the case of OLTL and GH script writer. Toups a qustion, does OLTL and GH just simply not do breakdowns? They always list their script writer followed by the script editor.

[Toups]

Yeah, GH and OLTL don't list their episode breakdown writers. I wish they would. Damn you, Valentini and JFP!

For Y&R the credits goes like this:

Lynn Marie Latham

Scott Hamner

Natalie Minardi Slater

Lynsey Dufour

Those four are listed everyday.

Then on the next page, the breakdown writer is listed above the script writer. If there is just one writer listed, that's the script writer. But also with Y&R, they have writers jump between writing scripts and writing breakdowns, or they have two writers write breakdowns and two writers writing scripts.

The writing staff is very screwed up......not surprising since LML is the Head Writer! LOL

[R Sinclair]

All shows write breakdowns or outlines. I know that since the late 1990's, General Hospital has always only credited the scriptwriter for that day's episode... which confused the hell outta me when I first started watching in 2000. I didn't get it! They read something like:

Written by

Robert Guza, Jr.

Meg Bennett

Michele Val Jean

Mary Ryan

Elizabeth Korte

Garin Wolf

David Rupel

Dana Herko

&

Michele Val Jean

I was like " why is this Michele woman listed twice? Is this a mistake?!" Because up until then, I had only watched AMC, and they listed all of their writers on staff every day. Never giving individual credit (until 2003 when they started doing the credits at the beginning of the show). So it took me a little while to "get" what GH was doing.

[Sylph]

God knows who rewrote who...