GH's ratings weren't higher because all of the publicity noted prominently that Laura's return was only temporary, and all of the lapsed GH viewers who tuned in for Robert, Anna, and Holly's returns weren't going to be fooled into expecting a plausible storyline for another "legacy" character. Unfortunately those fans missed a well-done storyline, but Guza/Phelps/Frons are now reaping what they have sown. Crap on your fans enough times and eventually they'll just tune you out. Literally.

Whoever pointed out how great the classic GH episodes on Soapnet were was right: back then the show had a great ensemble, actors with chemistry (hello, Slick Jones!), multi-generational families interacting with one another, and most importantly any number of interesting, plausible storylines that often touched on one another. And how great was it to see David Lewis in action as Edward Quartermaine again?! (nothing against John Ingle, who I think is great too in his own right)

I tend to think that the malaise at AMC and OLTL has a knock-on effect on GH's ratings. The ratings for one soap can easily affect others on the same network, something people often underestimate. And some soaps can even play off the success of other soaps for some time.

Exactly. And the comment about ABC's Fan February episodes were exactly the same thing. If Harley and Gus ever make a reference to Harley's brief superhero powers, then I'll be proven wrong, but I highly doubt that'll ever happen.

ICAM. I love how people use that sole reason to pass of GL as this horrible show. That's like passing off a band as completely talentless when all you've heard is one bad song and nothing else.

As for GL's talent, I can only think of one weak link (Michele Ray Smith as Ava).

Again, I agree. But like Rick mentioned, sometimes she even manages to impress me.

Kind of disappointed they (ATWT) didnt go up.

I didn't expect them to go up.

Come December, we'll see a bump.

I am so happy for the rise in the Days ratings. I do think that day by day the quality level of the show continues to rise. I find myself drawn to watch just to see the great evolution of the stories.

My one complaint seems to be in the area of pacing. I have felt a definite lag in the timing of the the main story. Others have questioned this issue in roundabout ways. If we could get more rounded episodes on a more consistent basis, the numbers, I feel would be more even throughout the week.

As for GH, I did enjoy much of the Luke and Laura story. It was somewhat bittersweet knowing from the beginning how brief Genie Francis's stay would be. It is truly a shame that ABC could not have showcased the Luke and Laura story in the way SoapNet did. Going down memory lane with the famed soap couple was just delicious. Not only were we treated to vintage Luke/Laura but we also saw Lee,Gail, Scotty, Rose, Ruby, original Edward, Rick, and Jason's mother-Susan Ramsey. I loved it. But GH definitely left the door open for a Laura return by putting Lulu on the hunt for answers regarding who really killed Rick Webber. Here's hoping that door ushers GF back in soon.

I had tuned out of GL late last year for the first time in a decade. However I got back into it a couple of weeks ago and i am enjoying it immensely...even more so than ATWT (which has been kinda boring lately).

Michelle Ray Smith is improving more and more everyday.

I remember during the Beacon fire I wanted to scream because her acting was so forced, so fake.

But everyday she gets better.

She was starting to remind me of the girl that played Eden a few years ago, but she never improved!

Guza/Phelps/Frons are now reaping what they have sown. Crap on your fans enough times and eventually they'll just tune you out. Literally.

It's the same for AMC to me... in fact, all of ABCd (I think OLTL offends the least in this way, but the hand of Frons is still on that show). There are only so many times Lucy can pull the football out from under Charlie Brown before he says "no more" (okay, he might keep watching, but I won't).

We get promises, but the shows keep spiraling down in the same fashion. It's just not worth watching anymore

regarding AMC's acting. There are some excellent actors on AMC, but bit by bit they are firing them for 'cheaper' people. And as much as some of the newbies might grow into good actors in time, they are getting thrown frontburner immediately, and just can't do it yet. AMC (and all of ABCd) is a mismanaged mess.

I agree. The dailies will be interesting to see this week.

WHERE ARE THE DAILY NUMBERS!! I WANT TO SEE THE RATING FOR LUKE AND LAURA'S WEDDING, NOVEMBER 16 AND 17. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE RATING WAS. THEY ARE STILL NOT POSTED.

THANK YOU!

WHERE ARE THE DAILY NUMBERS!! I WANT TO SEE THE RATING FOR LUKE AND LAURA'S WEDDING, NOVEMBER 16 AND 17. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE RATING WAS. THEY ARE STILL NOT POSTED.

THANK YOU!

Go to page 2 and look at post #33. Also, what's up with the shouting?

Great to see DAYS go up, but AMC & OLTL still deserve to be below GL!!!! GL isn't exactly my fave at the moment, but still it should be ahead of those two!!!

It's the same for AMC to me... in fact, all of ABCd (I think OLTL offends the least in this way, but the hand of Frons is still on that show).

This is what makes Frons different to any other Daytime President, and ABC Daytime different to the other networks.

Whilst CBS is generally considered to have had the best/most consistent track record in Daytime, and NBC considered to have had the worst, and whilst both NBC and CBS have made some less than stellar decisions down the years, ABC stands out for a number of reasons (even though its track record, up until a few years ago, was pretty good):

- ABC is the only network to wholly own all of its soaps, although NBC part-owns Passions. This gives ABC far more control over the destiny of those soaps than CBS or NBC could have.

- Brian Frons is unlike any Daytime President in history in that he exercises virtually totalitarian control over ABCD, going beyond what a Daytime President is meant to do and acting like he should control every aspect of the soaps, creative or otherwise.

In this regard, many of the problems on CBS and NBC soaps are predominantly blamed on writers and producers- whereas with the current malaise on ABC Daytime it goes beyond them, and can also be blamed on ABC executives and other higher-ups.

regarding AMC's acting. There are some excellent actors on AMC, but bit by bit they are firing them for 'cheaper' people. And as much as some of the newbies might grow into good actors in time, they are getting thrown frontburner immediately, and just can't do it yet. AMC (and all of ABCd) is a mismanaged mess.

You see, the problem with Daytime in the past decade and a half is the willingness of PTBs to sacrifice quality for sake of image and younger demos. Hence cheesy/stupid/pointless characters played by talentless models to attract those demographics- well hello, I'm spank in those beloved demos and actually feel INSULTED by this.

It's not as if it will help the industry in the long term. Look at what's happened to the music industry because of this image-before-talent mentality. Back in the 80s, this sort of thing is what led to the whole Milli Vanilli fiasco...

Besides these ratings were for the 13th through the 17th, the same week or week after that the news broke that VI was coming to GL (at least here at SON I think). So if that was the case the ratings should have gone up that week and not gone down.

It wasn't until Thanksgiving week that we found out VI was definitely going to Y&R.

No, word that he might go to GL surfaced a few weeks earlier (not sure what it was here, but I heard and began watching in mid/late Oct). That was the week the soap mags came out with the fact he was NOT going to GL, and the following week we found out he was going to Y and R. These were the first ratings for the week after one of the soap mags said the GL rumor was false. I was looking out for them as I wondered if there would be a drop.

I know it would not account for a full rise (or fall) but certainly some folks left AMC and tried GL due to that (besides me) and a good number probably stopped after they found out the rumors were not true.

One thing about GL, though... unlike some other soaps that spike with gimmicks and then fall again (falling lower each time, as people stop returning once they are fooled AGAIN) GL tends to hold fairly steady, having a strong core of faithful viewers.

GL doesn't air in all areas. What's AMCs excuse? It just plain sucks. And that's not spin.

LOL! I agree... AMC is a soap that's just a mess, storytelling wise and focus wise right now! All of ABCd has similar problems (very similar foundational problems, including storytelling by committee and focus group results... which will mess up any soap). GL certainly would have higher ratings if it aired in all markets and had a consistant time slot. Put it up against GH in all markets, and I wonder what would happen?

You see, the problem with Daytime in the past decade and a half is the willingness of PTBs to sacrifice quality for sake of image and younger demos

and yet this drives away the younger demos. Y and R almost always gets the desired demo, and the only reason CBS as a whole doesn't is some of it's other soaps have an older viewing audience. Y and R has strong vet use, also younger characters, and better writing. They have not sacrified quality (that much) and do better overall. ABCd.. I dunno WHAT they are thinking, but they have driven my two teen daughters away from their soaps. I was the last one watching, and I'm 46.

and NBC considered to have had the worst,

Frons was director of daytime at NBC previously, wasn't he?

David V all I have to say is your remarks were excellent and point on. Too bad people with your knowledge and understanding of daytime were'nt running the show. Instead we have Frons and look where that has taken us.

Are ratings coming out tomorrow? Or will they be delayed until Friday?

and yet this drives away the younger demos. Y and R almost always gets the desired demo, and the only reason CBS as a whole doesn't is some of it's other soaps have an older viewing audience. Y and R has strong vet use, also younger characters, and better writing. They have not sacrified quality (that much) and do better overall. ABCd.. I dunno WHAT they are thinking, but they have driven my two teen daughters away from their soaps. I was the last one watching, and I'm 46.

Exactly- I think some underestimate the demo strength of Y&R, which have always been there or thereabouts.

I'm not sure if people understood the point of me bringing the music industry and Milli Vanilli into this, but I think you can see why the comparison is legitimite- because although MV weren't the only ones guilty of what they did (and it wasn't all the fault of those two guys- but this isn't the right forum to discuss this anyway), they underlined the extent music PTBs would go to manufacture music with a marketable image. Which was the result of the music climate of the day (and even up to now), no doubt.

Hence it grates against our nerves when soap PTBs think that eye candy will make shows more appealing to soap viewers. And you wonder why so many on the soap boards pan the likes of Austin Peck- who though not the outright worst actor on Daytime (Ronn Moss and Drake Hogestyn, two men who have played lead roles on their respective shows for around two decades now, take the cake IMO) simply isn't any good and merely underlines exactly what's wrong.

Frons was director of daytime at NBC previously, wasn't he?

Indeed he was, during the late 1980s. Ironically this was the one time that NBC Daytime looked like getting things right when they had a three-hour soap block of Days, Another World and Santa Barbara. It was probably their best performing soap lineup since their "Golden Age" of the 1970s, but it wouldn't last long either.