Everything posted by dc11786
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Guiding Light Discussion Thread
Regarding 2005, the paycuts hurt, but the show was already running on fumes by January. When the show failed to secure Peter Simon, and refused to recast Ed, the Santa Domingo revisit immediately collapsed with a very unsatsifying conclusion (didn't Tony give Sebastian the serum provided to him offscreen by Ed). This, in turn, also took some of the wind out of the sail of having Beth and Rick have an affair which also was aborted around the same time when Mel confronted Rick and Beth about their feelings and then all three faded into obscurity for a bit. Bill and Olivia didn't have much story. Harley was slowly start to eat the show. Lizzie and Coop had no energy. Sandy, Tammy, and Jonathan had potential, but it was all so poorly executed that nothing could have saved it. If the show really wanted Driscoll, they should have just fired Bailey and put Driscoll in the role and I say this as someone who enjoyed Bailey, and who is appearing in an Infiniti ad on this page as I type, but acknowledged his range was limited. By January, there was no more arguing that David Kriezman was going to go full steam ahead with Tammy and Jonathan without ever really redeeming Jonathan and making sure that everyone looked like trash along the way. The original seduction/deflowering revenge story was twisted and had potential, but going the route of starcrossed lovers wasn't going to work given the backstory. Danny and Marina were boring, but I thought Danny and Blake had potential. Tony and Michelle were fine as a distraction, but Tony never had overstayed his welcome even before the recast. It was frustrating to see Danny and Michelle replaced by Harley and Gus not because I was a Manny fan, but because I found Harley and Gus equally annoying. Linda Dano should have been a back from the dead Elizabeth Spaulding who was protecting Phillip while he recovered from a psychotic break. There were still glimpses of what could be (the Spaulding/Lewis business feud that was building was interesting), but Wheeler and Kriezman couldn't figure out how to successfully produce a show on the budget they had. I often wonder if the show could have survived if it had adopted a "Days of our Lives" 2008-2010 model where they just focused on telling long term stories with beats, emotions, and payoff instead of trying to recreate Doug Marland's "As the World Turns" with the budget of "Valiant Lady."
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Strange Paradise
I don't know if I have mentioned this before, but I think part of the issue the show faced was it changed studios after 13 weeks when the show shifted from Maljardin to Desmond Hall. As a result, I believe some of the early markets who had bought the show would have run out of first-run episodes mid-December 1969 when the new studio didn't even open until January 1970. I haven't given it a good watch in many years, but the show can be fun at times. The early week (the first nine or so) are wildly uneven. All credited to Ian Martin, but clearly there were people ghostwriting as well because some scripts were marvelously witty and well constructed while others floundered. Some of the religious and medical discussions are interesting surrounding death. I know Martin was involved in early episodes of "The Doctors" so I imagine some of that tone came from there. The show also had abandoned most of its early projections (for the first 13 weeks) pretty late in the game as the projections for the unproduced episodes made their way into local papers. The show's past lives storyline set in the 17th century was originally intended to play out longer and would have seen Paisley Maxwell assume the dual role of the witch that she reminded Jacques Eloi des Mondes of. The show is pretty crazy during the sequence with everyone getting offed in the final 3 or 4 weeks of the first cycle before the whole place ends up torched. The reboot helmed by Ron Sproat, like most periods on this show, also had some interesting story elements that were never completely developed. I liked the early iteration of Ada Thaxton as this battered and beaten woman who was desperately holding onto the past (clearly Elizabeth Stoddard) with Jack Creeley's flamboyant villain Lazlo Thaxton plotting with the village witch Irene Hatter (the underused Pat Moffatt). The local coven plotting against the wealthy Desmond clan had some potential, but alas nothing really came of that either. The final run by Harding Lemay is as uneven as anything, but also a lot of fun, but I think that isn't a popular opinion among most of the show's fans. His past lives story was intriguing with Jacques and his bastard half-brother Phillipe and the Desmond curse. Of course, the revelation that devoted housekeeper Raxl was the source of all the family's woes was as left field as anything else the show produced. I'm glad it got a rerun a decade or so ago.
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GH: Classic Thread
I'm watching the early months of 1993. Riche has been there for a year and Bill Levinson is head writing. I find the show mostly enjoyable, and fairly strong. The only story that I have absolutely no interest in is the Bill/Holly/Richard Halifax art theft triangle. Prior to starting January 1993, I watched a couple of strings of episodes from 1991-1992 and Bill Eckert is such a hot mess of a character that his story being the weakest in 1993 is not the biggest surprise. It is disappointing to see Emma Samms wasted in such a nothing plot considering I found her quite charming and delightful in the March 1992 episodes I watched where Holly had almost no actual plot, but was just living with Mac and Robin while they all await news about the fate of Robert and Anna (Riche had tried to get Rogers and Hughes to return right after they resigned when Monty was still in charge). The biggest issue with the story is it so disconnected from the rest of the canvas. The rest of the show is fun. The Ryan Chamberlain stuff isn't necessarily my favorite, but Lindstrom is engaging as the Ted Bundy-esque Ryan and Kristina Wagner has such energy as Felicia. York and Wagner are very cute together and play the adventure angle well, and the overall plot impacts the canvas much more than the Bill and Holly adventure. I was very surprised to see a dark haired Woody Brown as the rapey orderly Jimmy Montogomery. Lorna Scott (who I recognized from "Sordid Lives") plays Felicia's friend as the institution. There's a bit too much liberty in the story (Ryan's involvement with the mental hospital is a strech and testifying in Felicia's hearing seems wildly unethical). I do appreciate though that as batshit crazy as Ryan working at the psychiatric facility is, it gives Steve Hardy an excuse to finally give it to Ryan aftetrying to give him the benefit of the doubt. In where I am at now, Felicia and Mac have just escaped so I'm curious to see where it goes. I like the intersections with the custody of Lucas, which is a really engaging plot. In the first episodes I received, Lucas has had a severe diabetic episode which is picked up on by Bobbie, who rushes him to General Hospital in effect saving his life. I like that Tiffany and Bobbie are able to put aside their differences and just be there for Lucas before resuming their animosity. The escalating tension between the two women is interesting, but it seems to have a Bill Levinson trademark that I struggle to get past. There is always a sleazy misogynist angle to so many of the stories. Of course, Tiffany makes sure the social worker learns that Bobbie used to be a hooker, which Tiffany's lawyer John Harmon is sure to bring up in court. Bobbie, since it is now open war, has hired Marco Dane to dig up dirt and discovers Tiffany, during her early acting days, starred in the "Debbie Does Dallas" inspired "Trixie Does Tennessee" or something to that effect. I appreciate the exploration of Tiffany's acting days, but it just seems to be another chance to exploit women. The overall arc though is strong, and the desire on Bobbie's part to be friends is important. Were people upset at the way Tiffany was presented? Her desperation is a lot, but creates a great trajectory for the next few months as Tiffany and Sean's marriage spirals out of control. The emotional stories are really the best. Dominique's tumor is heartbreaking. There are so many beats that are just very sweet. The Dominique/Lucy relationship that develops is probably the biggest surprise in terms of what was going on at the time. It is a little jarring at first (I knew it was coming but it really comes out of no where with Lucy accusing Dominique of trapping Scotty with a (nonexistent) pregnancy. Lucy's humanity has been a nice arc to see. Dominique and Scotty's Valentine's Day wedding is really lovely complete with Lucy again playing savior, Michael Lynch returning to sing a brief refrain from "Someone to Watch Over Me," and beautiful vows. I really liked the way Lee was incorporated into the ceremony and I appreciated the little moments at the reception with Lee and Gail and Steve and Audrey talking about marriage. I'll have to continue to gush about Karen and Jagger another time and try to figure out how I feel about Jenny Eckert and the Jack Kensington saga. I am happy A.J. is back because the Quartermaines were in limbo wihtout him. And I am not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but early Brenda Barrett is one of the most unlikeable characters I've encountered. I've never gotten so much pleasure out of a character's unhappiness. And when you got me cheering for Jenny Eckert, we got a problem.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
Someone shared some things with me a while back. Unfortunately, from my memory, the main things I recall were the three main stories were outlined: (1) the Kelly / Joe romance with Joe clearing his name, (2) Gina's search to gain access to her son via relationships with both C.C. and Mason, and (3) the youth summer story in Los Angles. The L.A. storyline was intended to cash in on the summer Olympics which I believe were to be hosted in Los Angeles that year. Also, the Hollywood story gave the network the opportunity to cross promote (if they so chose) with primetime by having Danny and Ted get stunt jobs on a NBC series like "Hill Street Blues." The main things I recall were mostly about missing parts or serious deviations in the story. Sophia's return was not a part of the original story. Lionel isn't mentioned much. There seemed to be a strange connection between Augusta and C.C. that was never completely clarified. C.C.'s motive for pushing Peter and Kelly together was not just to keep Kelly away from Joe, but because C.C. had found her at least on one occasion on the verge of a nervous breakdown after Joe was arrested and was afraid she would completely go over the edge. Santana was suppose to learn that Gina had custody of her son while Gina was living out of town. Gina would have infilitrated the DeMott household posing as the maid and befriending her son. Mason would discover her and threaten to reveal Santana's true identity which would have lead to a relationship between Santana and Mason by necessity. I was mostly surprised, and not surprised, to see that of the Perkins and Andrade families, only Santana and Joe were fleshed out and given significant story. I don't think Amy was mentioned at all. Nor were any of the other Andrade children. There was a footnote at one point that John Perkins at some point could become in a corrupt trade union in a story resembling "On the Waterfront." The biggest surprise was the reveal that Warren was Channing's killer and that it was all based on the gold coins story. There was no mention of Channing being Lionel's son either, but, since neither Lionel or Sophia were mentioned, this should be no surprise. I believe I may have only seen part of the "Santa Barbara" bible. I think there was a second part outlining characters which I didn't get a chance to look at. I don't have it anymore unfortunately, so this is all form memory.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
Part of the issues with characters like Jade and Laken were so much of the foundational storytelling and characterization of other characters (and Jade) seemed to shift between the story bible and what appeared on air in the first few months. From what I've seen, Jade is initially suppose to be a vixen, or at the very least a rebel, not a heroine. I believe casting Melissa (Brennan) Reeves was a mistake as it wasn't really a role that suited her. In the early weeks, Jade used her sexuality to get what she wanted from the boys her own age and even was able to win over her own father with doting words and affection. It was an interesting contrast to Marissa and Joe's relationship where Marissa was so desperate to keep Joe away from Kelly that it caused strain in her own relationship with John. This all seemed to fall away though pretty quick. What is interesting to me is Ted was not originally the sort of goofy All American kid that Todd McKee played. He was a bit of a darker character and casting McKee, like Brennan, seemed to change the direction of the character a bit. This is why Ted was suppose to become involved with the Jackie Baldwin character, who I think had a different name or no name in the bible. Motherless Ted going after an older woman played into some of those intimacy issues he had due to the absence of his mother from his life. The one thing I noticed about McKee's Ted is there seemed to be very little impact in terms of Channing's death on who he was as a person. With that said, the original outcome of Channing's murder would have definitely impacted Jade and Laken's dynamic and not in a way that could be replicated with Kelly, who was originally much more of a neurotic in the bible. Once Eden, original more of a bitch, and Warren were married, it was to come out that Warren had in fact killed Channing Capwell, Jr. before Warren himself ended up dead. Laken's brother being the reason that Jade's brother went to jail surely would have had reprocussions for both women and Ted if they were all involved together. Laken definitely lacked dreams and desires, but I'm not sure if anyone really worked in the Lockridge family. Lionel was off on excursions, Augusta pampered herself, and Warren was a lifeguard so he could go shirtless all the time. Maybe if Laken had been interested in financials and became interested in that world it would have been something.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
I believe Teri Keane’s original run was through either January or June 1984. I feel like they shipped Pat and Rose Donovan to Florida in January but that Keene as Rose appeared a few times as Rose afterwards. Keane returns as Rose Donovan at some point in 1990 around the time Jackie Babbin arrives, I suspect. She appears in recurring bits through November 1991. For Christmas 1991, Stacey says her parents are visiting Doug in California.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
I love late 1991. I think the quieter show that was more about characters relationships and the fall out was very engaging. By comparison, I think the structure to the plots in 1993 may have been stronger, but there were often tonal issues that I struggled with. For example, Shana and Leo were an intersting couple. The Mason-Julia baby contract redux was intriguing as was Ava as the third wheel, but so much of the day to day material was hammy. There were a lot of dream sequences, which, while funny at times, took away some of the dramatic weight of the story. Taggert might have had a thing about Elvis. She was also at the helm when Todd Jones as going to be an Elvis serial killer. I don't like the train sequences. Before I read your comments, I hadn't been able to put my finger on why. Guza and Taggert attempted to make "Loving" sexier, but at times it was just sleazier. I think Jean LeClerc and Lisa Peluso have chemistry, but Jeremy and Ava don't work. I feel like Jean LeClerc was originally intended to be in a quad with Stacey, Trisha, and Trucker, but Noelle Beck's decision to depart the show jettisoned those plans. Jeremy's best pairing was Gwyn, but it was such a B-story at best. Ava evolves a lot over the different performers and writers. Ryan Munisteri played Ava as almost a Delia Reid type where she could be very nasty and lash out, while also being sympathetic at the same time. Walsh saw Ava as a more desperate, lonely character who was afraid of being alone after Paul left her so she immediately got into a relationship with Leo even though there wasn't much story to tell between them. Taggert and Guza made Ava a screwball schemer as if she was being played by Lucille Ball. Nixon's Ava felt more grounded. Her Ava just wanted to live a peaceful life without all the schemes and the complications that came from the way she was and the way things would be if she returned to Alex. I am curious where Ava would have gone if Nixon had stayed and Ava took control of AE stock based on her grandfather's role in the development of Lady Alden Soap.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
@Keri Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've mostly been watching random episodes I've acquired on DVD over the last several years, but I did catch some clips on YouTube of Cruz and Eden from (I think) 1990 where Robert has been shot and Cruz is frustrated at Eden's need to be at Robert's bedside. They have a rather frank conversation where Cruz pontificates that Eden is two people: (1) the loving wife and mother who wants security and (2) a woman who deplores the monotony of domestic life and desires a need for adventure. I know that the previous writers had set up the split personality plot. I assumed that was there original philosophy. I've only seen small bits of Suzanne, but now it makes sense why A Martinez is doing the Grant Alexander I'm looking for my contact routine earlier in the episode where Cruz stumbles upon Suzanne/Eden. @j swift I find your thoughts on Mason intriguing. I have very little of 1990, but in most of the material I do have from late 1990 Mason (and Julia) are dealing with the environmental group, the Blue Sky Brigade, and the group's protest against the development of the Oasis as it was land they felt needed to be protected. Terry Lester's Mason has a rather nice scene where he tells Julia he has for the first time in his life gotten things together and he still wants her by his side. I know Julia, in what I have, joins the Blue Sky Brigade and then later, in stuff I don't, is raped by Dash Nichols. Lester's Mason still seemed like a character who was trying to work past his daddy issues without actively loathing C.C. I know I've heard people complain about how Mason and C.C. were getting along at that point, but wasn't Mason's animosity with his father crucial to his character? Similar to how fans struggle when Sami Brady isn't actively flailing about her mother and John Black. I would also argue that some of the Mason/Dobsons issues stemmed from the fact that Mason was a doppleganger for Bridget Hursley Dobson who had a very antagonistic relationship with her own parents. I'd be curious if the story of C.C.'s two wives had anything to do with how Frank Hursley left his own family by his first wife to build another with Doris. I think Pamela's return as the catalyst for the animosity returning between C.C. and Mason makes sense, but maybe the big 'revelation' that C.C. knowing Pamela was released should have been knowledge to Mason before the return to form. Mason, privately, acknowledges to C.C. after the dinner party that they had gone some time where they had gotten along, but, in the end, Mason's perception of C.C.'s omnipotence is what kept them at odds. The final straw seems to be that C.C. not only helped Pamela get released, but made it contigent that she not speak to Mason as a stipulation of that release. I believe in the weeks leading up to the Dobsons arrival C.C. had voiced objections to Mason seeing Cassandra, which may have also been a part of Mason's state of mind during the dinner party. It would seem to me that C.C. was meddling a bit, but maybe not to the point to explain Mason's behavior prior to the party rather than afterwards. An underlying piece of the dinner party that often is overlooked is the story about Rosa and Ruben's land. I believe it is later revealed that the land in question is part of the Oasis, which was Mason's shining achievement that not only revitalized his belief in himself, but was a major source of pride for C.C. The Andrades coming into some of the profits of the Oasis is a very intriguing idea given the plans to bring back Santana and pair her with C.C. If Santana had come back and part of C.C.'s motivation to reconnect with Santana had to do with the land, I think that is something that would have strengthened C.C.'s point of view regarding his decision to rekindle a romance with Santana. It would have also been interesting to see if Rosa would have agreed with the Blue Sky and wanted the land protected. Finally, I would have loved to seen Ruben return to unsettle whatever deals were made between Santana, Rosa, and C.C.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
Thougths regarding Eden's multiple personality storyline... I'm watching various points of the Dobsons' 1991 return which I know most people don't like. I find it fascinating in the way there was such a strong attempt to reincorporate elements of the show that had been abandoned for so long. I rewatched the Capwell dinner party episodes written by Patrick Mulcahey in the first month of the Dobsons return. There is a certain brilliance of having Eden completely losing it while C.C., Sophia, and Kelly deride Pamela for her mental health issues. Marcy Walker plays it all as very heart breaking. While watching this sequence, there are times that one of Eden's personalities is speaking to her about Sophia lying. We are suppose to assume this is Lisa, but, based on later points, I am curious if it isn't both Lisa and Channing, Jr. talking to Eden during various points of the dinner party. Also, regarding mental health, Mason Capwell is not a mentally stable character, but I appreciate that he isn't treated like a psychopath. He is a black sheep and a bit of a pariah at different points, but the fact that he is mentally unwell is treated with much more respect than I think I've seen bestowed to many other characters. The potential fear, is it even addressed on air?, that Mason may end up like Pamela is definitely a thread that I see playing out. The sequence where Eden as Channing decides to shoot Sophia is wild. I can only imagine what people thought watching this for the first time unspoiled. The crossdressing is definitely a call back to Sophia's own little stint as Dominic. The trigger being Eden watching Sophia "drown" was interesting. I think Eden returning after shooting Sophia to call for help was a nice way to wrap that part of the story, but I can see why fans of Eden and Cruz would be upset that this is how the story comes to a conclusion.
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Illustrated Soap Ads - the good, the bad, and the oddities
I'm not sure if this will work, but this is a clip from "The Road of Life" from the late 1940s when the show shifted to a spy plot that involved the death of Carol Brent and the arrival of an imposter Carol, who's real name was Beth Lambert. The spy ring that Beth was involved with was trying to take the government project that Dr. Jim Brent had been working on. https://www.newspapers.com/clip/9510964/st-cloud-times-saint-xloud-mn-dec-2/
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Central Park West Discussion Thread
@te. is right. Carrie Fairchild is not only the highest paid columnist at "Communique" by a wide margin, but she has a ridiculous expense account. Stephanie was known for being a by-the-numbers editor who was able to rearrange the budget to get the most out of the resources. Stephanie is unaware that she is coming into a family squabble. In the pilot, Allen Rush makes Stephanie an ultimatum: Carrie loses her job or Stephanie loses hers. Regarding Carrie's column, it is basically an excuse for her to go to the Zinc Bar ("the place run by drag queens" as Gil informs us) and write off her drinking as a business expense. Carrie isn't a writer. Allen just refuse to pay her to do nothing. Carrie could go work at the Globe with Alex, but there is no way she could maintain the lifestyle she was accustomed to. Though, something I hadn't considered, that @j swiftmade me consider, is that Carrie's position as Senator Fairchild's daughter should get her some sort of status that would make her marketable even if she wasn't very good as a writer. It might have been interesting to see Carrie have to actually work at a real magazine (maybe run by Adam Brock) where she was forced to acknowledge her inadequacies. Carrie and Peter both received trust funds from their late father, the Senator, but Carrie admits that she blew through hers years ago while Peter has managed his better. Allen has been funding her lifestyle through the job, but Carrie really only cares about her job at Communique because it is how she keeps her allowance. On the other hand, Rachel Dennis arrives in New York and immediately is jockeying for Stephanie's job. Rachel needs money. She knows Carrie from boarding school where she was on scholarship. Carrie informs Stephanie bluntly that Rachel screwed over her predecessor in her previous jobs to get ahead. Rachel's purpose for going after Stephanie is to be the next editor at Communique. The more I watch, I think Rachel would have been the next Mrs. Allen Rush as Allen had a history of sleeping with his editors. The office politics stuff is probably what I remember missing most when the show transitions from "Central Park West" to "CPW."
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Central Park West Discussion Thread
I didn't watch "Central Park West" during its original run, but I was very excited to discover in either late 1999 or early 2000 that CPW was being rerun on a now defunct local cable outlet called Metro. When I first found the show, the episodes were somewhere towards the middle (7-9) and the show soon suddenly shifted to the revamp. So messy. I've caught most of the show over the years, but I am not sure I ever did a proper watch until now. The show is just visually stunning. The look of the show is spectacular. The shots of New York are gorgeous and the whole packaging (the opening, the look of the title card) is very slick. The music is very evocative (for that era). I think the start is incredibly strong. Having never properly watched, I didn't understand why people felt that the show needed to slow down. It's face gave the show a telenovela feel that I appreciated, but, as I settled into episode 5, the last episode I've seen, I'm starting to get it. The Mark/Stephanie/Carrie story is great. Stephanie is a fish out of water in the New York publishing world. Nothing makes that more clear than Linda's response to Stephanie's query about whether or not Allen Rush always slept with his editors. Mariel Hemmingway isn't bad as Stephanie, but given the amount of money she was more than likely being paid, I could see why she was going to be downgraded. Stephanie is a fun character, but the show didn't need a name to carry that character. Stephanie's internal struggle over how to handle everything is great. The machinations of Carrie Fairchild are the true highlight of the show. Carrie learning about Mark's work and luring him onto the plane during Stephanie's arrival party (complete with drag queens, something I have overlooked repeatedly in my original viewings) with the stunning trip over New York City with the U2 song blaring is just wonderful. The Stephanie and Carrie animosity just plays well so that every natural beat (Stephanie cutting Carrie's column) leads to a very real consequence (Carrie having more time to work on Mark's play). Carrie playing her mind games with Mark is wonderful. Tom Verica plays Mark's naivete/learned helplessness well. The allure for Mark is very clear; not only is Carrie attractive, she is available when Stephanie isn't. Every move Stephanie is making is only pushing Carrie closer and closer to her goal. By episode 5, the goal seems more complicated. Stephanie has arranged for Ian Walker to offer Mark a $10,000 option for his play, which, in effect, is meant to end Mark and Carrie's working partnership. When Mark agrees to meet Carrie at the hotel bar only for her to shift it to a suite, it is increasingly clear that Carrie's motives have changed. At some point, it seems like we are suppose to believe that Carrie has actually started to develop feelings for him. I could see how Carrie would be drawn to a fellow outsider like Mark. Or maybe Carrie was just excited to make her mark (no pun intended) on the world. In the Fairchild/Rush clan, Carrie has been in the shadows of her brother Peter all her life. Producing Mark's play is a chance not only to screw over Stephanie, but also to make a name for herself. Mark, and truly Stephanie, are taking that away from her. Madchen Amick is dynamite playing Carrie's hurt when Mark casually ends their relationship. Something I had notice, but never really thought about, was that Carrie really doesn't have any romantic interest in anyone other than Mark. She slept with that rando in the pilot and very coolly told him she wasn't even sure she wanted to go out with him again when he sought out an invite to the Fairchild lung cancer gala. The dynamics in the Fairchild/Rush family are dynamic, but underutilized. Carrie and Peter's relationship is probably the strongest and best played so far. Peter is the golden boy balancing his nonchalant honesty with a true sense of entitlement. Carrie showing up at the lung cancer gala smoking with Linda laying into her for her callowness is a great moment. The pain Carrie shows privately with Peter is also very real. I forgot how complicated, or maybe noticed, her character is. Carrie and Allen's relationship is delightfully twisted. Neither has any use for the other one. Carrie certainly doesn't want a father figure, and Allen would rather never have to see Carrie again. Hiring Stephanie to run Carrie out of the office (and possibly out of New York?) is an interesting move. The other Fairchild/Rush event was a brilliant moment where Carrie invites everyone to lunch (tricking Peter) so that she can solicit money for Mark's play. It's a great time. I wish there were more like this, but I don't remember many from my previous viewings. Peter is a dope. I appreciate that they try to make him earnest and Barrowman is a capable actor. For me, the issue is Melissa Errico, who overplays everything. If anything, Errico's character was the one who needed to be written out sooner rather than later. I like the idea of Alex Bartoli and the plotting back and forth between Alex and Peter is great. It's just Errico goes too big on so many of the moments. In terms of plotting, I can see where they were going... Alex and Peter would get together while Nikki and Allen's relationship would fall apart leading Nikki and Peter to grow closer. In response, Allen would allign himself personally and professionally by luring Alex into Communique while also pressing Alex to break up Nikki and Peter so that he could have Nikki for himself. I'm just not sure Errico made that work. I am now starting to suspect that Kylie Travis' character may not have been brought on so much because of Hemmingway's stiffness but rather because of Errico's broadness. The Nikki/Allen plot also would have benefited from some slowing down. Nikki using Allen as a sugar daddy to fund her art gallery is great. Also, its pretty much established in the pilot that Nikki and Peter use to be a thing ("you said we were going to stay friends"). Nikki and Peter would have been fun. I wish that had been pursued with more energy. Nikki as Allen's mistress is great, but part of the issue is I don't think the fallout is there. Does Carrie react to the revelation that her best friend is sleeping with her stepfather? Lauren Hutton is more lively than I've seen her in many other works. I think she comes to life as Linda, who is such an underdeveloped character. While researching, I came across an article where Hutton stated she had a short term contract with CPW (probably the same one Hemmingway had) and that she was really only doing this because she had a syndicated talk show she was launching that fall. In these early episodes, it shows. Linda is a non-entity though there are some natural places to bring her in. I would have been interested in her figuring out the plot with Mark and Carrie and would have loved it if because Linda suspected Allen and Stephanie were romantically linked that Linda did a bit of manipulating in whatever way she felt best. Ron Liebman's Allen Rush is a great antagonist. The relationship with Nikki gives him another side which I appreciate. My favorite Allen scene though is when Peter arranges a lunch with him (everyone seems to "need a meeting with Allen Rush immediately") and Allen assumes that Peter isn't looking to curry favor only to discover Peter wants Allen to get Alex rehired at the Globe. Is Allen really the wicked stepfather or have his stepkids put him in the role? Linda and Allen's relationship is also underplayed and it would have been interesting to see that fall apart especially as a hint of things to come between Mark and Stephanie if Carrie is to succeed. I also think that Allen would have ended up with Rachel Dennis if only temporarily. I think Rachel would have been the next editor that Allen slept with and I almost wish that it had been Rachel married to Allen when the show went off the air and Allen was left for dead. Rachel as the sole inheritor of the rush empire would have been great. Kylie Travis is a great addition. She fills several holes. She increases the interoffice dynamics between Carrie and Stephanie while also providing a real threat to Stephanie at Communique. Carrie hated Stephanie, but she wasn't going to be able to go toe to toe with her at the office. Rachel swoops in with a devious plot to cast out Stephanie and assume the reigns of Communique for herself. Travis just makes Rachel such a fun manipulator. I don't know what to say about Justin Lazard's Gil. He is just there. The story with Kim Raver comes to an abrupt conclusion, but I am not really sure if there was much more to play with Deanna. I think the set up for Gil is interesting as Nikki declares that Gil is a toxic bachelor. It would have been better to see that play out. Maybe if Alex targeted Gil to get close to Peter, but got close to Gil and then was super hurt by Gil's behavior the Deanna Landers plot would have been more effective. There are also moments where I can't help but wonder if they were going to play with Gil's sexuality. I think it would have been more interesting if Gil's desire to be Peter Fairchild was based in a sexual desire to be with Peter. They never would have gone there in 1995. I'll probably make it through the next five or so episodes by the end of the week.
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Primetime Soaps
@slick jonesThanks! @Forever8I was unaware that Richard Dean Anderson and Sela Ward were once involved. It's just an odd choice to constantly feature Hilary's bedroom as a central meeting place for story. Hilary and Simon are great. When Patrick O'Neal was playing Harlan, they were a great family unit. I even like Jill St. John as Deanna trying to squirm her way in as the next Mrs. Harlan Adams. I feel almost nothing for Robert Vaughn's Harlan. @SoaploversI have to agree with your mom for the most part. There is setup for something interesting, but it's never truly achieved. I'm rounding the bend to the final stretch of seven episodes and seems like things are slowly changing for the better. The espionage stuff is mostly now set in Adams Industries and the Navy is being downplayed, which I think it smart. Alexi's attempts at defection give Alexi and Leslie something very tangible to play with some very real ramifications. The 180 degree turn of Andrew Stevens' Glenn Matthews from sap to low level powerplay is very right field, but it sorta works (or I sorta want it to work?). David Marquette is around trying to romance Maggie and that seems to give Thomas a real challenge that wasn't being provided by Harlan. The one thing I do struggle with is the relationships between characters are not as well developed as it should be nor the individual characterization. I love Deanna and Celia, but it would be interesting to see Deanna with the other girls or even more with Thomas. So much of Deanna seems underplayed. Her season long divorce has played entirely offscreen and why she had to be a Naval wife I'm still not sure. Harlan and Tom's relationship seems to be friendly adversaries, but I wish that piece was played more. I also don't know what makes Kay Mallory tick and was pretty shocked when she announced at some point she was a teacher around episode 7 or so (maybe it was mentioned earlier and I missed the reference). I've paused on "Emerald Point" for a bit to watch some of "Central Park West."
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
Thanks for tagging me @DRW50. It seems like post-Marland, Trisha and Steve are heavy into the action heavy stories. I don't think the idea of Nick Diantos was a bad idea. @j swiftpointed out that the show lacked a longterm male antagonist and Nick certainly would have filled the role. The murder trial wraps up fairly quickly. I didn't make it to the end, but I imagine it ends with the real killer unveiling themselves, and it has lost pretty much all the steam by then. In the broadest sense, Nick was a precursor to Paul Slavinski with the mob ties and the casino. A Nick type would have done better in the long run with Ava, but I could see the potential in a Nick-Ava story post- Trisha as it would create some tension in both the Trisha/Steve story and the Ava/Tony Benedict story. As a reminder... there is an episode from, Monday, March 2, 1987, online. Nick is killed on Friday. I think the two year period post-Marland is pretty tough. Very few characters are sticking around for anything more than a single storyline. To be fair, the show had undergone two significant story shifts prior to Marland's departure in January 1984 and November 1984, but the last shift seemed to set up a pretty strong canvas. Once those stories petered out (Ann/Dane/Alden Enterprises, Ava/Jack/Stacey/baby Johnny, Lorna / Linc, Noreen's return) a lot of the show's energy seems to be gone. I'm sure there are other characters, but almost no one new is around long in this period. Rebekah and Zona Beecham are introduced to enhance the Lorna/Linc story shifting the source of conflict from Lorna's modeling ambitions and Linc's dealing with Dane and Alden Enterprises to familiar conflict regarding Linc's secret wife Zona and her phantom pregnancy before she ends up dead. Lorna undergoes the trial (as Susan Walters departs and O'Hara takes over) and the Beechams are dumped (only for Judd Beecham to pop up briefly to romance Ava in the summer of 1986) and to fall for her attorney Zach Conway. Zach and Lorna's relationship is complicated by Zach's teenage daughter, Kelly Conway, and her lovelorn aunt Jane Kincaid. The initial Kelly-Lorna conflicts concludes with Lorna and Zach marrying and them leaving for a honeymoon they never return from. Kelly, in turn, has a younger set built around her with Rob Carpenter (raised by a single alcoholic mother and embracing the punk rock aesthetic), Ned Bates (brother of Curtis' wife Lotty, who started off as Lorna's prison cellmate), and April Hathway (secret prostitute) before the show quietly dumps Kathleen Fisk's Kelly to replace her with rich bitch Kristen (played by Teri Polo). Everyone in that story is out by the end of the year. Ava jumps from a shortlived marriage to Linden Ashby's Curtis in early 1986 to a romance with Judd Beecham in the summer of 1986 to an end of the year romance with Tony Benedict. None of the men playing these roles were on the show long. In Ashby's case, he was only on slightly longer than his successor Burke Moses who comes on around November 1986, but goes out on leave in August/September 1987 when Moses is cast as the lead in a Broadway show only for the temporary leave to turn into a permanent absence. I'm not sure if Moses returns in October/November for Judith Hoag's departure as Lotty, but Luke Perry follows her out the door as Ned when April announces there is no chance for them and she's jumping ship. Agnes Nixon brings back Doug Donovan in the form of Victor Bevine and slides Doug into Mike's old place as Shana's placeholder because she cannot have the priest. I'm not even sure when the show dropped Victor Bevine to be honest. A Doug and Lily pairing would have at least caused a little unrest in Stacey and Jack's marriage had the character been around in 1988. There are a series of single story villains that are introduced without much in terms of redeeming qualities. Jeff Trachta's Hunter Belden is scummy as hell. He is brought on to cause grief for Keith and Dolly, but all three characters end up being removed from the story once Dolly's child is located. Steve Fletcher's Alan Howard torments and kidnaps April Hathway the following year. I guess you could even say Nick Diantos ends up falling into that role too by romancing Trisha and getting her hooked on drugs. All the characters in the casino set are shortlived (Nick, Tony Benedict, Jenny Baylor) and that story just adds an element that doesn't work for the "Loving" canvas as it is at that point in time. Maybe if they had Shana moving into the district attorney role, that might have generated some story, but overall, it's a big nothing. Mary Lynn Blanks' Jenny just seems to be in a string of second tier blond working class heroines the show cycles through (Rita Mae and Dolly). "Clay" Alden and Lily Slater returning to Corinth seems to be the first smart casting moves in terms of building something longterm in a while.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
When I read the bible a few years back, I felt the show was underdeveloped. There were the three main stories and among those stories only a couple of them were lead characters. I didn't get a sense of a majority of the characters and there was little sense of major plot movement in several of the stories. Part of the issue is, as you stated, the network was skittish so a lot of the show's more provocative story elements from the bible (the incest, the interracial relationship, the impotency) as well as some of the stuff from onscreen (the attempt at an AIDS storyline) were excised completely from the show which left you with something that was incredibly generic. It was replaced by very traditional soap fare which wasn't always the most compelling material. Yet, because this was the era of love on the run, the character based material would have seemed unique to some extent.
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Search For Tomorrow Discussion Thread
I heard a little while ago and still processing this. As a queer kid growing up, "Batman" was my favoirte superhero. I loved the Tim Burton films and later became enthralled with "Batman: The Animated Series" because it embraced the Burton aesthetic. Also, Kevin Conroy's voice was so perfect for the part. It meant a lot to me to later learn that he was an out gay man more than I can put into words. When the Pride comic book series came out this year, I bought it to read Conroy's story. It was very poignant. It actually hurts a bit because I wonder when he learned he was sick in reference to when he wrote that story. Also, for Conroy to be a gay man who survived the AIDS pandemic in his 20s, this seems cruel. It's hard to lose one of the queer elders. In terms of "Search for Tomorrow," Chase should have been such a mess, but Conroy kept the character together. His chemistry with Robert Curtis Brown was excellent. Conroy made Chase's guilt over his involvement in Rebecca's disappearance so heart wrenching even as he has a tendency to be self destructive. I will miss Conroy immensely. In his memory, I share this one which I'm sure I've posted before...
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
@Paul Raven I think you are right how "Loving," particularly in the 1990s, faced a similar predicament to "Search for Tomorrow" in the 1980s, especially during the NBC years. I think the complicating factor for "Loving" was that the foundations were pretty much obliterated very early on. Nothing came much of the initial three main stories: (1) Roger and Merrill's affair, (2) Mike's struggles with PTSD, and (3) Lily and Jack's love. A majority of those characters (Roger, Merrill, Lily) were written out before the show's first anniverary. Mike's wife was also dumped within a year. I still maintain Nixon should have written the first year herself to establish tone, characters, and overall vision. Once Marland leaves, the show is fairly aimless. Some of the immediate fallout is fine, but once the show gets further into 1986 things tend to fall apart at a bit of a faster pace. In the 1990s, Jackie Babbin works to establish an identity for the show. I think what she leaves for Fran Sears in the summer of 1991 is decent and Sears expands on the class conflict by emphasizing the impact of having a college in the town has on its citizens. Sears plans really looked to bring in the social issues that had been important to the show's core. Then, Haidee Granger comes in and things start to fall again in terms of general direction.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
I've made this argument in a slightly different form over the years. The Aldens needed an antagonist that was on their level in terms of money and power. Dane Hammond got there and should have stayed there. The idea of the nouveau riche Dane ending up going toe to toe on a regular basis with Cabot Alden would have kept the "Dynasty" angle the show wanted so badly by the late 1980s more viable. To me, Dane was a viable longterm character as Jack's natural father, Ann's ex-husband, Shana's former partner in crime, Cabot's former employee turned rival, and a series of other relationships (Ava, Gwyn, Lorna, etc.) Similarly, I think there was a realization early on that Roger need a rival in one form or another. Johnny Forbes was originally conceived as Joe Kennedy type, but with much more pronounced ties to the mob. He was going to be behind the prostitution ring and would end up dead by his own hand in the pilot film. Johnny could have stayed as the man behind the man. Johnny as sort of the new moneyed heavy might have worked. There is an attempt to make Garth Slater that character, but that couldn't have been longterm for obvious reasons. Finally, the show introduced Warren Hodges, the district attorney, as that character before just abandoning Roger all together. I think Roger should have returned, but there was a difference between him and Clay. Clay was more arrogant than Roger, more dapper, and more polished. Roger wasn't raised in the circles that Clay was from what I have gathered. There is also a confidence that Clay only pretended to have, but it was rarely more than a facade. A lot of the mid to late 1980s attempts were such vile characters they could only last a single story cycle. Nick Diantos owned the casino and was pumping Trisha with drugs. Hunter Belden was a wealthy playboy convincing Dolly he had sold her daughter into child pornography. Janie's death was a waste. If I had been in charge, I would have had Janie marry Curtis when he was locked in Dunellyn and taken control of his interest in things and made all the Aldens squirm. Buck's daughter married to Curtis while Curtis was building something with Stacey just seemed to work well with Janie trying to ignore that she had feelings for Frankie. Janie isn't in town when the prediction is initially made in April. I think the original plan was to kill off Jeremy. During the second round, when Ava brings back the same psychic Gwyn used to help find Trisha, it was revealed that the person who would die had a name start with the letter J. It probably was still going to be GIlbert, masquerading as Jeremy, but the initial masquerade story is so dumb. Gwyn must hold the record for sleeping with three different men who were not who she thought they were because they were either a twin (Jonathan / Gilbert) or an imposter (Alex). Addie Walsh and Laurie McCarthy's run is stronger than Walsh's 1992 run, but they squandered so much potential and wrapped up too much too quickly. Ava taking control of AE should have played out for at least a year if not more. Regarding Isabelle and Ally, I think the show was briefly attempting to paint the idea that Isabelle saw Ally as a Gwyn type someone who was lower class but valued family and would chose the Aldens over their own. Stacey was originally a tomboy type. She was a swimmer for AU and was working with Billy Bristow as her coach. In the original bible, there was a suggestion that Stacey and Curtis would end up together for a stretch and that Stacey might even be a bit more manipulative than she ever appeared onscreen. In what I've seen more recently of 1985, Marland did a lot of work on the character of Stacey to give her those layers and dimensions that you are speaking about. Stacey carrying on an affair with Jack while he was married to Ava was a very interesting story choice for the show's heroine especially given her strict Catholic upbringing. There were some very well done scenes of Stacey agonizing over her and Jack's infidelity and how her parents would react to this. When Ava had Stacey served with a subpoena as a correspondent in Jack and Ava's divorce case, Stacey's parents were present. This all seemed to be taken from the original plot projection for Merrill Vochek with the exception that Merrill didn't seem to have that many qualms about sleeping with a married man. The story for Jack and Stacey, after Jack secured the divorce from Ava, should have been about Jack constantly putting Stacey in situations that made her question the values her family had instilled in her since birth. To me, the custody of baby Johnny Forbes should have prevented Jack and Stacey from marrying. Jack should have been determined to keep Johnny at any cost and when Stacey refused to marry Jack so that he could take Johnny away from Tug and Sheri, Jack might have even considered returning to Ava. When Jack and Lily had their affair, Stacey's decision to divorce Jack should have riled up the Donovans as even Mike and Noreen didn't divorce in the end, if I recall correctly. However, if this was the route the show was going to maintain, you needed to have the Donovan family around in some form to represent the value system that Stacey was working to maintain. Rose and Patrick should have been kept around in a recurring capacity. Mike and Doug could have dipped in and out of the story when their position seemed to fit. Doug and Lily Slater may have been an interesting angle to go circa 1988. In the 1990s though, Stacey was presented as a soccer mom/Everywoman type and I think that worked. The problem was the powers that be went for intense melodrama with the gaslighting plot rather than exploring the potentially more meaningful tale of a woman who married her first love in the previous decade, now single with two kids in the era of AIDS and an evolving stance on sexuality. Stacey should have gone on speed dating or video dating. She should have fallen for a man who only wanted to have sex with her. She should have struggled balancing work, family, social life, and personal life. Then, cowboy Buck could have ended up drunk on her front porch. Dr. Ron Turner, Jr. (Jeffrey D. Sams) was Cooper Alden's therapist during the aborted childhood sexual abuse storyline. Addie Walsh had crafted Cooper's sexual abuse story when Fran Sears was executive producer as it seemed to be intentionally mirroring the original Lily Slater story, but with a male in the role of Lily. I would even speculate that they may have considered a multiple personality storyline for Cooper as I seem to recall some scenes in May 1992 where Cooper seemed very different in one set of scenes than another. Like Ally saying he was such a different person when they were alone, but it may have just meant to mean that Cooper was more honest. It would seem that when Haidee Granger arrived, she killed the story. Given that Paul Anthony Stewart stated to the press that Walsh had left mid-1992 over a story dispute, I think Granger nixed the sexual abuse story and softened it by making it that Cooper "seduced" his nanny, Selina. When Walsh returns in 1994, she fairly quickly readdresses the story between Cooper and Steffi and Cooper goes back to calling it abuse. The sequence around New Years Eve 1992/1993 was very strange with Ron basically performing a singing and dancing number because Sams was appearing in a play. They introduced Ron's doctor mother and a girlfriend, but I don't know if that was going to be explored any further. Given that Walsh would have been out the door, it may have intentionally been a filler storyline. Outside of that storyline, I am not sure what, if any, longterm plans they had. Turner pushed Kate Slavinski to run for city council and I believe was last seen in April 1993 at Trisha's funeral.
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Primetime Soaps
After "Flamingo Road," I've been trying to make my way through "Emerald Point, N.A.S." I want to like it more than I actually like it. Some of the setup is clearly a retread of "Dynasty." Susan Dey's Celia is a a combination of Steven and Fallon Carrington. Of the three Mallory daughters, Celia is the most intriguing, but Susan Dey isn't bringing the edge to the character that is written and it falls flat. In her defense, some of the sequences are beyond bizarre, a drunken Celia playing hide and seek between cars with Richard Dean Anderson's very unamused Simon Adams is a sight to see. Though, I do find Anderson and Dey have passable enough chemistry that makes them rootable, and Celia's main central conflict, that the Navy has been a dominating force that has controlled every aspect of her life, gives us the foundation of an intriguing triangle between Celia and Simon (a test pilot instructor) and her husband, Jack Warren (a JAG attorney). In the pilot, Celia is frustrated as she is unexpectedly pregnant and refuses to bare another generation of Mallory naval officers. She threatens to abort the baby if Jack doesn't leave the Navy. Jack initially considers work from Harlan Adams, Simon's industrialist father who's company has many government contracts and has a significant airplane manufacturing division, however, a court case leaves him staying in the Navy. Celia is an alcoholic. She ends up having a miscarriage leaving Jack with lingering doubts what role Celia's drinking played in the loss of their child. Celia is done. She and Jack's marriage deteriorates further and further and Celia decides to break free and start with Simon. Just as she is doing so, Jack decides he will leave the Navy, which may, or may not, have Celia back in his arms. The central older set is strong, at first. Maud Adams' character Maggie Farrell is a civilian with an MIA POW husband who she is convinced is still out there. This prevents her from getting to romantically inclined with the widowed Thomas Mallory. Dennis Weaver doesn't bring the sense of domineering stoicism that John Forsythe seems to better embody in Blake Carrington, but both men are built from the same mold. I'm trying to enjoy Deanna played by Jill St. John (who looks like Brenda Vaccaro's more glamorous sister to me. Julia Blake would definitely be calling up Deanna if they were related). Deanna initially seems to have a bit of thing for Blake and seems to be the Alexis of the group accept she pops up in episode four rather than waiting a full season. Deanna as a former Navy wife doesn't really work for me, but I am assuming they wanted her to have a familiarity with the whole system. I think I would have gone another route and had Deanna's son be a Naval officer who had been killed in the line of duty. Possibly in a drill like the one that Simon Adams criticized in the pilot (an element of Simon's character that I found intriguing but seems to have been squashed). Deanna trying to worm her way into the Adams family with Patrick O'Neil as Harlan was fun. I'm only an episode into Robert Vaughn and Harlan already feels less larger than life and more like a poor man's version of Cecil Colby. The Russian plotline is very cringey, but I am sure fit the culture of the time. Michael Carven slips in and out of the accent in a scene with Simon. I am never sure what the point of the Simon - Alexi rivalry is. Is Simon suppose to also care for Leslie Mallory? Is this just an embodiment of the American-Russian conflict? Or is Simon just jealous that Leslie is monopolizing Alexi's time and wants his own Russian invasion? Who knows at this point, and most of the time I don't really care. I can't even remember what is the purpose of Thomas Mallory entertaining Robert Loggia's character. The latest twist involving Deanna in the Russian plot is preposterous, which is a shame because Deanna was making interesting gains in the Adams household when she bought Hilary's blackmail tape. Sela Ward's Hilary is fun. The decision to have most of her scenes with Richard Dean Anderson's Simon, her half-brother, in her bedroom is an odd choice that definitely places an odd level of sexuality between the siblings. Besides the possible incest, Hilary is the most engaging of the younger female characters even though she remains one of the flattest in the early episodes. The way she manipulates her bestie Kay Mallory is the most interesting Kay has been in those early episodes. Hilary going after Glenn after he marries Kay while in the Caribbean bar dancing with other men to "Sweet Dreams" is a fun sequence. Almost as fun as Celia flirting with John Bennett Perry (does Dinah Caswell know what Michael is up to?) to The Police's "Every Breath You Take." I have little nice to say about Kay or Leslie. Leslie as the female naval member is intriguing but she is too deep into the Russian story. Kay the school teacher is too saccharine for my taste. The hinted at dynamic between the sisters is intriguing but they can't seem to stick the landing on what that dynamic is actually going to be. I almost wish this got a second season because I see the foundation of a really interesting show.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
The way that "Loving" approached the transition from the college stories to life beyond Alden University was messy. They needed to either keep the fast paced storytelling in the college or switch to the slower paced stories outside of college. Walsh wrote the start of Ally's pregnancy which set in motion the stories that would drive the story away from the university. I don't think that was a bad thing (Ally's pregnancy). I like that Taggert and Guza had Ally try to balance and it all not want to drop out of school. This was interesting. Ally and Cooper marrying based on Isabelle's outdated values and Cooper's manipulative tendencies also wasn't a terrible idea. It was the pacing. Ally and Cooper have the baby and marry in May/June and by August they are separating and in a custody battle. That story should have dragged on for at least a year before Ally and Casey got back together. I think the general problem was that Nixon never wanted Alden University to be a central focus. Her "Loving" was a soap set in a college town, not about a college town. There was a significant difference. Nixon is the one who moves the stories away from the campus. Casey drops out to pursue photography and Steffi to pursue modelling. Cooper is in classes (offscreen) but considers quitting. Only Ally, who intends on being a stay at home mom, is still pursuing her degree. Nixon also moves Jeremy away from Alden U and has him working at the ad agency. I think with Janie she was never in Corinth that long for anything to matter. Her initial story arc is in Boston and then she arrives in Corinth in late June/early July and is gone by the middle of August. I liked the idea of Janie working at the hospital with Angie, and the suggestion that Janie would have lived at the boarding house. This might not be popular, but I don't think Angie should have come over to "Loving." Debbi Morgan was, and still is a strong talent, but I would have introduced her as someone new. "Loving" had a very poor history of introducing characters of color, but it may have been good for the show to expand on what they had. Minnie Madden was fairly popular in her friendship with Kate. I think I would have used Minnie to introduce Morgan's new character, possibly Madden's niece or prodigal daughter returned after many years away. Similarly, I think that the show could have done something with the Hindman family who had been an on-again/off-again recurring fixture for a bit. Ewing could have been Art Hindman's younger brother. I would have intergrated the characters into the main canvas by having Morgan's new character being a law partner for Shana and Ewing being an ambitious, rising politician who would clash with the way Alden University would monopolize Corinth's resources while underpaying in taxes. This would keep him as a thorn in the side of the Aldens. Maybe, he was even a former student of Roger Forbes'. Regarding the others, Roger should have returned at some point. I think Marland would have brought him back, but I don't think that was going to happen after Marland left the building. @j swift Addressed some of the issues with having a Clay, a Curtis, and a Cooper on the campus at the same time. I think, in some ways, Roger could have been a sorta Alex type, the son that Aldens would have wanted, but even that might have been a bit of a stretch. I think a return of Roger would have been good if they were going to play a Roger / Dane rivalry with Roger winning back Jack, but losing Ann to Dane or vice versa. I do see the point about the set up of the Roger / Ann and the Clay / Gwyn marriages being the same: wealthy Americans living overseas while the husband carries on with other women. I think it may have made it a bit more interesting if Clay, like original flavor Ann, had no interest in business. He was more a free thinker and pushed Gwyn into an open marriage and had encouraged Curtis to not be restrained by the conservative sexual mores of a town like Corinth. Maybe, I would have had Clay return and focus on maintaining Alden University rather than going into business. The Donovans should have been weaved in and out of the story as needed including Mike and Noreen. I think Doug as a reporter gave him the most agency on the canvas, but I think tying him back into the university in the early 1990s would have been interesting when the show was reestablishing AU. As I've stated before, I would have had Doug come to terms with his sexuality and come out as a gay or bisexual man. Curtis, despite being on for so many years, was mismanaged for most chunks of time post- Linden Ashby. Jackie Courtney as Ann is intriguing. I love the initial concept of Ann with Shannon Eubanks, but I've started to appreciate Callan White's work more that I've seen it. When the writers knew what they wanted Ann to be, Callan was a strong presence. Unfortunately, that was a rarity after Doug Marland walked out. I cannot remember if I've said this before, but I would have brought on Morgan Fairchild as Ann Alden during the 1995 revamp as Dennis Parlato wasn't renewing his contract. I'd also probably have had Roscoe Born play Dane Hammond. Dane was a character who should have had longer runs. I liked Paul Slavinski, Carly Rescott, and Flynn. Matt Ford should have stayed Giff Bowman didn't need to be a psycho Lily Slater should have had at least one run in the 1990s. Jack's mother's side, the Hendersons, could have been explored a bit further. A son of Kate's could have showed up at some point. Catherine Hickland should have been Lorna.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
The arrival of Angie and Charles and the return of Alex really impacted the nature of storytelling on "Loving." I do like Agnes Nixon's 1993-1994 run, but it is very heavy on police and hospital stories when they hadn't been before. It shifted the tone. Angie at 35 Maple Street would have kept her in the thick of the college story. She was already involved in Steffi's bulimia storyline. Ron Nummi would have been a great Curtis. Stan Albers was a workable actor, but I never get any sense of what direction they want to go with Curtis. It's almost as if they looked at Marcantel's snarky Curtis and Moses' nice guy Curtis and tried to settle on a middle ground. It just didn't work. In the original story bible for "Loving," Lorna was paired with Jeff Turner, Jack's best friend and the son of Dr. Ron Turner, who had been a psychologist who was involved in treating both Lily's DID and Mike's PTSD. Jeff and Lorna would have married and divorced without much fanfare. It was going to be an interracial relationship were the race differences were downplayed. Lorna would eventually cause problems for Doug, but I don't think it was made clear if that would be before, during, or after her marriage. ABC most likely got skittish. Jeff was retooled and the character became Tony Perilli. Angie was another example of collapse of the social class structure of the prior years. For the second act of the college revamp, Addie Walsh introduced four new contract characters: Staige Prince, Kent Winslow, Cooper Alden, and Casey Bowman. To make space, characters had to go. Walsh made the decision to eliminate the Carly / Paul story which eliminated a large part of the show's working class contigent between Carly, Paul, and Flynn being shuffled off the canvas. Angie ended up in pseudo-working class group with Leo (who owned a department store), Shana (a lawyer), Stacey (a novelist and college professor), Dinahlee (a small business owner), Trucker (another small business own), Tess (once married to a millionaire), and Buck. I don't get a sense they had story for Angie. The pairing with Trucker was interesting, but I don't know what the thoughts would have been long term.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
Debbi Morgan arrived in Corinth as Angie in August, 1993 when Robert Guza and Millee Taggert were still writing the show. I never go the sense that they knew what to do with Angie. I believe the show was intending to bring back some past characters in celebration of the show's tenth anniversary (hence Curtis and Alex's returns), but I wonder what the circumstances were that shifted Angie to "Loving." Angie does end up spending most of her scenes with Trucker as the story with Tess, Curtis, Buck, and Kuwait wasn't really well received. Trucker and Tess had initially appeared as end game, but, by the time Angie arrived, it was clear that Tess was going to be between Clay and Curtis. Part of the issue was that there was no real build to Angie. Part of the issue was Angie was connected with people who were the most disconnected from the canvas. The show had never had much of a medical presence so her work at the hospital wasn't going to initial build much story. Angie was involved in Shana's pregnancy and that kinda of created an Angie-Shana friendship, but Shana was always two steps away from being let go. Similarly, Jeremy, while having more of a setpiece to work with in terms of the college, felt very forced into the series. Personally, I would have, at the very least, given Angie an office at 35 Maple Street which would have kept her in the thick of things with the college kids. Also, it would have given her access to Kate Rescott, which I think might have been a nice friendship. Trucker asks Angie out on a date in like September or October 1993. I cannot remember if its under Nixon or Guza/Taggert. Whenever it is, Angie turns him down and the story is dropped. In late October, Charles Harrison is introduced as Alex's FBI buddy during the someone is targetting the Aldens plot, but the initial Charles/Angie stuff is initially about Charles' past with the dead fiancee and the Charles/Frankie relationship which was clearly recycled Trucker/Frankie kind of material. Angie is weaved into the social stories... she ends up suspecting Steffi's eating disorder in January and she has some play in the Patti may have developmental issues. I don't think it's really til February/March 1994 that they start building the HIV storyline for Angie. The initial strand is Angie and Charles talking about escalating their relationship and the need for protection living in the era of AIDS. In April, Angie ends up being stabbed by a syringe that had been used on a heavy intravenous drug user and the patient refuses to submit to an HIV test. This plays out briefly because then things shift into the aplastic anemia stuff requiring the bone marrow transplant that begins with Angie being kidnapped by Janie's boyfriend in Boston. The stuff with the plane crash I believe was very early in Nixon's run before she dropped Gwyn / Buck. I think when it comes to writers, I'm not sure there is one that ever made it all come together to a point that gave the show a distinctive original tone that the show was known for. Almost every writer made a significant contribution, but they just never completely pulled it together long enough (mostly because they were never given time) to do so. The writers who were given the most time at the show were Millee Taggert (with Tom King from September 1988-May 1991, solo from May to August 1991, and with Robert Guza from January to September 1993) and Addie Walsh (from January 1992 to Januarry 1993 and August 1994 until early spring 1995). Taggert and King had been working on sitcoms and immediately embedded a sense of humor into the show, which became a trademark of the series. They were also the ones who introduced Trucker McKenzie and the real Clay Alden while starting the Who's the Daddy? story with Stacey and cousins Jack Forbes and Rick Alden. Some of the issues relate to the executive producer situation. Joe Stuart's toxic misogyny had its impact on the set leading to Joe Hardy arriving and wanting to make the show more in line with the big adventure stories of "General Hospital." The spy stuff with Alex and Clay and Jelka is bad. I still confuse the unmemorable Jolie and Juliette. The biggest flaw though in this era is the failure to develop a strong youth storyline. In theory, with Trucker and Trisha as the show's big couple, centering around their siblings should have been a nice way to keep Trucker and Trisha in the thick of things without needing to keep them front and center. The problem was that Curtis was the older brother and to make Rocky and Curtis the youth story, you had to ignore all the history that came before it with Curtis. Also, because Curtis had gone through so many iterations prior to Stan Albers arrival, there is no sense of character. Is he a good guy or a bad guy? This inability to pin down a sense of who Curtis was at his core haunts the show until its end. The problem I have is it is all so generic and flavorless in big story for so much of the initial stretch (1988-1990) until Jacqueline Babbin comes in. Babbin wanted the show to be more of a mini "All My Children" and was big on reestablishing Corinth as a town of haves and have nots. Under Babbin, there was a more cohesive sense of community with the recentering of the havenots around Kate's boarding house with Rocky, Rio, Abril, and Monty. Under Babbin, I believe we see the return of Patrick and Rose Donovan after a several year hiatus and Ilene Kristen's Norma Gilpin is brought into the fold. The story regarding Abril's baby (she was pregnant by Clay, giving her baby to Trucker and Trisha, and befriending Carly who was involved with Clay) is pretty solid and had the bones to go on for a long time. Pairing that with the Carly, Paul, and Ava triangle while also reuniting Gwyn and Dane Hammond had the potential for a rich place. Fran Sears replaces Jackie Babbin after a year as Babbin only agreed to give Nixon and ABC a specific amount of time before returning to writing her murder mystery novels. In the final months of Taggert, she introduced several significant characters (Ally Rescott, Matt Ford, and Dinahlee Mayberry). Ally and Matt's romance was very well received. Eric Woodall was phenomenal. Laura Sisk Wright was green but showed the potential that made Ally a long running character. Jessica Collins Dinah was just electric. The fatal flaw during Mary Ryan Munisteri's run is her approach to Trucker and Trisha, which was to naturally bring to the service the differences in their upbringings. As a natural extension of the have and have not angle, this makes sense, but Trisha comes off as boorish and Trucker comes off as stubborn and gullible. Making these characters messy gave them long term internal issues to deal with, but this was a turn off to the audience. I enjoy them, but I have never been a huge Trisha/Trucker fan. Fran Sears had a very clear vision to continue the haves / have nots angle but to bring Alden University back into focus. Sears introduced Pins, the bowling alley which was such a uniquely "Loving" set as well as the Tides, which was initially this beautifully rustic hunting lodge with a hint of gothic mystery. Giff's studio at the university is very nicely lit with a large sky light. Ava is working at Checkers, a theme restaurant in line with the type of establishments popping up in the 1990s. Sears sense of color was very vibrant, but also soft and romantic. Ryan Munisteri is replaced by Addie Walsh who is most remembered as the one who spearheaded the college revamp because under her pen we saw the introduction of Cooper Alden, Kent Winslow, Staige Prince, Casey Bowman, and Hannah Mayberry. Casey was a character that was proposed by Mary Ryan Munisteri as she had introduced Giff. Ryan Munisteri had utilized an art space in 1990 on "Tribes" and had a triangle between two friends in a band just as Munisteri seemed to be doing with Revel, Ally, and Matt except Walsh held back on introducing Revel and instead introduced a minor character named James. It would seem that Walsh may have cherry picked from Munisteri's long story while developing the college set. Hannah may have been a Munisteri suggestion as her arrival precedes the rest by two months in early February 1992. Cooper, by all accounts, is all Walsh. His introduction story with the dead parents is something that Walsh had done the previous year when she was head writing the French soap opera "Riviera." The wealthy de Courcey family were housing two orphaned teenaged cousis of the main set. Kent and Staige were very thinly written as a part of the Greek system set that was quickly abandoned. Besides the intro of the young people, Walsh's run is pretty heavy on the Clay / Dinahlee pairing which didn't work. The disillusioned romantic version of Clay that returned from Hollywood paired with a very humbled Dinahlee did no favors to either character. If the origins hadn't been during Noelle Beck's second maternity leave, it may have worked out better, but the focus on Clay's new parentage was a shift that destabilized most of the canvas. It tied into the fairly unmemorable Tides ghost story. Giff going off the deep end was also dumb. Gwyn joined Shana in the land of Alden women who had no sense of story or purpose. Jack's death and the Clay and Stacey story didn't suit the original actors involved. Dennis Parlato gave Clay more of a convincing menace than Larkin Malloy did. Walsh plays the class conflict in much broader terms. Initially, its the Greek system with the wealthy Kent and Staige with poor Ally Rescott representing the new class system of Corinth. Walsh turns Munisteri's regal, patrician Isabelle Alden played by Celeste Holm into a poor man's Phoebe Wallingford making Patricia Barry's Isabelle into a classist buffoon who is determined to keep them "damn Mayberry girls" away from her Alden boys. Walsh has Isabelle driven by a need to maintain power by securing her son Clay's role in the Alden family despite being the product of an affair she had with stablehand Tim Sullivan. It takes a richly complex part of the canvas and waters it down to the point where you would prefer it just not be a thing. To be fair to Walsh, her run was also known for being paired with Haidee Granger, who from most accounts, was not the show's strongest executive producer. On the heels of Sears, Granger's "Loving" seemed very disjointed. Granger had previously worked on British television and I think there may have been an attempt to take a very different approach by deemphasizing long story. Characters materialize and become contract without having much sense of development (Armand Rosario and Leo Burnell). Her run is remembered positively for the crossover with "All My Children" where Carter Jones went after Dinahlee. On the heels of Giff kidnapping Trisha and taking her to the belfry, it was too much. Giff died around September 30 and the Carter Jones saga was most of October leading into sweeps. The final issue within the Walsh / Granger era is the introduction of Jean Le Clerc's Jeremy Hunter from Pine Valley. Jeremy had appeared the previous year in an arc with his wife Ceara (played by Genie Francis) as she had fled Pine Valley to try and work through her feelings after uncovering that she had sexually abused as a child. The initial arc (under Munisteri and Sears) was brilliant as it enhanced the Matt / Ally story and also gave Trisha a shoulder to cry on during the Dinahlee/Trucker affair. The issue was that Jeremy's role in 1991 was very minimal. In 1992, Jeremy is brought on for Stacey after the decision was made to dump Trucker/Stacey. It would have made more story sense to pursue Jeremy and Trisha, but with Noelle Beck on the edge of leaving, maybe they figured it would be better to go another direction. Anyway, Walsh's run ends pretty much in autopilot mode but sets up a decent situation with Ally's pregnancy to propel the younger set forward. Louie Slavinski's prostate cancer diagnosis was also set in motion in Walsh's final days. Tonally, Walsh downplays the trademark comedy in order to enhance the emotional resonance of the work. Munisteri and Taggert were both able to build strong emotional sequences, but they had script writers who made those scenes memorable. Walsh's work falls flat with the script writing team in place. In terms of plotting, Walsh is strong. Something is always happening it just might not last a long time. When Taggert and Guza arrive, there is an immediate turn around. They focus the show around three major story threads: (1) Shana deciding she wants a baby and wants Ava's boyfriend Leo to be the father, (2) a haunted Curtis returning to Corinth and his pairing with his father's lover Dinahlee, and (3) Casey and Ally's romance being threatened by Cooper's role as the father of Ally's baby. From there, other stories spin off. The introduction of Amelia Heinle as Stephanie Brewster in January 1993 marks the final member of the quad that "Loving" was remembered for. Guza and Taggert's Steffi is an emotionally manipulative party girl who uses that exterior to hide the deep loneliness she feels growing up with a mother who is out of touch with reality. The Brewsters of Corinth, like the Brewsters of Point Claire, are old money who are now broke but desperate to maintain the facade that they are still able to maintain a lifestyle that keeps them in the upper echelons of Corinth society. Steffi is paid by Isabelle to keep Casey occupied so that Cooper and Ally can marry with the Alden heir being legitimate. The concept of Steffi is not new to "Loving." This was the original concept for Staige Prince, but there was no development into her character and Eden Atwood was very broad in her performance. There was also a brief character Mia who seemed set to fill a similar role, but Mia was ditched when Walsh exited. While Steffi certainly reinstills a sense of social class in Corinth, Taggert and Guza's have nots are not as strong as as Taggert's last run. Tess is living at the boarding house. Buck comes on as an opportunist like Tess. Similarly, Dinahlee lives above her bowling alley, but she is still a small business owner. Taggert and Guza keep Isabelle on the fringes of the story which is probably best given what Isabelle had become. The only positive working class character I can recall being added was the waitress that helps Trisha after her accident. Robert Huston and his girlfriend Dolly are grifters. Tess is suppose to be a grifter with a heart of gold. Angie and Frankie are presented as dealing with more working class issues (gangs in California), but it isn't really resonating because of Angie's position as a doctor. The final days of Trisha in Corinth are marked by the arrival of Trucker's unknown half-brother Buck Huston, who is involved in a scheme with Tess Wilder to bilk Trucker out of Trisha's inheritance. Tess and Buck turn out to involved in Curtis' chilling experience in Kuwait. The Kuwait story is a real mark on a very positive era. Patrick Johnson is convincing as a soldier, but not as an Alden. Michael Lord was more convincing as Alden, but less as a soldier. Lord had a tendency to overplay Curtis, while Johnson underplayed him. Tess seems to be a bit of Taggert's early intentions for Dinahlee as the scheming nanny and Guza's penchant for manipulative blond conwomen like Summer Holloway. If a lesser actress had been in the role, Tess would have departed at the time of Nixon's arrival. There is a strong sense of sexuality to Guza and Taggert's loving. Shana's insemination plot is suppose to be a no-strings attached sexual encounter that is clearly complicated by the emotional intimacy that is shared by two people who are having a child together. Steffi is a sex positive character who has no problem coaxing Cooper into the Arabian Nights window display at Burnell's and proceeds to publicly undress him as foreplay in front of a group of shoppers and Ava. Gwyn's bubble bath with Buck seems to push the boundaries as does a sequence where Dinalee and Curtis are getting handsy under the table at L'Auberge waiting for the Aldens to join them. Also, proving that sex has no age, Kate's attempts to reassure a post-operative Louis that she still wants to be intimate with him are very touching and end with Kate and Louis in their bedroom. The return of a passionate Ava leaves her dangling between Leo and Jeremy for much of the year before suggesting that Alex Masters will also be thrown into the mix. Angie and Frankie Hubbard's introduction to Corinth gives "Loving" its first major African American characters. Minor characters like Egypt and Kate's pal Minnie Madden, police chief Art Hindman, and Hindman's kids Dave and Tally all remained fairly secondary. Frankie's brashness is refreshing and the interaction between Frankie and Steffi promised to revisit the idea of playgirl socialite Lorna Forbes dating African American Ron Turner's son. The downside of this time is Curtis Alden. Trying to refocus the canvas on Curtis with Trisha departing the canvas was a brilliant idea. Casting was sloppy as already discussed. I like Michael Lord. If he reigned the character in a bit, I think I would have liked where his Curtis was going though I have to wonder if his over the top antics as Curtis didn't inspire Nixon to push Curtis over the edge and destabilize his mental health. Besides casting, the story with Tess and Buck was time consuming. By the time Trucker and Buck's father is introduced, even Guza and Taggert realize this was too much and wrap the story up and start sending everyone in different directions. Guza and Taggert may be the ones to reach the closest to the true potential of "Loving." Nixon's return in September 1993 promised to continue the greatness of the previous year, but Nixon really shifted things in her own direction. Her period, while definitely enjoyable, is probably one of the roughest transitions only to be surpassed by going from Munisteri to Walsh while Walsh is trying to establish the college set. Nixon blows up the Jeremy / Ava / Leo / Shana story which had constantly found ways to keep everyone in the same orbit in favor of downplaying the business angle (Leo defaulted on his loan that Shana gave him in exchange for him fathering her child leaving Shana as owner of Burnell's) and focused on Patti's developmental issues while never fully committing to whether or not she had any issues. The dead Kuwait story was revived with a very alive Dante Partou meaning that the only Middle Eastern character on the show was a Stefano Dimera-esque super villain. Nixon rids herself of the college campus in short order. By November, Casey runs out of money so he drops out of school and Steffi gets a modelling offer so she leaves college. By January, Tess has roped Jeremy into a partnership at the ad agency. 35 Maple Street disappears. In its place, Nixon establishes the ad agency, which became a critical piece of the final years of "Loving" and the short run of "The City." The ad agency harkened back to one of Nixon's original goals for the series by centering the show on a young female lead in the media (Merrill Vochek). The ad agency ends up being an excellent setpiece and makes the loss of the college palatable. Class distinctions are downplayed, but subtle. Trucker and Dinahlee reuniting at the video rental store definitely reminds the audience that these two may have been in the Alden orbit, but neither truly fit in there. It's hard to imagine Isabelle Alden in the video store to return her copy of "A Summer Place." While Casey is presented as a struggling artist, his artist loft space is huge. A beautiful set but the smaller repurposed apartment that the Bowmans had shared (and I'm pretty sure dated back to the early/mid 1980s) was more reflective of how Casey should have been living given his source of income. The Donovan home remains the epitome of working class comfort with Angie's home matching that energy with a prominent use of African art and other decorations. The bike shop, introduced by Walsh, remains as the central workplace for working class men like brothers Trucker and Buck. Robert Lupone's seedy loan shark is less memorable than his run several years earlier under Munisteri as Michael Rescott's alcoholic musician father. Where Nixon excells is in the story and the couples. The Clay / Steffi pairing should by no means work, but it does. Steffi's daddy issues, Clay's daughter issues, the potential rivalry between younger and older alpha Alden male, and just Dennis Parlato and Amelia Heinle's understanding of their characters make the story engaging. Nancy Addison Altman's addition as Deborah gives Steffi a very tangible reason for the audience to sympathize with her. And brava to Altman for not fearing to play the ugliness of Deborah. Steffi's bulimia is a very compelling arc for the character. Steffi's friendship with Tess enhances both characters. In another case of pairings that shouldn't work, but do, Tess and Cooper help to round out the new quad. Cooper going after the blond former nanny plays on his trauma. Tess, while not completely aware of Cooper's story, senses enough that she knows what they are doing is wrong and knows that it won't last. The decision to reveal that Tess had been anorexic in the past during her modeling days as well as at the start of her marriage to Dante was a nice way to connect Tess and Steffi's stories. A bit lost in the shuffle though is Casey and Ally, who after Cooper is revealed to be a louse are going to finally get their happily ever after. The problem is happy endings are not the fodder of great soap opera so they flounder a bit. Ally's choice to be a stay at home mom is compelling, but not a rich source of drama. Casey's desire to provide his family with a home while affluent Cooper is able to provide Tyler with everything is a great source of strain on Casey and Ally's marriage. Buck and Stacey are wonderful together. Tying Buck to other parts of the canvas was smart. Utilizing him as Egypt's partner in crime allowed us to see another side of Buck and confirmed that Buck's stories would always be about how his past would come back to haunt him as the man he is now. Stacey is less active in this period, which is disappointing. I did appreciate her being pulled into Curtis' orbit towards the end of Nixon's run and would have loved to see where that would have gone. I would have liked to see Stacey reacting to Janie. Janie was such a brilliant addition to the show. An African American Ava Rescott, the young woman came on the scene with such a presence and such a personality. She was one of Angie's kidnappers who Angie learned was actually in an abusive relationship with the man holding Angie hostage. The very hurt Janie had a tendency to lash out at others to prevent them from ever causing her any pain again. Janie was a character who was just allowed to travel the canvas. Frankie liked her, Angie wanted to help her, Cooper wanted to know what she knew about Clay's secret, Gwyn mothered her, and she was Buck's daughter. The character had the ability to enter any scene and add some energy that wasn't there. The main crux of the Nixon run though was the Curtis / Trucker / Dinahlee story. This story was a twist on the two friends loving them the same woman plot by throwing in Curtis' PTSD as well as the lingering question of Trisha's fate. The highlight of this to me is Curtis pretending Trisha is still alive to keep Trucker and Dinahlee apart because, in the end, Curtis was right even if his intentions were malicious. Dinahlee had well been established as a lead heroine at this point so this was probably her strongest period in that position stuck between loving Trucker and wanting to save Curtis from himself. Nixon's departure after almost a year in August 1994 signaled a significant shift in the canvas. The lightheartedness of the show was definitely replaced with a stronger sense of drama with a very somber tone. Laurie McCarthy and Addie Walsh's run was much more effective than Walsh's first, but Walsh and McCarthy had been working with Nixon for a better part of a year. Though they immediately dropped potentially interesting elements of the canvas (Janie is quickly killed in a plane crash and Ava gaining control of AE is quickly squashed) while enhancing other neglected parts of the canvas. Casey's mental health crisis leading to drug overuse and addiction is compelling material. Steffi and Cooper's tragic romance culminating in Clay's deception by having Steffi believing that her mother and boyfriend are having an affair is heart breaking material leading to a Steffi's flashbacks of her mother accusing her father of having incestuous feelings for her. Casey and Steffi reconnecting during this period is a powerful use of their history and gives the show a chance to play a different beat. Walsh and McCarthy revive the gothic tone with the introduction of Gilbert. Masquerading as Jeremy is not as compelling as it is when Gilbert kidnaps Ava and Sandy bringing them to the church. The church set is evocative of the mood the show is looking to capture. Marian Seldes as Gilbert's kidnapper/"mother" brings the right mix of menace and concern to the part. The resolution of that story, Alex shooting an unarmed Gilbert, had the potential to set in motion some dramatic material. Trucker and Dinahlee and Buck and Stacey both fall into the story abyss during this period. Dinahlee is recast with Elizabeth Mitchell when Jessica Collins' contract is up. Mitchell is given a heavy story to play off the bat; Dinahlee loses her baby and is badly hurt requiring her to receive physical therapy. Buck and Stacey just struggle to find anything before Buck clearly just becomes Tess' himbo. The stark tone of the show is jarring at first, but is mostly manageable until it isn't. Clay's hit and run is probably the last strong story the show tells before going into yet another major direction. I've already gone on too long and my feelings about Essensten and Harmon Brown are too clouded by the damage they did.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
I've often considered trying to figure out a way to make Kirk Cranston and Peter Flint a single character. For several years, I've reimagined a version of "Santa Barbara" where Peter's entrance to the world of the Capwells was through Channing Capwell, Jr. Upon learning Santana was pregnant, and discovering Sophia's diary which revealed he was Lionel's son, a very shaken Channing flees from Santa Barbara and finds refuge in Miami with a hustler named Antonio Fiore. Channing confides all his secrets to Antonio. It would be very clear that Channing was also paying Antonio for sex. Channing would have shared enough details about the Capwells and the denizens of "Santa Barbara" that when Antonio learned of Channing's passing, he made his way to Santa Barbara with the intention of capitalizing on the Capwell's grief to integrate himself into a family he had come deeply, obsessively connected to. Antonio/Peter's desire to be a Capwell wouldn't necessarily be driven by greed, but having grown up in poverty, the elegant trappings wouldn't hurt. Never having known his father, Antonio/Peter would be drawn to C.C.'s strenght and power. Peter would literally fashion himself after Channing with the intention of filling the dead man's spot in the family. He would dress like him, dye his hair blond to be like him, and even, at times, attempt to recreate Channing's relationships with Santana, as well as Lindsay. With this goal in mind, Peter arrives in Santa Barbara claiming to be a friend of Channing's from his Miami days, a fellow playboy heir who had fallen out with his family prior to their untimely death. By retelling Channing's story, he built immediate bonds with C.C. (out of grief) and Kelly (out of guilt) while something more intensely sexual, but unrequited would happen with Eden. The tension between Eden and Peter would cause Eden to flee to Europe when Peter and Kelly announced their engagement. Peter would be deeply ill from the beginning. A Ted Bundy type who had wormed his way into the Capwell family. The suggestion would be fairly early on that Peter may be Channing's killer as he would be in possession of Channing's diary as he was reliving the young man's life to pattern himself off the dead boy. During at least one of his schemes to maintain power, he would pass himself off as Channing. Peter's attempts to be Channing would amp the power struggle between Mason and Peter and with Peter's occasional flirtation with Santana things would only continue to percolate. Peter would emerge as a surprising ally for Santana, offering to help Santana locate the child she was looking for. In exchange, Peter would ask Santana to keep tabs on Mason for him as Mason had started digging into Peter's past when it emerge that Peter wasn't as he claimed when an old client of Antonio recognized him at a Capwell society function leading to Peter murdering the society matron, who Mason had been pumping for information about Peter. When Peter murdered Geraldine Wentworth, Mason was on his way to meet with her and is on the scene when the body is found. Mason is accused of murder, but quickly released when it becomes clear that it was not possible for Mason to be the murderer. Mason would instantly blame Peter, but Peter's alibi ends up leaving Mason shook; Santana vowages for him. It is at this point that Santana begins to wonder what she has gotten herself into. Kelly is still doing a push and pull with Joe, but is drawn to Peter's strength. Furthermore, I think, at least initially, Joe's pursuit of Kelly would be purely based on his need to clear his name by giving him access to the Capwell resources, but Joe's feelings would never truly go away. The abuse of Kelly's trust would be revealed just as Eden was returning from Europe determined to get Peter for herself. To that extent, Eden would suggest to Kelly that Peter and Santana's friendship ran much deeper having spotted them in a rather tender, intimate moment. Kelly, mad at Joe still and unable to cope with her feelings, would lash out at Peter calling off the wedding. Meanwhile, Eden would suggest to Peter that Kelly was still in love with Joe. Eden would worm her way into Capwell in a department working closely with Peter and the groundwork for a 80s power couple would be in the making until more and more bodies would start piling up as the Carnation Killer struck. Cruz would discover Lindsay and realize that Channing was bisexual. Mason would also discover the connection between Lindsay and Channing and have Lindsay join him in a law practice. Lindsay's arrival on the scene would be a threat to Peter because Channing had shared with Lindsay details of his experience in Miami. How much Lindsay knew would be unknown to Peter but he wouldn't let that stop him from trying to kill Lindsay as well. On the night he intended to kill Lindsay, Peter proposed to Eden that they flee to the islands to get married much to Eden's delight. While they drank the bottle of champagne on the runway, Eden slowly passed out. Peter rushed over and attempted to gain Lindsay's confidence to let him get close enough to kill him. When Eden awoke, she and Peter were in the Dominican Republic where they married before returning to "Santa Barbara." Eden calls home to announce she is returning and receives shocking news: Lindsay Cunningham was attacked and remains in a coma. Peter doesn't like the loose end and plans to resolve the issue. Kelly, in the meantime, has put some things together when she and Santana compare notes. As Kelly prepares to confront her former fiancee, Peter and Eden arrive to announce their marriage leaving Kelly looking like a scorned woman when she accuses Peter of being little more than a con artist and suggesting he may in fact be a murderer. When Peter attempts to locate Lindsay, he learns that Mason has moved him to a private facility and is unable to locate him. Santana and Kelly have found Channing's diary and learn that Channing's last entries, dating from Miami, make it clear that many of things Peter has claimed were not accurate. Now convinced that Peter is Channing's killer, Kelly becomes very frightened for Eden. C.C. agrees to host a party to celebrate the marriage, and Peter decides to confront Kelly once and for all. Realizing how deranged Peter is, a frightened Kelly attempts to flee before Peter attacks her. Santana is there for Kelly when she begins to process all her pain. Ginger Jones has arrived and is blackmailing Peter. Eden reveals to Peter that Lindsay has awaken and his location and Peter rushes off to murder Lindsay once and for all only to learn it is a ruse. Cruz has him arrested. Eden remains in denial and blames Kelly and Mason for their duplicity in railroading her husband. Joe and Kelly, who have reunited, are a constant reminder of Eden's own unhappiness. Eden hires an attorney for Peter, which infuriates the Capwell clan, but things escalate when Peter ends up on bail as Eden has used her father's name to find a sympathetic judge. An unhinged Peter corners Santana and reveals that he believes he is the real Channing Capwell. This all occurs during a dinner party where the Lockridges and the Capwells are gathered at the Capwell mansion to build a truce in order to support their children Laken and Ted. Peter goes on and on about how the Channing they knew and loved was an imposter, unnerving Minx who was among the crowd. C.C. embraces Peter as the prodigal son returning home only to struggle with the gun, the same gun that killed Channing, leaving both C.C. and Peter shot. Peter dies, while C.C.'s fate is left up in the air for a bit before he starts to recover. Eden holds a sparsely attended funeral for her late husband. Ginger Jones arrives and reveals to Eden what she knew about Peter/Antonio. Eden, with Mason's help, is able to track down Peter's mother in New Jersey living in a rundown tenement. From the woman's landlady, Mason and Eden learn of Antonio's unhappy childhood of abuse at the hands of his alcoholic mother. When they finally meet the woman, both Mason and Eden decide not to tell her the truth and instead say they were just looking to find them. Eden is more enraged to learn that her husband was not the monster people made him out to be. Eventually, once the truth about Kelly's child came out, Eden would vow she would get Peter's child away from her sister even if it cost her everything else.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
Joe Perkins was probably not convicted of murder, but rather voluntary manslaughter, which in California could have been a six year sentence. I imagine Joe was a model prisoner so maybe he got out a year early for good behavior. Though if this was the case, that should have been a bigger argument between C.C. and Mason that Mason wasn't able to get the murder charges to stick. Voluntary manslaughter would make a bit more sense though because the gun used to kill Channing was C.C.'s so if the argument was Joe arranged a meeting with Channing, it's unlikely he planned to kill him as he didn't bring the weapon to the scene of the crime. The Perkins parents were miscast. In concept, John and Marissa had interesting layers that had potential to provide rich, dynamic elements to the canvas the Dobsons created. Valorie Armstrong and Robert Alan Browne just were the actors to do that. John Perkins came off as a Marlon Brando-type. One of the few planned stories in the bible for the Perkins family that wasn't used (nor developed beyond an idea) was for John to become involved with graft while working as a union organizer based on a similar situation in "On the Waterfront." During the earthquake, I would have just destroyed the Perkins home and then reveal that the insurance company had quietly dropped the Perkins policy after the attack on the house when Joe returned home. This would give further fuel to the fire between John and Joe. This would have left the Perkins homeless. C.C. would have seen this as an opportunity to drive the Perkins out of Santa Barbara and would have terminated John from his job with Capwell Enterprises. Again, John would blame Joe. The unexpected hero for the family would be Jade, who would move the family into the motel the kids had bought. I would have had the Perkins operate the motel for a bit and struck up a surprising alliance between John Perkins and Paula Kelly's Ginger Jones who would have kept her girls at the motel as well as utilizing the rooms for their work. Joe shouldn't have been killed off. After Peter died, I would have had Kelly learn that she was pregnant, possibly with Peter's child. She would consider her options, but Joe would find out and before things could be talked out the entire Perkins family would be celebrating the impending arrival of their first born while the Capwells had more of a mixed reaction. Kelly would confess the truth to Joe, who would initially be supportive, but later would struggle with the fear that this child he raised would be just like Peter. I would have had Joe talked things over with Brick Wallace given the circumstances of Brick's paternity. Joe needed a more stable profession. Given his handyman work, I would have probably had him working construction, which would have offered him the opportunity to help rebuild the family home. I think Joe's boss would have been some old love interest of Marissa's who had lost out on Marissa to John. This relationship between Joe and his boss would escalate tension between John and Joe especially if John had ended up sleeping with Augusta rather than her brief fling with the mattress salesman and Marissa decided she wanted to give her old flame a chance. Kelly and Joe would have continued to prepare for the baby while also worried that the child may in fact be Peter's and Kelly's fears about how Joe would handle this. Also, Joe being cleared of Channing's murder should have lead to an attempted reconcilliation between Joe and the Capwells and Joe and his father which would only escalate when Julia Wainwright, with some urging from Lionel and Augusta, convinced Joe to file a civil suit against the Capwells for railroading him into a convinction for Channing's death leading to his wrongful imprisonment. During the civil case, Mason continues to suggest that C.C. just payout but pompous C.C. is goaded by Lionel and Augusta into continuing the case because a payout would suggest that C.C. was guilty. Kelly, now very late in her pregnancy, would return home because she feels that Joe has become consumed by his desire to make her family pay, while Joe cannot understand how Kelly can still defend them. At home, Kelly starts having "Rosemary's Baby" esque dreams including one in which her blond haired son is covered in blood and carrying a carnation. Sophia quickly pieces together what is going on and confronts Kelly about the paternity. Kelly opens up to Sophia, which potentially causes tension with Eden. Sophia says the only way to have piece of mind is to have testing done after the baby is born despite the fact that Kelly and Joe previously agreed not to. John, who has had a change of heart when Joe is cleared, pushes Joe to reunite with Kelly and convinces Marissa she needs to let their son be a man and not hold on to him so tightly. Joe would return to Kelly just in time for the baby's birth. It is a joyous moment in which Joe recommits to Kelly and their child because, in Joe's eyes, this is their child no matter what. Kelly starts to reconsider the testing again, but Sophia, fearing for Kelly's sanity in the long run, convinces her to do the testing. Even if only briefly, I would bring in Dr. Olivia Andrade, Rosa and Ruben's mentioned but never seen daughter, to help with the testing. Olivia would confirm Kelly's worst fears: the child is Peter's. Joe would win the civil case and receive a hefty settlement which he would use to build his dream home for Kelly and their child. He would also buy into the construction busines he worked for with Marissa's old flame and expand on the business into property development. His plan is one day to go toe to toe with the C.C. Capwells of the world. Eventually, the child would get sick and the paternity issue is threatened to be unveiled, but Olivia returns and works with Kelly to keep it quiet except that someone (Kirk? Gina? Keith?) overhears some conversations and pieces together what happened. Kelly would end up being blackmailed or someone else in the Capwell clan would be. At some point, there should be a situation in which Kelly shoots the blackmailer in a scene reminiscent of Channing's murder with Joe walking in to find Kelly over the body with Joe working with the Capwells to keep Kelly's secret. My main point is there were places to go with Joe and Kelly and with the Perkins family.
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One Life to Live Tribute Thread
Not sure about the origins, but it looks like the reveal of Mary's parentage is February / March 1982. In January 1982, Melinda Cramer has written a letter detailing the baby switch which Dorian dismisses and Peter Jansen seems concerned about. Marcello gets a hold of the letter and realizes the baby switch must be true. In February, during sweeps, Marcello tells Katrina what has been said in the letter leading to Katrina confronting Karen over what has occured. In early March, Katrina knows Mary is her daughter and has gotten Herb to be her lawyer. In the same week, Katrina receives marriage proposals from Marcello (offering to help increase her chances of custody) and from Brad (to keep her quiet about the switch and to live as Mary's stepmother). By the first week of June 1982, Katrina and Mary are shipped off to Virginia Beach by Brad. Shortly after, Katrina mails a letter to Jenny revealing the whole baby switch. Katrina and Mary return at some point. Sam Hall oversaw most of the story from beginning to end, it would appear, but Gordon Russell would have been out before the story was resolved.