dc11786

Thanks. Also, thanks for the kind comments in the "Types" threads.

This is rather unfortunate. This would mean that a bulk of Alec Baldwin's run as Billy Aldrich would be gone, which seems strange as I could have sworn I have seen stuff pop up in those they started on soap programs where clips were played. I think Baldwin premiered in September 1980. With that said, I am excited to see what's available of 1980. There is a minor story involving a character name Jeff Burgess, a medical student who ends up not continuing his studies partially due to Matt Powers' belittling him. Disappointing. I was looking forward to seeing the messy writers strike, Lemay's run, and the final insanity of the Barbara Morgenroth run with the Aldrich crypt plague and Felicia's use of Jean Marc's "Dorian Gray"-esque elixir to keep her from aging. Part of me wonders if this is what prevented the show, which was rumored to have been bought by someone like Hallmark 20 years ago from airing the program.

Winsor stepping in makes sense as it sounds like Ettlinger's departure wasn't planned. Pickard and Provo may have just been given scripts and projections from 1964 to have an idea of the show's characters, storylines, and tone. It's always possible they were working earlier. I do think during this time period they were also trying to relaunch "Wendy Warren and the News" as a televised daytime series. Regarding Ettlinger and "Flame in the Wind," by the time the show becomes "Time for Us," Ettlinger is being credited as writer. The press for "Flame in the Wind" is mostly Joe Hardy explaining the vision for the show. There are some rather significant story shifts in February, 1965, for "Flame in the Wind" with the quick exit of Craig Reynolds, who was married to Roxanne Reynolds, lusted after author Kate Austen, and I believe was the object of affection for editor Flora Perkins. There was also a scheming reporter Ted Alcourt who also disappeared in February, 1965. I think in March the show introduced Liz Grey as the new threat to Kate Austen's happiness with attorney Tony Grey. Whether that was Phillips or Ettlinger's influence, I wouldn't know.

Hardy and Ettlinger had worked together on "Love of Life." Ettlinger ended up as the writer replacing the show's creator Raphael Hayes, or so I gather. I know that Provo and Pickard's scripts start in April, 1965, from their collection. I wonder if the show just worked off the projections from Ettlinger until Provo and Pickard assumed the roles.

Wow. This unlocked a memory. The Nathan Purdee photos were different than the homoerotic photos of Bruce Michael Hall and his twin brother right? In my head, they were different, but now I am wondering if they aren't one in the same. That was a very odd time for erotic photography and daytime actors. You also have the Marty West oil wrestling videos in there somewhere.

Interesting seeing how Charlie Clemmons and Jerry Ames were written out. This was the last time I think we see Jerry unless something else turns up. I think the Charlie-Joan pairing is interesting and I would have liked to see how that played out. Charlie and Joan seem to be replaced by Wilfred and Nola as the older man-younger woman combination. December definitely feels like the end of something and the start of something else. The January summaries felt very different to me, but that makes sense now seeing the transition period. Hess is out in December according to the documents correct, or rather, Lou Scofield has assumed the headwriter position? Something I want to add is that Roy Windsor had developed a serial around this time called "The Widening Circle," which was about a young woman being released from a mental hospital and her attempts to reclaim her life in the outside world. It sounds very much like the story of Laurie Hollister. I would be curious to see what the original story projections by Hess/Scofield looked like. I've seen some of the Hess' long story before and he's a very mature writer. I'd be curious if he had set up the Laurie/Ken story originally or if that was all Scofield or Windsor. It was also nice to see how the show moved from Valerie/Nick to Amy/Nick. I wouldn't say it was the smoothest, but it was clear the show was no longer interested in pursuing the Nick/Valerie angle now that Sam Stevens was around. I like Eleanor Gault. I think there is some interesting things brewing, but I'm not sure they ever completely gel for me, but dialogue can sometimes bring things to life. I like the country club group with Ken, the wealthy boy who doesn't want to seem to go into business so instead he's tending bar at the country club. Alex Lockwood, the club manager, and his dynamic with wealthy alcoholic Nola Hollister. I'm curious to see how long this group is allowed to play out. In a way, December, 1968, feels like an end for the Ames family. Charlie Clemmons as the family foe is run out of town which also the family with little to do. I suspect the hope was Belle would be enough and while Marla Adams is certainly a capable actor, the newspaper angle ends up falling by the wayside. This in turn seems to leave Nick, Frank, and Jerry with little to do. I wish that the show had convinced Haila Stoddard to return as a more permanent presence (or even recasted) and had Charlie married to Pauline because Pauline as Belle's stepmother would be delightful. Thanks @FrenchFan for sharing these with us.

@robbwolff Thanks for your recollections about Tess. I do remember there being some inaccuracies (the one that stands out was her claim that Robert Jardin had been alive at some point in the story on "Where the Heart Is" which she later admitted her error), but I've since seen several things over the years that weren't posted elsewhere in source materials and newspaper columns that she had stated first. Personally, I don't think Tess made up the Agnes Nixon/"Brighter Day" story, but I would definitely agree that is a claim lacking sufficient evidence for many people. I remember some of the Todd Strasser drama as I remember he was making claims like he had been the one to write the line about Adair and Chase's exit on "Search for Tomorrow" and him specifically stating to a question that I asked that the decision to cancel "The Catlins" had been made before the filming of the Thanksgiving episode, which was just inaccurate. I've seen Todd Strasser's other identity on Facebook in recent years and I'm not sure if its an imposter or the original poster from WoST. There is definitely a stock type of soap opera message board posters that could be reviewed. @Donna L. Bridges I couldn't locate "The Brighter Day" post. I think most of the posts I saved were from circa 2010. In my review today, I had also found stuff I had clearly saved from the late Steve Frame's soap opera message board as well. I don't seem to have any from WoST. @Paul Raven Not necessarily in this instance, but Irna Phillips is also a source of lot of soap opera history misinformation. For instance, the Wiki page in question cites Phillips as the creator of "The Brighter Day" when it was in fact Orin Tovrov. Phillips threw a creator credit on the show when she brought it to television, but the she started writing the show in 1951 two years after Tovrov created it.

I might have the post somewhere. I recently uncovered a couple documents I had saved with a bunch of posts from that board. If I locate the specific post, I will place it in this thread.

This was mentioned years ago on a soap opera board (run by @danfling) The poster (who went by the handle Tess, but I believe her name was actually Chrissy or Christine) that mentioned the mother/daughter combo on "The Brighter Day" had an extensive collection of soap opera material both video and script. They would post pretty vivid recounts of material they had recently watched. She has briefly worked in the soap opera industry in the 1980s as I specifically remember Tess speaking about working on "Another Life." Tess stated that Agnes Nixon was hired to work on "The Brighter Day" just before it had been cancelled and had proposed a mother/daughter duo where the mother was a beautician and the daughter was a social climber. Tess disappeared from the boards probably a decade or more ago, which is a shame because she was a wealth of knowledge. I suspect the wiki entry is from a fan who recalled what Tess had shared rather than Tess herself.

Belle was originally suppose to die. I think the changed it and wrote out her daughter instead.

It's probably the strongest set of episodes I've seen since the January 1990 start, but I've only seen January-August 1990 completely and intermitten stints from November 1990-December 1991. You are right though. There are too many threads playing at once or too much story being burned through in one section. In some ways, the problem is its a reset. For example, I think the Ned-Jenny romance is a strong story thread. I'm not necessarily rooting for Jenny and Ned (or Jenny and Paul for that matter) but the looming business conflict between Ned and Bill Eckert, the (all too brief) attempt by Tracy to make a lady out of Jenny, the return of Anglela as Tracy's enemy, and Jenny's angst over being engaged to Ned while lusting after Paul is all enjoyable. It just needs to play out slower with people reacting more. One of the nice story crossovers is Paul, after saving Tracy from the Cartel, has said two things in the hospital: one not to let Tracy die and admitting his love for Jenny. This is heard by Monica, of all people, which gives her and Alan something to cluck over. Tracy badgering Monica for more info on what Paul said in surgery is delighful and it has the potential to explode. If that was played slowly, with Tracy wondering what was said while also trying to "tame" Jenny, leading to the engagement with Angela's return I think that could have played out for months instead over several episodes. Almost everything with Dom and Mac that plays out in a month could take about six, but anchoring the show's core triangle around three (relatively) new charactes was a mistake. Mac is the veteran having arrived in March, 1990. At least with Jenny and Ned, both actors may be new, but Ned has been around for a bit. I will say though, some of the Jenny/Ned conflict is basically a replay of Dawn/Ned, but at least the show isn't afraid to lean into that down the line with the David Langton stuff. One of the things I had been considering, which I didn't hate, was I wondering if there were so many story threads because of Monty's intention to reshape the show in the image of "EastEnders" and the Brit soaps. I'm realizing some of the more annoying elements can be connected to that (the introduction of the Eckert clan as well as the insistence that characters state their ethnicity over and over without it being meaningful or (in the case of Michael Lynch as Mexican Connor) inappropriate. Also, Monty's last month feels very sweeps like with the return of Holly, the plane crash, Dom and Mac's decision to sleep together, and A.J.'s DUI. I think one of the nicer things Wendy Riche does is slow the show down. For some reason I was thinking Sturges was at "Days of our Lives" later than she was. A.J.'s date Marilyn was a blonde, but it probably wasn't Sturges as you pointed out she was a brunette and on DOOL. At first the Adkins connection sounded like Luke, but Luke isn't dead. Not really sure where this story was suppose to go as it definitely seems like it was something Linda Grover brought to the show. There are definite replays of some of her work on "The Doctors" as young nurse Sheila Cantillion has gotten a visit from her stepfather Peter Kaufman who's presence from her past is evoking the same sort of dread that sexual abuse survivor Missy Palmer seemed to endure on "The Doctors."

Ok. I'm trying to piece some of this together. @Paul Raven Thanks for what you've added. During the trial, it came out that Andrea was responsible for the death of Len's twin brother Jamie who died while Andrea was committing adultery, correct? I could see how that would be pretty life altering because Len had been poisoned against Sam for years and then learned that his mother was the true problem. It's interesting that based on what it is said, Jo learns about the paternity on March 27th, 1970, so the secret comes out to someone fairly quickly. I'm wondering if Grace did decide to go off to be with Bill Frazier or at least claimed he was the father and either joined him or claimed she was joining him. I'd offer up to other possibilities for how the baby got back: either cousin Harriet brought the child back or possibly Dr. Bob Rogers since he appears close.

I'm continuing my walkabout of the early 1990s and have landed in the final days of Gloria Monty's second round. It would appear that Monty had realized the errors of her way and started to make some decisions that were moving the show in a much stronger direction and setting the show up for Wendy Riche's arrival to a canvas that had more story potential than actual story. In the late December 1991 episodes I watched, a couple things stand out. The Quartermaine family is back in full force. Edward was brought back from the dead. Jason is home from boarding school. Monica and Alan are actual present and tied into the messy quadrangle between Tracey / Paul / Jenny / Ned. It is all quite appealing. A.J. is starting to drink. He has brought booze and strippers to his friend Chip's house only for Chip's parents to come and tell Monica and Alan that all of Port Charles thinks that A.J. is an entitled priveleged jerk and the product of Alan and Monica's dysfunctional marriage and poor parenting. It's a wild thing to see play out (and again after after A.J. manages to be charged with a D.U.I. I can see how A.J. is later a sidelined character. Monty brought on an aged A.J. in mid 1991 and didn't build a world for him. She inserted him into the slot of young male with James Morrison's Joey Moscini leaving. I wonder if they were planning on bringing in the younger Eckert, Ava, for A.J. Anyway, instead, they just went with Sheila / A.J. and brought on Eric Simpson, which is not a terrible choice, but certainly one that needed more work. At this point (December), A.J.'s been on nearly six months and only now are they starting to figure out the character's trajectory. He is the older, screw up brother of the golden boy Jason. This early A.J. / Jason dynamic is fascinating to me as A.J. becomes very protective of Jason in the early days of Sean Kanan. Hopkins is fine to me. He doesn't thrive in the big emotional stuff, but he bothers me less than Sean Kanan did in the material I saw him in. Hopkins' A.J. suffers because his world is so small and fluid. I've seen maybe three weeks and each week there seems to be a new blonde that A.J. has taken out (I think the one he got into a car accident with might be Shannon Sturges, but the actress doesn't seem to be credited). I like all the character work, but it hasn't materialized into a big story yet. Also in December, Shell Danielson has assumed the role of Dominique, fresh from the mental hospital. Now the merry widow, Dominique swoops back into Port Charles and decides she is going to fight Whitney Kershaw's Charllie Ahearn, a psychiatric nurse (every outgoing EP loves to introduce a naughty nurse on their way out the door), for Mac, who has been on less than a year. The story gets a good chunk of time with some nice shades of gray writing with Charlie potentially gaslighting Dominique only for primetime actor Casey Sander (in the credits) to appear as a no named "Stalker" who attacks Dominique in her apartment after slashing women on the docks. Going into the New Year, this is set to be the big triangle, but then, the new year happens... In the meantime, the end of 1991 also brings minor movement in other plots. Bill and Julia reunite after spliting when Bill admitted he killed Harlan and the two fight over a loophole in Bill's contract. Ned seems to be gunning for some sort of corporate allignment in order to get control of ELQ. This is all complicated by Paul facing criminal charges for his involvement in the Cartel's plot to hurt the citizens of Port Charles. Overall, the show seems to be moving. It's not always super exciting but the parts are moving into place for something big to happen. The overload of new characters is slowly fading. Eddie Ryder is back as Slick Jones for the holidays and hangs around (it appears) until early Wendy Riche. Tracey has brought Nita Talbot's Delphina to the Q mansion to plan the nuptials of Jenny and Ned in early January. There's a sense that the show is more grounded than it has been in other sequences I have seen from earlier in the year. Something that I hadn't realized was that Linda Grover was added as headwriter alongside Norma Monty in early January (the first episode I noticed her credited was January 6). Grover's arrival coincides with several things we have discussed in the recent or not so recent past. Right after Grover arrives, Bobbie is sitting at General Hospital reading Joseph (possibly Joshua initially) Adkins book Violence Unleashed (or something along those lines). The initial conversation with Tony regards whether or not someone can be redeemed as does the conversation that follows with Tom Hardy when Bobbie asks him if its ok she correspond with Adkins. In a further scene, Bobbie states that the book reminds her of someone she use to know who she felt could have been saved but died. I am assuming she is referring to Roy DiLucca, but maybe it was somoene else. Also, in terms of new story, there is an extensive set of scenes outlining the inner workings of General Hospital with a staff meeting where Alan has assumed the role of assistant chief of staff and he reviews who the department heads are with a chart included. This feels like something that Grover would do. She speaks in her interviews for "The Doctors" about how she needed to know the floor plans and the map of Madison. Then, Tom runs the staff through a trauma training, which is also used as a romantic moment for the forgotten Sheila and Eric. This training comes in handy a couple episodes later when a plane crashes into the Port Charles mall. The plane crash brings David Langton to the scene as he was on the plane and we first meet him in surgery with Monica who has flashbacks of Charleson and Pomerantz playing younger versions of their characters as David is about to head off to war. There are already sloppy elements to the David story, which I want to like. Initially, David is a "John Doe" though he is a well-known humanitarian. Ok, I'm willing to ignore no one in the hospital realizing who he is, but Monica, even after David's surgery, doesn't reveal who David is, which seems incredibly dangeorus given the concerns the team had going into surgery without any medical history. Furthermore, there is no real concern (from what I can see) about the fact that Monica's state of mind was further complicated during surgery by the fact she arrives at GH for the trauma work and finds a drunken A.J. in cuffs being arrested for DUI. This might be addressed later. Finally, if David was well known, why didn't Monica ever go looking for him before? Other stories are given new, and often interesting elements. Angela Eckert returns to town for her daughter's engagement party after a trip to Italy where her cousin Alphonso has now employed her as a brand representative in the States and we meet a much more glamorous Mama Eckert. Angela goes toe to toe with Tracey, which is quite fun. This nouveau riche version of "the baker's wife" (as Tracey refers to her) is an interesting change in character that gives some more layers to the Eckert/Quartermaine dynamic. The Charlie Ahern element of the Dom/Mac situation is being downplayed. There was a brief attempt to delay Dom and Mac going to bed by focusing on Dominique's recovery from her marriage to the late Leopold and the sexual violence that Dominque endured as his wife. I thought this was a very smart move, but it played too briefly. A lot of the show presently (January 1992) is the reaction to a past event which I don't hate, but sometimes I find it doesn't necessarily move things forward. Dominque is now in New York dealing with the IRS and other financial matters related to the Taub estate where she and Mac have now met her stunning British neighbor, Sabrina (Holly Sutton). Bill and Julia's relationship is now being complicated by the memory of Harlan. Julia has (what I believe is) a newly created flashback of a time a man tried to attack her sexually and she killed him. Michael Cole returns for the flashback to play Harlan as he claims he was the one who killed the man. Julia misses having her father as a protector which leads to a forlorn moment when a Christmas present (a baby doll) arrives which was a tradition from when Julia would leave each year to go back to school. Scott is up for disbarment because of his involvement with Nancy Eckert in the Eckert custody case. Ned's bigger goal (to destroy the canneries in order to regain the ELQ stock held by the Eckert-Hornsby-Barrett contingent) is revealed. It all works. There are also just more scenes with the hospital staff and patients. I'm curious why Linda Grover didn't work out. She's there at the start of Wendy Riche, but gone before Norma Monty. Monty is still EP as of January 30, but it seems like by February 15 or so Riche has taken over. Grover is still listed alongside Monty in February, but is gone by the first week of March. Monty is solo for the first part of March and then no headwriter is credited from late March-April before Maralyn Thoma arrives.

Thanks. The only real details I can add is that Grace had a brain tumor. It would definitely seem like Grace is pregnant as Len and Patti have just married and Grace is entertaining the proposal from an old flame. It's interesting that the thread regarding the paternity of the baby was allowed to go on for as long as it did, but maybe "Search for Tomorrow" was trying to do its own Mike Horton/David Banning style paternity plot. I'm thinking that "Search for Tomorrow" chose a different route when they expanded to an hour. Instead of fleshing out the canvas with long term characters in stories, they may have pushed for more issue based or short term story arcs the way some of the radio soaps use to do where a character came in to play a story and then exited with there being some impact on the mainstays, but while the core stories played out their own pace while the sub stories kept things moving.

I'm still stumbling through 1990 (I got to August but now I am jumping around to periods that capture my interest better). Joe Hardy takes over as EP in late 1989 or early 1990 I believe. He was the one who wanted to open up Anna for new possibilities, hence Duke was out and Casey was in. Hardy initially dumps the mob all in the same period (late February/early March) having Duke, Julian, and Olivia all quickly killed off. I'm very mixed on Casey. There are elements I enjoy (the early stuff mostly where Casey is experiencing the world for the first time), but I found the backend of the story drags until the conclusion. This will probably be unpopular, but I find Faison such a camp figure it's hard to take him as a serious threat. His opening story with the Crystal, his partner in crime Jacques, and the general sense of Faison's personality is just too much for me to take him seriously. The only thing I find mildly (and I do mean mildly) is the timeline of Faison and Anna's affair in terms of Robin's conception. I don't think they ever suggested onscreen that Faison might be Robin's father, but it was definitely something I was wondering. I struggle with most Robert/Anna material from this period. Katherine Delafield doesn't interest me. It seems pretty clear from about March 1990 that there is no Robert/Katherine story left to tell and there seems to be a slow build back to Robert and Anna with the double agent reveal in June. I saw some episodes from March, 1991, and Robert is fighting for his life after some bombing. Anna is crying a lot. Mac receives more visitors in jail than most people get during any hospital visit. I feel like that era of "General Hospital" no longer works in the early 1990s, but maybe I just haven't seen enough.

@Matt Powers I think it was Erwin Nicholson who sealed Sailor's fate. Nicholson arrived right around the time Sailor did in March, 1985. I think Nicholson came in knowing that Sherry Mathis was considering leaving and felt that the possibility of a juicy storyline would have kept her. Glynn seemed to be heading in the direction of Sailor / Liza / Lloyd with Lloyd and Liza co-parenting T.R. which would eventually lead to conflict and a non-romantic pairing that might have required co-habitation or a relationship down the road. In the long game, Lloyd and Liza as the long game until you could bring Travis back made sense. Introducing a Travis-lite in the form of Sailor would have to do for the moment. I don't know why Avila Mayer and Braxton went the predatory route with Sailor / TR, but they always seemed to be trying things that were different. Some worked, some didn't. I think Jeanne Glynn had a very clear plan for Wendy. I don't think the custody battle for Jonah would have ended as quickly as it did. I think the Wendy-Sunny rivalry would have also played into some other aspect of the canvas and I wouldn't have been surprised if Glynn had paired Wendy and a recast Alec in some sort of messy shape with Chase, Adair, and Justine all intertangled with Quinn. Wendy was often rudderless other than the brief period where she emerged as Wendy the husband stealer. Lisa Peluso is amazing but she had so many bad storylines. Similar to Marcia McCabe. I know people don't like how Tomlin has a tendency to not give characters clear exits. It is smart move when you consider how few people who watch actually followed things like the magazines. Characters fading into the background made things seem less chaotic. It is just a terrible way to end one's story. Adair and Chase meet the same fate as Wendy during the same time period. I think Hogan and Liza should have been at low places together. TI should have been in a financial crisis when they wrote out Kentucky Bluebird and with him the government project to build the prototype should have also died. Liza should have defaulted on the government loans and been in bad financial shape leading Lloyd to sweep in and buy a chunk of TI (which he does later anyway under more calculated circumstances). This would have pissed off Martin, who should have returned to Henderson in a recurring capacity at the least. Hogan and Liza bond over their mutual grief while Lloyd and Sunny (who should have been nominated for a journalism award) would have been having the time of their professional lives. There are a lot of less interesting recasts in the NBC run. Lambie is serviceable as a version of Lloyd who was already so watered down. Given Louan Gideon and Jacqueline Schultz hiring later in the year, this just seemed to be the trend. Haskell was more charismatic and sexier (in my opinion) as Lloyd. I don't blame Haskell for leaving though. Lloyd was a supporting character at that point and as C.J. Field on "Rituals" he was a major player. Danny, TR, and Ryder are a decent teen set. It's a shame they didn't develop them further.

I never know what to think about Avila Mayer and Braxton's take on Sailor. It is definitely creepy. The initial concept presented by Jeanne Glynn intrigued me, but I block out that there is definitely an uncomfortable tension in the scenes between TR and Sailor once Glynn is gone. I remember briefly thinking there were moments where they were laying the groundwork for Sailor to be Ryder's father, but I think that was just a conclusion I drew that may not have had much in story support. I like Hogan returning disillusioned by his experience in Hollywood, but I find him blowing off Sunny the way he did to be obnoxious. I do like Hogan / Liza as an arc, but not as an end game couple. Sunny's clinginess is a turn off, but Sunny has never been well utilized other than the original Hogan romance during the NBC years. Quinn and Wendy last as long as Braxton and Mayer do. I like what happens with Wendy, Quinn, and Sarah, but Michelle Joyce is very green. At times, I like the idea of stories more than the execution. There are some nice set of scenes involving the characters, but the overall story may be weaker than I remember. I dovetails into a rivalry between Chase and Quinn, which also had potential. Then, the writing staff changes. Tomlin sets up Quinn in a new direction and Lisa Peluso jumps ship not long after, but not before a storyline involving Stephanie I don't think you'll enjoy too much. The Suzi/Cagney premonition stuff isn't my favorite either. I do like the more character based stuff later on with Kate and Suzi, but it's not the kind of gripping tale one would expect for a NBC style supercouple like Suzi and Cagney.

I'm on episode 2 and the show has a slow start like I remember. The central conflict seems to be around who will get to control Gabriel. Will it be his new wife, Rachel, the waifish city girl who recently married him after a short courtship? Or will it be his hellraiser sister Charlie, who's desire to monopolize her brother's time borders on obsessive? Or will it be his meddling mother Jessica, who wants to maintain her strong bond of emotional intimacy despite the fact he has married. There is another potential contender, but they haven't been revealed yet. I forgot how much of the show was about Rachel's outsider position in the family. On the initial viewing, I felt a bit bad for Rachel as the Rattigans come off as so overwhelming with their dinners and church services. I think familyless Rachel is no better or worse than Jessica. Rachel needs to respect that she is joining a family, while the Rattigans need to recognize that Rachel needs to be brought into the family circle. Ultimately, this is about who has control over Gabriel, who is such a dependent character. His career as an artist has left him dependent financially on his family, presumably during his time in London but most definitely now that he is living in the Lodge after marrying Rachel. He was dependent on heroin to cope, now he is dependent on methadone to stay off heroin. He is also dependent on mommy dearest to maintain the treatment. Some of this is rather salacious. Gabriel and his mother carrying on in his mother's bedroom over Gabriel's dirty little secret. Gabriel is just as guilty in the potential conflict between Rachel and Jessica as he is keeping Rachel on the outs and placing Jessica in a position of privileged information which cannot help his own marriage to Rachel. I think the show is definitely leaning into the incestuous vibes between Jessica and Gabriel with Jessica going as far as offering to decorate the bedroom in the Lodge much to Rachel's horror. I still think Charlie would go to bed with Gabriel if he let her and her obsession with Thomas is more about her inability to land Gabriel. I still find Emma Roberts' Charlie one of the most insufferable characters. I know most people hated Lucy Robinson's Rachel, and she is a bit of an elitist pain in the ass, but I do feel she loves Gabriel and that she seems to want less of Gabriel for her own selfish gains. Edward's morality is hilarious given what is coming next. I still don't care much for Lenny and Mark, but there story seems a counterpoint to other stories so I don't mind. i think things pick up much more in a few episodes. By episode 4, I feel like things already start to feel much different.

I'm probably gonna hate myself for thinking too much into this, but is this soap within a soap thing suppose to be something that Samantha Evans did prior to her death?

In the late 1980s, Gene Palumbo revisits this characterization during Simone's pregnancy. Audrey becomes a bit meddlesome and is coaching Simone on how to handle the situation in which Simone is married to Tom and unsure if the baby is Tom's or her former lover Harrison Davis'. The result of her part in this leaves Audrey ostracized by both Tom and Steve and leads to some nice scenes where Audrey has to deal with the fallout of her actions. It is by no means a big story, but it is one of the nicer beats Palumbo has a tendency to play in his B- / C-stories often featuring the longterm hospital staff.

Susan Carey Lamm is Adair #2. She had appeared on "Another Life" in its final year. I think Lamm comes across as very cold even when she doesn't intend to. Adair is definitely suppose to be more mature when Lamm assumes the role. There is a fairly strong scene between her and Justine where they are watching an old movie and they share their views on love and romance. Adair never really gets off the ground from what I recall. Part of the issue is timing. Both Barrett and Glynn leave in March, which is the same month Quinn arrives. To me, Quinn is the most intersting McCleary. With a still indevelopment characterization, and a romantic lead (Alec) out the door, Adair was destined for failure. By the time Tomlin arrives, I remember Adair's coldness being channeled into her position at the Herald and it being rather effective. The even flirted with a pairing with Ryder, but that never went beyond a chemistry test, but the story potential was clear. Ryder was with TR, Adair was with Chase, and Ryder was working at the paper. They had earlier flirted with pairing Ryder with his guidance counselor at the tale end of Avila Mayer and Braxton, but again, that's an aborted story. I think Lamm is most effective as Chase's girl Friday during the San Marcos story in October, 1985, but it is a suppoting role at best.

Lemay's gripe was that all the characters were living in the same situation and that there was no real diversity in the living situation. Without a multigenerational element, he argued that an array of conflicts were being overlooked. I wouldn't say he was wrong. I don't get any sense of generational feel in terms of story or type of story. I acquired quite a bit of "The City" recently. Even in stuff where there are clear generations (the dueling paternity reveals of Zoe and Richard / the Roberts family secret) there is just something that is off. In the case of story number one, a lot of the adult story with Nick / Sydney / Lorraine / Jared feels secondary to Zoe and Richard's romance. It doesn't help that Joel Fabiani is so campy in the role that Jared is a non-entity. I also don't get any sense that the adults are experiencing stories differently from the younger characters. In the case of story number two, the parents are paper thin which is ashame because there is definitely mileage in that story if it wasn't being presented as if it was scripted for a mid-1990s talk show. The idea of a created family is interesting, but I don't think the show really invested in that concept enough. I will say, rewatching the reveal of Gwyn as the killer, the confrontation between Angie and Lorraine holds my interest as much as Gwyn's confession and certainly more than the cop shop scenes. @DRW50 Thanks for the foreshadowing video. My thoughts on the serial killer plot are pretty well known so I won't rehash that too much. I will say I am curious when the writing team knew they were going to go that route. Some of the material, in my opinion, is a stretch on foreshadowing. The Stacey/Buck/Tess material was so thin after Nixon left because she had made that story so plot heavy that Laurie McCarthy and Addie Walsh fumbled it because they had no clue where to take that group next especially when they dropped Janie. I don't think Tess worked with any writer other than Nixon. Her dealing tarot seems to be about as interesting as anything Tess had in the final half of 1994. Buck and Stacey talking about Deborah of all people shows how little material they have. I also think that Gwyn as a psychologist is odd, but her "I've been taking courses for a while" is even more so. Having watched a bit of "The City" recently I've noticed that Brown and Essensten are decent at pulling random threads together to build cohesion when it shouldn't be there. In early May 1996, Buck dates some random art gallery owner who is later revealed to be an FBI agent in the mob story with the Soleitos. I don;t think that was the intention when she was introduced.

I believe Ettlinger replaced the Averys, but there is so much lost soap opera history that it wouldn't surprise me if there was someone else in between. Don Ettlinger and Joe Hardy had worked together on "Flame in the Wind," which became "A Time for Us." Hardy had co-created that show with screenwriter Raphael Hayes. The setup for the Farrell / Reynolds clan and the Garrisons was very similar. On the prior show, Jason Farrell was the older patriarch and head of a publishing company (wasn't Chandler Garrison also a publisher) who had a younger second wife, Rita Lloyd's Leslie Farrell who was a terrible flirt (similar I believe to LIAMST's Jean Hurley) and there was a grandson Steve who was torn between two women (much like Chandler's son Spencer). I may be wrong on Hardy and Ettlinger crafting the Garrison clan. I suspect, without looking, that I probably speculated earlier that the Averys had created the Garrisons because of the characters seemed like they would have fit well into Averys upper middle class Woodbridge from their time on "The Secret Storm." I don't know how long Joe Hardy was at LIAMST but I wonder if the working class Chernaks weren't something he was involved with as they a very ethnic sounding name like the Skerba clan did on "Flame in the Wind." No clue who wrote what, but I suspect Ettlinger couldn't have been there too long if he ended up at "Secret Storm" some time between 1969-1970. Good luck. I think the best source for the Averys "Storm" work would be the Elward collection. I think there is another script writer from "Storm" that has a collection (Milton something) who may have written during their era. I tried several years back to know avail. The Averys had two daughters who married in the late 1960s / early 1970s. Maybe they would have something left of their parents' writing legacy, but maybe not. Does the WGA keep record of their holdings for the public? I know Claire Labine told me she intended to donate all of her material for "Ryan's Hope" to the WGA West upon her death.

@Joseph Thanks. The link to the episodes was posted to the YouTube episodes was posted in the "Families" thread so I had just embedded the link to a single episode above. Thank you for taking the time to post the individual links, as I know there are some who prefer that. Did you watch of the links you posted? If so, what were your thoughts? *** The next batch takes us into the second season from early April, 1996 until the end of June 1996. I believe the show was now being aired on another network (or am I thinking "Springhill"?). Anyway, the cast list and summaries are below. There was less production information provided by the BFI on these episodes. Similarly, the cast list may be a bit off as some of the characters are listed in episode summaries, but not lists themselves. If I felt it was definitive they were in the episode, I included it with no note. Some I noted below. There were a couple of times where characters are mentioned (Jessica fights with Mark about Lenny, Lenny plans Ben's birthday party) where I didn't include them because it didn't sound like they were present, but they may have in fact been present elsewhere in the episode. No one is credited for playing Simon Jenkins. Also, I think Caroline Thomas may be Caroline Blackwell from season one, the maid of honor from Gabriel and Rachel's wedding. This I may be wrong on. It's interesting to see how certain characters who were prominent in season 1 quickly fade into the woodwork in season 2. Judy Loe as Jessica Rattigan (2.1 – 2.11, 2.13) * Gary Cady as Steve Whittaker (2.1 – 2.11, 2.13) Carole Nimmons as Mary Beckett (2.1 – 2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.10 – 2.11, 2.13) Emma Roberts as Charlotte “Charlie” Rattigan (2.1, 2.3, 2.6 – 2.10, 2.12) Nina Marc as Helena “Lenny” Rattigan Tyler (2.1 – 2.3, 2.6 – 2.8, 2.10 – 2.13) Matthew Radford as Mark Tyler (2.1 – 2.8, 2.10 – 2.13) Miles Harvey as Jimmy Moran (2.1 – 2.3, 2.6 2.7, 2.10, 2.12) James Weber-Brown as Daniel Tyler (2.1, 2.3 – 2.4, 2.6 – 2.10, 2.12) Amanda Wenban as Ruth Tyler (2.4 – 2.6, 2.9 – 2.13) Sue Holderness as Joan Travis (2.11) Stephen Mapes as Gabriel Rattigan (2.1 – 2.4) Paul Shelley as Edward Rattigan (2.1, 2.7) Victoria Gay as Sophie Ross (2.1 – 2.3. 2.5) Lucy Robinson as Rachel Whittaker Rattigan (2.1) Katy Carmichael as Caroline Thomas (2.1) Margo Gunn as Anne Fraser (2.1) UNKNOWN as Simon Jenkins (2.3) Oliver Carroll as Ben Tyler (2.6, 2.11) * Mentioned in summary that suggests may (but may not) be present, but not cast list, 2.10: Miles Harvey, Judy Loe 2.11: the character of Ben REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 1 The Rattigan family celebrate Charlie's birthday, but Jessica is away visiting her husband Paul at his retreat, where he is recovering from a nervous breakdown. They are unexpectedly visited by Stephen Whittaker, who is determined to find his sister Rachel, who was murdered by Jessica. Mary, who is the only person who knows the truth about Rachel, panics and calls Jessica, who returns. She grudgingly suggests Steve stays at the house for as long as is necessary. a: 4 April, 1996 w: Russell T. Davies d: Kay Patrick p: Tony Wood REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 2 Jessica and Mary are worried that Steve knows too much about the family but are adamant that he cannot know that Rachel is dead. They decide to find letters Rachel wrote to Steve to determine how much he knows. Mark and Lenny are delighted that Jimmy has found himself a respectable girlfriend. Mark becomes suspicious and goes to visit her in the pub she works in. Gabriel makes Steve feel welcome and takes him to see the Lodge where he and Rachel lived after they married. Steve questions Gabriel about his feelings for Rachel, but Gabriel insists they were happy together. a: 11 April, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 3 Jessica holds a dinner party to say farewell to Simon, who is leaving the church. He talks about Edward for most of the evening. Lenny and Mark go out for the evening, and Sophie babysits. Sophie tells Jimmy about Mark's flirting, but he insists Mark is just being friendly. Steve has suspicions that Mary has been reading Rachel's letters kept in his room. He questions her, but Charlie arrives before she confesses. Steve goes to the dinner party and accuses Gabriel of murdering Rachel. a: 18 April, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 4 The Tyler family's financial problems are revealed. Ruth asks Daniel to repay money she has lent him, unaware of his own financial situation. She calls in at the Rattigans where she thanks Jessica for letting Mark and Lenny move into the Lodge. Jessica hopes that Mark will not cheat on Lenny again. Steve shows Gabriel an old Whittaker family album. Jessica joins them and is again persistently questioned by Steve. a: 25 April, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 5 Breakfast at the Rattigan's is an uneasy affair until the ice is broken by Steve who announces that he's leaving having outstayed his welcome. Ruth calls to see Mark to ask him for a loan. Jessica confesses to Steve that the Rattigan family played a role in Rachel's disappearance, but says she has no idea what actually made Rachel leave. a: 2 May, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 6 Ruth is happy to show Steve the church in which his sister was married. He asks her about Edward, explaining that he feels uncomfortable taking about her family. Jimmy looks after Ben for the afternoon, and Jessica gives him the keys to the lodge saying that Ben will be more at home there. Jimmy finds Mark in his underwear, and is suspicious. Later, there is an all night poker game, and Daniel loses everything, including his watch. a: 9 May, 1996 w: Brian B. Thompson d: Eugene Ferguson p: Anthony Wood REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 7 Lenny prepares for Ben's first birthday party. Instead of going to the party, Jessica visits Edward at his retreat to ask him about his future plans. Charlie provides a sympathetic ear for Daniel, and ends up telling him about her decent into drink, drugs and prostitution. She leaves, regretting having revealed so much. Jessica returns and is getting ready for the party when Steve enters her room. a: 16 May, 1996 w: Brian B. Thompson d: Eugene Ferguson p: Tony Wood REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 8 Lenny has gone back to the Rattigan home having found out about her husband's affair. Mary is unable to prevent Mark from bursting into the house demanding to see Lenny. Steve tells Jessica that what goes on between Lenny and Mark is none of her business, but she reminds him that he has no right to interfere. Charlie and Daniel keep out of things, and Charlie has a solution to Daniel's money problems. a: 23 May, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 9 The relationship between Charlie and Daniel is far from steady, as she has confessed her past indiscretions to him. Ruth discovers from Jessica the money Daniel has given her has come from Charlie. Jessica tells Ruth she doesn't want Mark or Daniel to associate with her daughters. After her argument with Ruth, Jessica feels depressed and isolated. Steve comforts her, and Jessica is glad that he decided to stay with the family a little longer. a: 30 May, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 10 Mary feels threatened when Steve offers to make dinner for her and Jessica, and suspects Steve and Jessica may be in a relationship. Ruth presumes the rift between Charlie and Daniel is caused by Charlie lending him money. She is fed up of supporting her children now they are grown up. Lenny moves into the Rattigan home having left Mark, and when she goes to a party she spends most of the time with Jimmy. a: 6 June, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS SERIES 2, PART 11 Having returned the £2000 to the Rattigan family, Ruth turns to an alternative source. Mary is not impressed when Steve announces is staying for a while, but Jessica is keen to help him. Lenny takes Ben to see Mark and tells him that it is over between them. Mary welcomes the arrival of Joan Travis to the parish as the new vicar. a: 13 June, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 12 Despite a temporary solution to her financial worries, Ruth is still adamant that Mark and Daniel should find work and start paying their way. Jimmy asks Lenny to meet him, but she declines. Mark visits Jimmy, who tells him a few home truths. Charlie and Daniel have patched things up and enjoy an afternoon together. a: 20 June, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ?? REVELATIONS: SERIES 2, PART 13 Jessica tells Steve their relationship is over. Mary is unconvinced when Jessica tells her. Ruth is amazed to hear Jessica's apology for neglecting church business, but is horrified when Jessica tells her she wants to look through the accounts. a: 27 June, 1996 w: ?? d: ?? p: ??

I thought I read Ira and Jane Avery wrote scripts for Phillips and assumed the roles of headwriters after she left once they wrote out Mia Elliott in February, 1968. It always sounded like the Averys were intended to be interim writers since they had already been working on the show. I wonder now if Jane and Ira weren't simply working off Irna's projections.