P.J.

It really is ridiculous how happy episodes from 40 years ago make me. God, MKA is so young!

It surprises/disappoints me too that GL's ratings during '89-'93 don't reflect the quality of the show. But when I call it great soap, I'm not defining that by ratings either. I'm probably in the minority, but I think Reilly takes something intangible with him when he goes. There's a sense of humor that just disappears in '93.

I tend to stay out of EP discussions, simply because I rarely know who EPs when. And they all have their good and bad sides. But how are we supposed to judge JFP on anything other than what we see? I didn't know she was a director or a music director. (and unlike say, Chris Goutman, I never saw her credited as anything other than an EP) Specifically in the matter of casting Crampton, she took credit for it (or at Crampton gave her credit for it, whatever) and it was arguably, one of the worst recasts of the '90's (and either as bad or worse than the actress she fired). She lost two important actresses in '92 and still decided to kill Maureen. She had a wildly uneven tenure at GL. It's no wonder she's polarizing. But it kind of proves a point--great soap is always a that rare combination of everything clicking at the same time. And believe me, if I could bring myself to watch her male successors who were responsible for bringing back Reva and allowing her to eat the show again, or hiring Hunt Block, or being too chicken to stand up to stans who and hamstrung the show with boring couples stuck in the same repetitive stories (Vanessa/Matt, Chelle/Danny or Richard/Cassie, take your pick) not to mention San CristoHELL....I'd be more than happy to roast them on open spits. I guess we end up talking about JFP because she's in a period we can nominally agree was one of the last "best" periods of the show.

Right? GOD FORBID Vanessa be allowed to cut her own mother-in-law down to size, when REVA REVA REVA needs a rival to sharpen her claws on. RME I mean, they could have, but Long and Curlee (like most HW) seemed to forget about characters once they left town. If they mentioned Trish five times in the ten years she was gone, I'd be surprised. Yeah, Alex didn't really do friendship, other than Lillian. And most of the time, Henry. And somehow, by the time she leaves, Sonni is some friend of Mo's? Mo is just everyone's default "friend". SMH.

I also never understood Alex's friendship with Sonni or keeping the secret of Marah's paternity. Not exactly heartbroken about Ms. Sally being ushered to the Hereafter.

And in case anyone is confused; Rusty was hired by HB to work undercover and infiltrate some gang sabotaging Lewis.

aww....thanks, and bless your mom for sharing that with you. I mean, I assumed that Tim would have to be different from Billy--but I still can't wrap my head around a pairing of Jordan with Evie.

This is me *pea green with envy* *sigh* The Reva vortex was like an F5 tornado. Widespread mayhem and damage.

What I wouldn't give to have any of Jordan's run as Tim surface. I wish there was more of early '81 online. It would be fascinating to see Alan/Rita play out. I guess I'm too set in my ways...I'd be horrified at a Van/Alan marriage. Not that it wouldn't have been great to see more of Chris Bernau with Maeve.

You could see some kind of Rita/Vanessa showdown being set up, whether it was over Ed or Alan in 1981. (as Vanessa/Henry used the affair to blackmail Alan) But it doesn't seem like Ed/Vanessa were given a lot of time to work, when they only entered each other's orbit in March after Vanessa's "suicide" attempt. Rita's gone by June, it seems and Mart was fired. OG Vanessa seems to be the negative-reverse of Rita. Rita made unfortunate and selfish decisions, but she was never malicious or scheming. In '87, Alan just seems like the irritant in Vanessa's relationship with Ross. Alan's only real interest in Vanessa was her Chamberlain stock (as he's involved in the weird art forgery/Valere mess and had kicked Phillip and Alex out of Spaulding) and Vanessa and Reva seem more invested in egging each other on than in Alan. When she leaves for Venezuela, Vanessa explains to Reva she wasn't in love with Alan, but thought she could be in a "modern" marriage and enjoy the power that came being Mrs. Spaulding (or something like that). But she realized when Billy called that he needed her , while all Alan needed was a "suitable" hostess. She also tried warning Reva from getting further involved with Alan, but of course, Reva ignored that advice. They even seemed to be setting up another go round between Ross and Vanessa on her exit. They have a tender goodbye, while Alan arrives too late to make an appeal for her to stay.

Robert Colbert.

I'm more than a little spotty on '70's GL history myself. I don't know a lot about Peggy and Roger at all, in fact in reading some stuff, I was a little surprised Roger had been married before Holly. I don't know if Elvera was ever open to coming back. Although she was most identified with the role, I don't think it's hers for particularly long--maybe five years? It took them around twelve years to recast Amanda, and then they changed her entire personality and dropped her relationship to Jennifer and Morgan. I think Ed and A-M were closer when it was Carl Evans in the role. Rick Hearst was interacting with the Bauers, but he's always in the middle of some Spaulding plot, whether it's Phillip-drama or A-M trying to make his Spaulding bones.

I'm pretty sure they didn't. I think one of the Michelles explains that she'd always known Maureen wasn't her biological mother, and that it was never really a secret. And that to me seems consistent with Maureen's personality and philosophy.

I think in part they feared a backlash over a recast. And the fact they wanted to emphasize A-M's Spaulding-ness, if you will. Did Michelle actually mention naming her daughter after Hope, or did that current regime simply stumble on the name and forget there was already a Hope in the Bauer family? 'Cause I know which theory I'd be first to believe. As I wasn't a Nancy St Alban or Manny fan, I'd forgotten she had a daughter, and when I rewatched the last episodes, it too me more than a little while to connect Hope Santos with Hope Bauer. I could be wrong about when he was arrested. I know in '93, physically, he looks bad. I'm glad in the end he prioritized his health, but I'll always wonder how everything would've played out with Peter's custody had Jordan been in the role. I do know he's not in the clone story much after the beginning, but I'd always assumed that was because of Jordan's recurring status and the difficulty of trying to explain how Billy could've been fooled by a teen clone when he'd known Reva all her life.

Are you talking about maybe Ken's wife? The one he'd shot Ed over? I didn't realize he'd attempted another rape. I have caught some of the '79 episodes, and it blew my mind that Roger had slept with Hillary. And while married to Holly. What I got was that his obsession was really about Ed, and feeling inferior to him. So much like he ended up sleeping with the daughters of his enemies in the '90s', he's out to hurt Ed via the women in his life. I guess I had assumed Charita's leg amputation was due to cancer, the same as Bert. But yes--she's so good in those scenes with Josh.

I don't think the comparison is a disservice to Jordan. Yes, Beverlee is mesmerizing as the antagonist, taunting Billy and reveling in the thought of destroying the image of Mindy that Billy had. It's a self-destructive masterpiece. But I think we can all think of times when one actor manages to suck all the air out of the room during confrontations. It's a credit to Jordan that he doesn't let that happen in this instance, and is so effective in the less flashy role. If you don't believe this is ripping Billy right down to his foundation, then the scene isn't as effective. The actor who replaced him was Geoffrey Scott, who had most notably been on Dynasty. Jordan was fired after being arrested on drug charges.

Yes, Ed is Alan-Michael's great uncle. Hope divorced Alan in '83, and never came back to town. During the decline of her marriage to Alan, she'd succumbed to alcoholism like Ed ad her grandfather Bill. She's living off-screen in NY near Mike (I believe), but A-M never mentions her much, other than to say growing up with an alcoholic was hard. Charita Bauer passed away in '85 (I believe) after developing cancer. She had to have a part of her leg removed, and they wrote it in to her character's storyline. Josh is paralyzed in '83 after an accident, and she and Josh are rehabbing at the same time. Bert gives him this great inspirational pep talk, which I think is one of her last appearances. From what I've gathered, she was sicker than anyone really knew and passed rather suddenly. I'd actually never seen that I Love Lucy episode. I'm not a huge fan, and my knowledge is kind of limited to the chocolate candy factory and stomping grapes. LOL. I know there are only so many stories and ways to tell them, but GL never shied from copycatting anyone. Nola was constantly in some movie fantasy, Josh/Reva/HB/Billy play out Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, and I've come to think of Billy/Vanessa's wedding/Alex's arrival as a Grand Hotel/30's screwball comedy mash-up. I don't know...I don't think I've ever watched the entire thing. There's that ridiculous painting of Van (which I guess is supposed to be the "warmer" side of her...) which distracts me. Billy, as I recall, doesn't get to say much, and as I can't stand Matt, I focus on Ross' eulogy, which is just beautiful. He talks about how long he'd known her and Henry, and how even though he'd looked into her eyes a thousand times, what he'd miss most is not being able to look into them the thousand and first. (or something like that, it's been a while since I watched it.) A hula hoop sounds like Nola, but it might've been Henry's funeral. Although that one is most spent in dealing with Quint. Yes....the car is burned beyond recognition, but here's a perfect golden ring as proof you're loved one is really dead-dead. *sigh* Then again, I love the idea of Vanessa freed from that doofus and able to breathe the clean refreshing air of Switzerland. At least for a while.

I think when most fans now talk about Guiding Light and it's acting, the first name that springs to mind is Zimmer. It's not her fault, she won four emmys and certainly deserves her accolades. But it overshadows everyone else from that era. Even icons like Beverlee McKinsey and Michael Zaslow. On the male side, depending on how long you'd watched, it'd probably be Zaslow, Bernau or Aleksander, or even Justin Deas. Then you'd get to actors like JvD, Mart Hulswit, Don Stewart, Jordan, Robert Newman--guys who were there a long time, and never phoned anything in. I think for the most part, most fans liked Billy. And make no mistake, Billy's a tougher role than it looks--there are times Billy is an out and out [!@#$%^&*]. But (at least IMO) you were never forced to like Billy, unlike Reva who always got a big scene where the town ganged up on her and she's cry about how unfair it all was and how she had just lied (or whatever) because she loved Josh so much. OTOH, Billy's alcoholism was usually the root of his problems, but he never got the same kind of pass--he had to earn his forgiveness. I don't know why he had never gotten a emmy nomination before his win---JFP was a block voting guru in the early '90's, and Jordan has some heavy emotional material. There's a scene after Bill ran away in '92 (after finding out about Van/Fletch) where Billy's at an AA meeting, (after being a rock for Van) where he's just at the end of his rope that breaks my heart. (nowadays it would be called emmy bait) I don't know if personal politics got in the way of a nomination, if the leading/supporting male categories are just that tough at the time, or he kept himself off like Peter Simon While I think Roger's return was a sure-fire hit, I think it works so much better because of his conflict with Billy. Ol' Roger was running laps around that town outwitting the residents and playing them like violins. Even Alex. But Billy had his number and unlike Ed or Ross, he had a wider latitude in how to deal with people he didn't like. (It might've been different if Phillip hadn't left in '91, he'd learned at Alan's knee how to deal with enemies) A lot of first half of '93 works for me too. I've got Billy and Van working their way back together, the Peter story, Melissa Hayden is outstanding as Bridget, and the denouement of the Buzz and Nadine reveals at Frank and Eleni's wedding---is one riveting week of must see tv. But there are issues---Barbara Crampton is badly cast as Mindy. And the Nick/Eve/Mindy tale just doesn't work for me. I don't like Holly and Roger re-hooking up, and it was a very controversial story that didn't go over well with a lot of fans. It was one thing to kind of ignore Roger's rape of Rita on his return, but they had reminded us how brutal his rape of Holly was. She'd spent three years bristling at him and railing about how he'd ruined her life. While Bridget busting up Dylan/Julie's wedding kind of echoed Nola turning from villainess to heroine, Dylan and Julie are just a basic bland couple. My issue with Geoffrey Scott isn't as much about him (who I loved on Dynasty), as it is that he's just not Jordan Clarke. Scott can dress up in suits, drawl y'all or "Darlin' : Vanessa all night and buddy around with Josh---but he's not Billy. He's not awful--certainly not as bad as say Ron Raines taking over as Alan (or my personal most hated temporary recast, Sonia Stuart popping in for Maeve Kinkead over the years). But he's not Billy.

Yes, Bert Bauer was Ed's mother. Her other son Mike, was Hope Bauer Spaulding's father and Alan-Michael's grandfather. I've seen this episode and it does tickle my funny bone that Vanessa's first Xmas with Matt is spent reminiscing about her time with Billy. The catfight at the engagement party is (arguably) one of Guiding Light's most recognized and iconic moments. It's also where Vanessa meets Billy for the first time. Yes, the Lewises leaned heavily into the stereotypical "people from the south" archtype. A lot more when Reva showed up in town. Josh and Trish had arrived in Springfield two years before that, and didn't talk or act like that really. Billy arrived in May '83 and plays up the "good ol' boy" aspects more...but HB and Reva practically drown in the y'alls, yahoos and "down home" drawl.

I find myself amazed at how the story structure changed through the years. In the early '80's, it wasn't unusual for characters to pop up in the middle of the episode, have a five minute scene, and be gone. Characters have distinct spheres of the lives--work, family and romance. They can interact with other characters naturally---it's not just a set up to recap story. And contrary to common belief, the show doesn't move at a snail's pace. I think I got so grateful to find more than the odd Vanessa scene in the Quint/Nola or Josh/Reva clip sets (which was all I could find when I started out rewatching) that I got addicted. LOL. Beverlee McKinsey used to take an eight week vacation every year. I don't think anyone else got anything close to that.

I watched GL through the '90's, when it originally aired. On rewatch, I stick to the eras I like. As of right now, I just don't have the heart to go much past mid'93. (between some recasts and story developments, there's a lot and too much change for me to think I'd enjoy. I suppose it's specifically Jordan Clarke's departure that breaks my heart. Not that Billy overwhelms plot like Reva does, but he's a HUGE part of GL's resurgence from '89-'93 IMO) I do occasionally find myself cherry-picking things (the Peter custody trial, Van returning to town, etc) but I it's harder to avoid characters I don't like (ie Matt, Jenna, Reva, Buzz) who seem to suck up a lot of airtime. My idea of would be being forced to watch the suckfest that is Matt. (sorry Kurt McKinney fans) I've recently decided I developed a retro-active girl-crush on Maeve Kinkead. LOL. Because she's there for so long, and she grows so much, there's a Vanessa for every mood. LOL...everyone on a soap dies at least once. Reva "died" several times. I think it was always pretty much Maeve's choice when she took a break. She's gone for a year and a half from '88 to '89, and then this break, and then when she "retires" in '00. At that point, she'd been in the business 20-plus years between AW and GL, which is extraordinary and all the more remarkable considering all the regimes she survived on GL.

Well, like I said, his family occasionally slipped back to "Little Billy." And for a while, when Billy and Van were on the outs, they were constantly talking about "their little boy" and how they had to try and get along for his sake. It was kind of their excuse to have their feelings and interact, no matter who they were officially involved with at the time. You're right---Billy was at Van's memorial. I was happy they brought him back too, although he never again drives plot the way he had. But he truly is one of those lynchpin characters that GL was sorely lacking in the show's last years. RIGHT? I think it was supposed to have been at a Bauer BBQ. I don't know if it was in the script, or if Ellen Parker was giving them a subtle finger after getting fired by belting out a random song.

Thanks--I had wondered if Vanessa had interactions with Nadine during that time period. I see she didn't. It probably would've irritated me, but I would've thought it would've been a natural story point to at least have them occasionally bristle at each other. Yes, Billy's in jail until NYE '97, I think. HB, Billy and Bill are Harlan Billy Lewis I, II and III. (Although I'm not really sure if it's Harlan William, Trish would occasionally call Billy "William" when she was irritated with him.) HB is HB to everyone (except Reva, who occasionally reverted to Harlan). Billy is Billy. Bill started out as "Little Billy", until he and Vanessa leave town in '88. When she returns in '89, she tells everyone that he wants to be known as Bill. His family occasionally slip back into "Little Billy", but for the most part, he's Bill from then on.

Because any woman over a size 4 couldn't have possibly been desirable to a man, rme. Oh, and I forgot the most weird thing of all----Maureen crooning The Doors "Light My Fire" on the video Van gave Ed and Michelle (that Nadine accidently played after the funeral.) "Our love become a funeral pyre?" COME ON. Maybe I could see Maureen having been into The Doors. But there was no flippin' way in hell Vanessa (to whom appearance is everything) is giving Mo's daughter that kind of imagery to remember her mom by. And then someone (whoever's writing in '96) basically copied and pasted this ridiculous idea to Van's memorial. Minus the singing. RME. I was completely unaware Roger had had a vasectomy. So, sort of like Roger also raping Rita...it got lost in the dustbin.

Can someone remind me - why did Vanessa get half custody of Peter? Matt wouldn't have been in the picture yet When Nadine was married to Billy, she was constantly worried Billy would leave her for Vanessa. (Not without reason, Billy had married her while drunk, and he was constantly making moon eyes at Van. He and Van even slept together while married to Nadine). She kept doing stupid things that sabotaged his trust in her. The breaking point was when Nadine leaked Van's name to a scandal rag. Van had nearly been raped by a business associate named Jack Kiley. She pressed charges, but wanted to keep her anonymity. The creep reporter outted Nadine after the trial was over, and Billy walked out on Nadine. Nadine hatched a scheme to get pregnant to save her marriage. When she couldn't lure Billy back into bed, she talked a pregnant Bridget into agreeing to give Nadine her baby to raise. It worked---Nadine knew Billy wouldn't walk away from his child. When it all came out, Vanessa realized that Bridget was Peter's mother. Maureen had died, and Bridget was going to ask Ed if she and Peter could move in with him and Michelle. They were having a hard time dealing with Maureen's death, and that discouraged Bridget from asking him. Billy meanwhile divorced Nadine in a nanosecond and proposed to Vanessa. Trusting that Billy loved Peter, and they would give the child a good home, Bridget allowed them to adopt Peter. Billy and Van divorced after Billy admitted shooting Roger, and Bridget took Van to court to get Peter back. The case got pretty ugly, with Ross tearing down Van on the stand, and Van's lawyer was ready to do the same to Bridget when Vanessa stopped him. Billy had written a letter from jail saying that Van and Bridget both deserved Peter, and they ended up agreeing to share custody rather than continue the case. Blake and Hart were not particularly close. There was a revolving door of Harts, and Blake of course had been green with jealousy when Roger found out he had a son. Hart was a "bad boy" after the first recast. OG Hart was a sweet, naive kid devastated to learn Roger was his father. OGBill was actually born a year before Michelle. When Budig was cast, it totally looked whack.