FrenchBug82

Yes. I have always said that one of the worst things about soaps is they have glamorized the on-and-off-and-on-and-off thing as "romantic" (soulmates making their way back to each other) rather than a abusive vicious circle. One major consequence of that is how weak it portrays women - because it is usually the female characters, of course, who have to do most of the forgiving and getting-over bad behavior. Nikki has never been interesting when married to Victor. All of her greatest stories have involved either her while in other relationships or, better yet, standing up to him.

Remember when Nikki saved Jabot with her money against Victor's wishes? Where has THAT Nikki gone? I get it, Victor is a legendary character and EB a pillar of the show. But the writers going along with his insistence that Victor always be the winner and be one step ahead of everyone is really hurting every character in his orbit. It does not make Victor any "less of a man" if Nikki has a personality.

That's one thing that I always thought made NY strong. The fact there was a core group of ladies with a lot of history with each other, including and especially pre-show and outside of the show. It is also the case with Gizelle and Karen: the best frenemies relationship are built out of knowing each other from before the show, even socially. They have each other's numbers Women who just met each other will fall out over the smallest dumbest stuff because they don't know each other. When the relationship is complicated BUT organic, it makes for a lot more compelling TV. Look at the interaction between Sonja and Ramona here. That kind of very biting shade/mockery but with some degree of affection and indulgence is not something you can replicate with an artificially constructed cast.

I can't knock her excitement humanly speaking because it is a big break, I get it. I just wish she had been gracious enough to word it differently. And considering the number of actors of all races B&B has hired, used six months and thrown away like a used tissue, she actually was treated pretty well on the work front: she was leading a major storyline in the past six months, well three years into her stint with them, which is not something that happens a lot at B&B outside the Forrester clan.

That's my issue with this entire storyline and Carly's family's pearl-clutching. HE IS A PROFESSIONAL KILLER. True, he didn't kill *Franco* but he has killed plenty fo people so 1) It is perfectly legitimate for ppl to believe he did 2) Even if he didn't, he does belong in jail for all these other crimes. So their self-righteous outrage just disgusts me. I wish they would spend more time exploring how her history of mourning might impact the bad choices she makes but I am actually not mad they show her still mourning Georgie, Nathan etc. Those kinds of big losses are so often memory-holed and I appreciate that Maxie carries that around with her even if it makes for dour viewing at times.

It looks very beautifully produced for what it's worth But it looks a lot more Apprentice-y to me than Housewives-y and while I don't expect it because it seems she'd prefer it be memory-holed, I would like to see her reference the fact she was once on the other side of this kind of "competition" (and while she did well, she was a mess!)

Of course but I am sure you realize that your reaction is exactly why they unnecessarily wrote that scene that way. They want us to sympathize with Ben despite his creepy abusive behavior. And the best way to do that is for Ciara to act like a b*tch rather than make the reasonable points she would be entitled to make. Presumably since they want him to be viable as a romantic lead once Ciara is gone, they want us to see *his* heart broken and feel bad for *him*.

They actually lasted a lot longer than I expected them to - even without the most interesting of them aka Maya around anymore.

Exactly. I am sure that because this is pilot season many are auditioning and Days will be their fallback but why turn it down if they have nothing else lined up? The appeal of soaps for actors has always been that it is a good steady guaranteed gig. I don't see any of them turning the paycheck down if they have nothing else lined up just to make a point. What point would they be making anyway?

Obviously Dallas was JR and JR was Dallas. Sometimes for great, sometimes a bit too much. But the choice of writing the men as "the stars" of the show was not a natural occurence, the way the women on Knots Landing for instance stood out despite the fact the writing was initially balanced. It was an intentional choice on the part of the creators, based on their worldview, and they stubbornly clung to it when other possibilities arose and female actresses overshone some of the intended "stars". A good show runner has a vision and then adapts that vision for what organically comes up on-screen. In this case, they didn't and I think it was at least partially about sexism as it was about their ego-driven need to insist they are right. I think the show would have been better had they realized that Sue Ellen and Pamela, who both were a lot more interesting, layered and likeable characters than Bobby and Cliff, should have been JR's main adversaries and foils.

Yes. The actual pacing and the way the pieces in various storylines are moving together is actually classic soap and I have no objections. I am wary of whether the climax will be a letdown compared to my expectations - see the Peter wedding fallout - but my giddiness looking forward to it is exactly what they should want and we criticize them enough that I am happy to give them credit for that.

Problem is, for me, that we saw it coming what now feels so long ago that the set-up, which necessarily takes time for us to believe Nina/"Mike" as a couple and then get us invested in the final reveals, feels like it is taking foooooooorever even though technically they are pacing it the way it should be. I'd say the main mistake for me was to have telegraphed that Nina was going to meet Sonny two or three weeks before she did. Had it happened as a surprise we'd still be digesting the thought and building up excitement for the fallout and accepting that they do need to write the setup slowly. But we wasted some time and had plenty of time to digest it and now it already feels overlong (especially since the Sonny amnesia story itself *has* been overlong).

I am probably an oversensitive overly protective soap fan but I am not a fan of the subtext of that "Dreams do come true" comment. Feels a bit belittling of her current job. Would it have hurt to pretend she is leaving a job she loves for an exciting new project rather than in essence saying she is finally landing a job she actually wants and does not have to cash a paycheck with a soap role anymore? Fake it at least until the show is actually successful, girl, because there are chances it won't be and some of us have long memories.

I suppose making no profit on a sure thing is better than taking a gamble on a new program that could be doing worse in the ratings and losing money, which is what partially happened to ABC after its soaps were cancelled.

Is there a good place, since that documentary is not close to being made :), for someone to read about Irna in more details, including some of the things you mention? I always learn bits and pieces on this forum and it sounds so fascinating but I could enjoy a more comprehensive story of hers.

Yes! That's a really key element I should have mentioned but YES. You are so right to bring it up. A HUGE problem with Dallas was that the people who created it and wrote it thought it was a show about the MEN and women characters functioned around them. That's how they missed how crucial Pamela was. I recently read a lengthy analysis of every season of Knots Landing and one KL writer explained that the season that was headwritten by a former Dallas writer (whose name escapes me) didn't work because he came in with the POV that Dallas was a show about men and he then struggled when trying to write Knots Landing where the female characters had already been established much stronger. But bringing it back to Dallas, that was the first time I realized that the writers were actually pretty open about that worldview and it was not just sexist subtext, which I had until then assumed. They really embraced it and wrote the show with that mindset. There were many sexist plot points that were easy to spot even at the time, but that also influenced bigger "strategic" calls: that's how we ended up with Pamela being written as a victim and then let go, Jenna being transparent as a character, Ellie being recast without second-thoughts, April defanged to get her man, Sue Ellen having none of the spirit and humor of LG, etc... Whether in writing or BTS decisions, it is clear sexism was at hand and it hurt the show. Everything we mentioned in this thread in the past few days can be traced back to that worldview of Dallas as a men's world.

April should have been written out after Bobby found out she had once slept with JR. News to writers: chemistry or not, if for a romance to work you need to change the characters involved - by turning April into a saint all of a sudden and making Bobby renege on his long-held and very solid principle of not hooking up where JR has been - then it should be a no-go, period. If they wanted a pseudo-replacement for Pamela they should have introduced a new character altogether - especially since investing in April ended up for naught when the actress got pregnant. April was fine for a while but what they did to pair her with Bobby was just bad writing. And ultimately I will say this: I think the problem was that Bobby wasn't a very good character and he wasn't easy to write something solid for. As Soaplovers said, it is JR vs Pamela that was the thoroughline of the show. Bobby was actually secondary to it. When she left it all fell on Bobby to balance JR and there were never enough layers to that character to make it work, no matter how charismatic Duffy was. That's why almost everything that involved him but not Pamela - when she was there and after she was gone - ended up a dud - from Jenna to April to other subplots. He just wasn't that interesting and while I would not have killed him off when Duffy wanted out in the first place, he wasn't worth the damage to the credibility to the show to bring back. Whatever they paid him should have gone to a raise to VP to keep her.

Problem for me with preemptions is that people who need breaking news now have 24/7 news channels they can tune in on cable or the Internet. There is no need to preempt regular programming on regular channels for, often, not say much of value. If you are that interested in a news story that you want to watch the press conference, switch to a news channel. As for the underlying news, a banner at the bottom of the screen is good enough

I am not going to make it personal. But honestly? The only reason Tessa and Mariah are still a thing is because if they break up they are going to have to introduce another lesbian or bi character for Mariah if they want to use her. And that's a pain for lazy writers. At least here they've done "the hard part" already so they can get the benefit of featuring a lesbian couple without having to bother.

Recasting Ellie was a much bigger misstep than the misguided attempt at resurrecting a recast Jock - especially since it turned out he wasn't Jock on-screen so viewers did not know they had once wanted to go through with it.

There is some stuff for me to nitpick here: * The Wes Parmalee story was definitely a misfire but did it really matter in the scheme of things? Even in its best days, the show had its fair share of dud stories; Dallas for better or for worse wasn't a well-plotted show (much better than Dynasty, mind you). You tuned in because it had great characters. * Killing Bobby was the mistake. Boy, did Duffy f*** up there. But, yeah, the dream was... a bold choice. That I could have almost accepted if they had been coherent how they tied the loose ends. But it was a last minute bit of cleverness and they clearly hadn't thought the follow-up through. Any fan can list the long list of things that were left over from "before the dream" that it made no sense not to be addressed again if the dream season was a dream. * I personally think Kristin was a powerful character when she was on but her value would have dwindled over time and I am not upset she was written out. I do not agree she had years of stories in her although they could have kept her alive and sprung her for a surprise revenge later (typically the kind of character it would have been fun to bring back for the lead-up to a JR comeuppance finale). * I don't think Jenna was a well-written character but she provided a useful obstacle for Pam/Bobby and I was OK with that. And the minute you accept a different actress playing the same character, you have to suspend disbelief as to the inconsistencies with the earlier tale. It wasn't absurd to revisit it and it was quickly resolved so ... fine. Again, Dallas wasn't that good at plotting but the character interaction worked in the grand scheme of the Pam/Bobby story. * Lucy was useless from Day One.

I am half of mind to start a "soap plot points from the 80s-90s that wouldn't fly today" thread and yeah, that definitely would make the list.

I could be wrong but I seem to remember him saying somewhere that it was just a case of him regretting the initial story and wanting to undo it.

YOU are ready to hide? I actually like *Gizelle* so imagine what it's like for me. lol But the good thing about Potomac is that I am interested in all of them, even the ones that get on my nerves. I think Karen gets an easy ride from the fandom (her move out of Potomac *was* shady and she *was* lying) but she is a great TV character even though I would not want to have anything to do with her in real life.

I am still pretty early on of my rewatch but the first episode contained both Kelly flying out on the copper "crossing eyesight" with Joe arriving at the bus station which was both kind of COME ON and fine, symbolism, I get it. But also Perkins remembering Kelly monologuing on how she likes to touch his muscles and that was neither hot nor romantic but pretty cringe.