GLATWT88

Speaking of 1980, where was the intent behind bringing on Darcy, Alan, and Brad? Do you think they were trying to freshen things up?

Yep, Conboy and Ellen were involved. Both would only last a few more months by the time the above episode aired. Actually, Conboy walked off GL sometime in December 2003 and returned, but not for much longer. It was Marty West in the role of Shayne...what about wrestling tapes 🤔

Where? 🙏

So I was on a ratings spiral the other day and noticed an outlier week for GL in the W 18-49 rating for the week of December 29-2003 - Jan. 2, 2004. GL scored an impressive 2.1 in the demo. What makes this impressive is that the last time GL scored a 2.1 was on the week of Jan. 14 2002 - almost a whole two years earlier. Also, January 2002, would be the last time GL would score a 2.0 or higher in the demo (besides the week of 2003/4 posted below). Furthermore, GL scored mostly between the range of 1.4 - 1.7 in the demo in 2002 and 2003. The week before positing a 2.1, it scored a 1.6 in the demo, so a significant .5 gain over the previous week. I remember bits of this week and not thinking much of it. I didn't find the character of Shayne well utilized in GL and don't even know if I was ever that invested. I also can't remember caring much for Marah and Jeffrey either, but I'm also quite forgetful. I'm curious on your takes on this. Also, credit to Jason47 for the ratings info. I actually liked Harley. It wasn't until I joined this board that I heard pretty negative stuff about the character and actress. It made me wonder a bit if I was wrong.

It feels like a lot of the damage done to soaps in the 70s/early 80s came down to scheduling. Very poor decisions by execs which ultimately ended up destroying some great soaps.

Not necessarily a favorite (but might be), but the first thing that came to mind was Sami on DAYS being slapped several times in the 90s.

I wonder how much of this was aided by DAYS success around that time. DAYS saw a significant ratings jump in 95 and then spent most of 96 and 97 at the top in the 18-49 demo. Also to be noted, DAYS and AW are the only two soaps to maintain or gain in ratings from the 1994/5 season through the 1995/6 and 1996/7 season. A trend that was definitely not occurring with the other soaps which saw incredible drops. YR did go up a tenth in the 1995/6 season but then saw a significant drop the next season.

She looks incredible.

In the 80s thread, AW rated higher than DAYS the week of Jan. 28, 1980. There are also several weeks posted where AW tied or is only one tenth of ratings point below DAYS.

Edge of Night beating the entire NBC lineup and with only 81% clearance.

Thank you for sharing this. It is a true delight.

I feel like AW wasn't cancelled sooner because there was a lot of respect and care for it. AW had a terrific early run and was a ratings darling, garnering lots of fans and loyal viewers as well as those that cared for it for many years. However, by its first expansion it was starting to limp and by the second expansions' end it was in a catastrophic state. The numbers were truly awful. From the end of AW's 30 minute run (expansion to 60 minutes) to AW's retrun to 60 minutes (end of 90 minute episodes), it had lost 5 whole ratings points, going from a 9.7 to a 4.7 in a short period. Once it returned to 60 minutes, it saw a small boost which continued through the mid 80s, but by the end of the 80s it was back where it ended its 90 minute episodes. Needless to say that AW was more costly than the other soaps that were performing at the same level. With NBC never getting daytime quite right after the mid 70s, it probably felt more secure holding onto AW in its schedule than completely destroying what was left. I personally feel that AW was allowed to go on as long as it did because NBC just couldn't seem to get it right and because there was such love and care for it. TBH I feel like a lot of soaps beginning in the 90s probably went on longer than they would otherwise, because daytime execs didn't really know what to do with the changing daytime TV viewership. Loving, The City, Santa Barbara, Sunset Beach, PC were probably given more of a chance then they would have otherwise had because of this huge shift.

I think too much emphasis is put on AW transitioning to a 90 minute format as the reason for its demise, but this change was the straw that ultimately broke AW's back. Days, ATWT, GL and AW all saw a bit of decline when they transitioned to hour long programs in the mid 70s. This could be for many factors - housewives not wanting to dedicate a whole hour when they were used to half that time, viewers switching to other soaps they had previously watched that their now extended soap was cutting into, viewer fatigue, transition hiccups as this was a new way of storytelling for writers who now needed to fill a whole hour, or any other number of reasons. As I mentioned previously, GL's expansion placed it in direct competition with AW. While it's expansion in 1977 may have caused a dip in ratings, by mid 78 and onward GL was picking up and had several weeks where it finished number 1 for the week. This competition against AW would only hurt it more as GH around the same time was experiencing a massive ratings boost. GH finished the 78/79 season with a nearly 2 point increase over 77/78 season. OLTL also saw a healthy increase in the same timeframe. All of these soaps competing directly against AW. AW drops over 1 point. From 1979-81, GL, OLTL and GH are all on fire and continued to increase their numbers. Meanwhile, AW which was already struggling with stiff competition decided it was best to attempt a 90 minute program before fixing things at 60 mins. AW was in hot water before its expansion but those 90 minutes truly just destroyed it. It was confusing for viewers, it wasn't practical, and it was up against tough competition.

That's incredible! Thank you so much for your work.

It didn't help that AW was scheduled in direct competition to OLTL and GH right as the ABC lineup was blowing up in popularity. This was only worsened by GL changing its timeslot to also directly compete with AW. GL was performing well around this time. AW had the benefit of only facing direct competition from ABC (OLTL/GH) from 1973-1977 as no CBS soap was programmed against it during these years. Around this time OLTL and GH were mid-ranking soaps and not too much of a threat to AW. As GH became a cultural phenomenon and the ABC lineup rose to dominance, it may have attracted even some of the more loyal and curious AW fans over. Around the same time GL expands to an hour and is now also in direct competition with AW. GL was bringing in pretty solid numbers around this time and for a few years after. So in 1978, not only is AW going through some creative changes, it is also facing massive competition from OLTL and GH and to boot has a CBS soap programmed against it as well.

Incredible numbers for Guiding Light! The clearance for LOL is awful.

I assume networks thought it was a safer bet to expand soaps that were working instead of filling a slot with a new soap that might potentially fail. I wonder what the cost difference is for running an hour long soap vs 2 half hour soaps. I always hoped that GL would have reverted to half an hour before it got to the Peapack era. ATWT could have done the same and both could have filled an hour time slot. Same could have been done for OLTL and AMC.

In 1969, there were 19 soaps that accounted for 9.5 hours of daytime programming. In 1976, those 15 soaps still accounted for 9.5 hours of programming because several soaps increased their runtime. In fact, the 12 soaps in 1989 were probably the most soap opera programming in daytime ever (based on time) as all 3 networks had 3.5 hours of soap programming each day, a total of 10.5 hours of soap opera programming in daytime. From 1991-1999, soaps made up 10 hours of programming each day (as NBC never returned to 3.5 hrs after Generations was cancelled and ABC continued it's half hour with Loving, The City, and PC). In 2005, there were 8.5 hours of soaps each day and just 2 years earlier in 2003 there was 9 hours. We all know what ends up happening between 2007 - 2011. I think the shift in soap programming began in the 1999 with AW's cancelation and NBC opting for only two hours of programming. Then ABC getting rid of its half hour block in 2003. With Passions gone in 2007 and NBC holding on to a single hour, the other networks soon followed the trend. But it wasn't all necessarily the networks fault, viewership has continued to free fall. I honestly think storytelling sucks in daytime right now. Since COVID i have tried to get back into soaps and not a single one has enticed me to continue watching beyond a day or two. Even in the 2000s soaps had more excitement and allure. I honestly watch GH, DAYS, YR, and BB and I can't get into any of it. It's like nothing is happening and nothing about any of it reads soap. The odd thing is that many of these soaps have tried to evolve to feel less like soap operas (imo) but are telling stories that are formulaic and played out. So you lose the soap feel, and get tired storylines on top of that.

Such a great standalone episode and so well done.

GL at #2. Looked up what was happening that week and found the following summary if anyone else is curious: Holly left with Christina for Switzerland and told Ed she was getting out of his way for the sake of his and Rita’s happiness. Tim was arrested for drunk driving and later jumped on Kelly for blabbing to Sara. Elizabeth took Phillip from Justin and Jackie for Thanksgiving. Andy urged Barbara to go into the restaurant business to get over the shock of Adam and Sara’s planned wedding. Rita accused Ed of blaming her for Holly’s departure. Chet drew a sketch of Jane Marie to aid in the search for her. Ben decided to be a witness for Jennifer’s defense, but couldn’t face telling Amanda. Diane got fed up with Joe when he insisted that the tapes are missing. Alan told Rita he will surprise Hope with a Christmas vacation to their deserted island.

Incredible weeks for YR and SFT.

Yikes, NBC at the bottom. Only Days beat out Edge, and just barely on that second week. GL staying strong against massive GH.

🤣 Tracy, Martin, and Diane in full business attire at the pool. I feel like it would work if it was an outdoor beach club vibe with tables and a bar/cafe. People could be out and about or stepped away from the office, but otherwise it does look a bit silly with Martin lounging on a chair by a pool in a button down and pants.

Do we have any idea what the budget is like at GH these days? GH is currently pulling in GL Peapack numbers in terms of total viewers and less than half of the 18-49 numbers GL was pulling at the end. Obviously, 2023 is a completely different TV landscape and producing a soap in LA vs NYC has different expenses, but GH is still looking decent as far as sets and production. They also have quite a large cast. Any figures out there?

Wow, it just all seems like a blur now. Might have to revisit some of these, especially the Mothers Day episode. I caught a bit of the one titled The Law and A.C. is on some reality type show being followed by a camera on a sting operation. I'm honestly surprised they even had a police precinct set at this time. In my mind things looked more bleek, but I guess even compared to a few years earlier it probably did at the time. I may also been thinking about how bad things got in '07. My memory has gotten a bit hazy.