chrisml

I was a kid when Maureen died and I was devastated. I still remember it to this day so I never looked at GL the same way again. It killed my affection for the show.  In doing research after the suck up to JFP podcast, I found many viewers at the time expressed similar reactions. I even found an interview with Marcy Walker where she talked about being used by JFP as a big hire to save her job because the network was not happy with JFP's choices. I was always drawn to Maureen, and JFP did that a lot. She would come onto a show and rip out its emotional core and/or fire someone the viewers had a strong emotional connection to. After Maureen's death, I never watched consistently until a few months of the MArian Crane story and then the Cynthia Watros stuff. After she left, I watched off and on (mainly off) until PAS was fired. After that, I gave up on the show.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Off the top of my head: Ruth Marshall (Joan Pringle), matriarch of the African-American Marshall clan, faced terrible discrimination (threatening phone calls, obscene messages spray-painted on her walls, even a bomb scare at her housewarming party) when she bought the Whitmore mansion, which she'd been raised in as the maid, Vivian's (Lynn Hamilton), daughter.

 

 

Was this a long-term storyline or was it a quick and done story?

I came across a book that talks about soap fan culture, and they included a letter to the Soap Opera Weekly editor complaining about GL and Ann Hamilton as Mindy. The letter also proves that JFP was rewriting history when she said that she didn't know people thought killing off Maureen was a huge mistake until years later. I was a kid but I remember reading furious letters in the soap magazines about Parker's firing. 

40 minutes ago, Mitch said:

This looks great..and I have to say, Morgan's former pretty boy face has aged very well..which is not the case for most guys like that. I didn't even recognize Simms! Hayden and Seagrove havent changed.

That's funny because I recognised Simms right away, but it took me a bit to figure out who Englund and Seagrove were. I thought Seagrove was Carolyn Hennessy at first glance which confused me.

I've stopped listening to and watching these reunions because I can't take the horrible interviewers (not just Locher). It's not that difficult to allow actors to talk and ask relevant questions. I'm not even that versed on some of the soaps, and I could do a quick internet search to come up with relevant questions. 

Erika's comments about Denise's children were disgusting. She is such a nasty hypocrite. This is a woman (who along with Eileen and Rinna) who attacked LVP for asking about Eileen's affair with her husband (because of her kids). She had a meltdown about her son when Eileen made an innocent remark. Rinna went after Sutton for just the idea of Sutton causing a scene at her daughters' event. Yet Erika and Rinna think it's okay to bring up CS and hookers on camera? These women are awful human beings. Just horrendous. 

1 hour ago, KMan101 said:

 

Haven't listened to it yet. I'd love to know that too. Always bummed me out and then she showed up on AMC and was kinda wasted. 

 

She talked repeatedly about how GL was good at integrating Gilly and her family into the show, but they never followed up with why she left. There were so many times a follow-up question would have elicited some good info but they NEVER did that. It was so infuriating because I've always felt that Amelia Marshall was highly underrated and this chat could have really given her the chance to shine.

16 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Those interviewers were terrible, but Amelia is a class act.

They were the worst. They make the Locher guy look like a masterclass in hosting. They were so stuck to their questions that they never really listened to her, or allowed the convo to flow. She did all the work. A simple question: Why did you leave GL?. That q. was never asked.

1 hour ago, NothinButAttitude said:

 

Because I believe that Bravo gets more entertainment out of punishing Nene on a national platform. Trust and believe that Bravo is getting their get back. Each passing season, Nene becomes more and more unappealing to the audience. That's why Nene ain't been booking anything in Hollywood. They want nothing to do with her erratic, unstable behavior. 

That's exactly what Kenya said in the speak on it with Kandi (which was more entertaining than the entire three part reunion). It's interesting to me that Kandi's Youtube channel is much more interesting than the show most of the time.

40 minutes ago, Cheap21 said:

Nene needs to be demoted to a friend next year. I cant see any of the other housewives pulling what she did and not being reprimanded for it

Nene attacked a cameraman and was asked back. She even tried to sue Bravo and the production company by hiring Weinstein's apologist attorney. The woman is awful but I bet she'll be asked back. I have no idea why Bravo allows Nene to get away with this when the Nene-less seasons were really good.

Kandi and Kenya's talk on it was everything the show should have been. I also wonder what Tanya did that Kandi bleeped out since Kandi muted Kenya's comments since Tanya's actions were not shown on the show. They also briefly touch on Porsha and imply that Bravo protects her with the edit. A better question: Why do the editors take out the best stuff and leave us with the dull stories?

As for Dorinda, she should be fired, but Andy Cohen is out doing damage control so it won't happen. I think Tinsley and her trainer are more entertaining than anything else on the show.

14 hours ago, Capridge said:

John Conboy is underrated IMO. He respected the show's history enough to bring back characters like the Lockridges, Robert Barr and Keith (unfortunately Justin Deas didn't want to come back but Conboy did try).

I agree. Conboy had his problems (Julia's rape was a major misstep) but I think some of the problems could have been ironed it. The Dobsons and Rauch just made so many irreparable mistakes that nothing Long did would have saved the show. She certainly didn't help, but the show was too far gone. D & R really killed audience loyalty and interest.

Pamela Long was just the wrong writer for the show. SB needed a hw who could play up the show's wit and Long is too earnest for that. I felt that the SB characters lost their individuality and became flattened during her tenure (Mason and Julia were neutered beyond belief for ex.). SB's demise was certainly not Long's fault as it has been on life support for a while. I know people talk about losing Marcy Walker as the death knell, but I think it was firing Carrington Garland. You also had Justin Gocke, Roberta Bizeau, Frank Runyeon, Louise Sorel, John Callahan and Roscoe Born leaving or fired. In my mind, The Dobsons and Rauch are the ones really responsible. 

I thought the second reunion episode was boring. Kenya bringing the marching band to Marlo's event was hilarious and all the women thought so too at the time. The cookie lady thing would have been funny if Kenya had not called Tanya a C*nt. The women choosing their cookies in front of Tanya was too funny. Kenya has been attacked left and right by these women and she has never once gotten up and stormed off like a petulant child. Nene always wants to do her purchased reads, but she does not want to answer for anything. It's also telling to me that after Eva's comments about how she was beaten up, it was Kenya who immediately went to help her. Porsha and Nene just sat there stone faced. That tells me everything I need to know about them. It reminded of when Tamra had to be forced to show compassion for Gina, but she couldn't even do it. It was so fake. I don't care how the women felt about Eva. That was the time to show compassion. I get it though. It's hard to show compassion when you're drunk and a narcissist. 

1 minute ago, BetterForgotten said:

I think she would have no issues taking responsibility for Frankie’s death if she was responsible for it, like she does for Maureen’s - and Maureen was a much more significant tent pole character than Frankie ever was.
 

I never gave a sh!t about Mel or Mel/Dorian, so I can’t say I was disappointed when she blew that sh!t up to pieces. Poorly done storytelling, but the Mel character was often nonsense who tried to turn Dorian into Vikki. 

She doesn't really take responsibility for Maureen's death based on the interview. She makes a lot of excuses (some she has to know make no sense), and she still doesn't understand why people were angry. JFP is either deluded or so self-satisfied that she doesn't get it. 

I found her OLTL painful to watch because the women suddenly become oversexed idiots (Nora) and she fired Laura Bonarrigo in the most brutal of ways. OLTL became so dark and angry under JFP. 

59 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

To be fair, even under The Dobson’s, Santa Barbara always seemed to be a show that was more about the short term than long term. 

That's very true as the Dobsons were often accused of dropping stories and characters out of the blue. Did SB ever have a long-term storyline? I'm more familiar with JFP's work on SB than the Dobsons so I noticed this pattern on all of the soaps she dismantled.

It's amusing to me that no one will take responsibility for Frankie's death even 24 years later. It's always someone else who made the decision. I remember Michael Logan writing a a column at the time where everyone passed the buck.

I tried to listen to the interview, but the interviewer spent so much time telling JFP how brave and exciting she was that it was sick making. I would really like an honest JFP interview, but I don't know if we'll ever get it.

10 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

She gave her writers a lot of creative liberty at a Santa Barbara, which is what endeared it to a cult audience in the US and mass audience worldwide.

I would also say this was her big mistake as she didn't focus on long-term storylines. SB told stories the way PC would years later--in 13 week cycles. When you were between cycles, the show could be dull. If JFP had been able to bring long-term storytelling and non-Capwell stories into the show, I think SB would have lasted longer since Walker's departure was really the death knell. Instead, you'd always have a new bunch of characters you knew would probably not last more than a year. I think that 3/4 of Eden/Cruz/Robert storyline was one of the best stories they told, but it was forced on her and she and the writers just let it sputter out. Few of the SB stories told during her tenure actually had a great endings and long-lasting repercussions. Sadly, she took this way of producing a soap to every soap she subsequently worked on. 

1 minute ago, Chris B said:

I get the issues with her, particularly her damaging stint at GH, but I did love her time at Guiding Light. The writing and production was just top notch AND without their biggest stars. I get people are upset about Maureen’s death, but at least it was part of a major story. IMO that is how a death should be, with real emotional stakes. 
 

With Y&R I thought she fit in well. I love her always for making a point to bring Jess Walton back and having the writers write for her. You could tell by the time she reached Y&R she was relaxed as an EP. Yes the set changes were a bad idea, but as we now know it wasn’t her choice. 

I thought she has some good months at GL, but then the wheels came off as they always do with JFP. Maureen's death really didn't create much story after that (much the same way Cass was M.I.A shortly after Frankie's death). I always felt JFP dumbed down the GL characters (as she did with OLTL) and when I look at the 1991 episodes, it's shocking to me how much more emotionally satisfying they were compared to a lot of her work. 

Does this woman ever take responsibility for anything? She wants to take credit for the positive, but it's always someone else's fault when it is a huge mistake. I would appreciate it more if she just said "I screwed up." I have no doubt there was network interference, but she made the same type of mistakes on every show.  

These scenes also make me angry that they never developed Maureen's relationship with Roger. There was so much rich material there. I'd forgotten how good Sherry Stringfield and Kimberley Simms were. Why did they get rid of Robert Calhoun? His stories were so layered and complicated minus the MAllet/mob stuff.

I might be misremembering, but I thought McKinsey did submit herself at one point during the end of her tenure. There was a big brouhaha about her not being nominated. 

3 hours ago, Cat said:

Andy better share those texts with the audience!

 

And I know everyone is ready for Nene to leave the show (I admit I am a little Nene-ed out after all the goose-honking this season), but her railroading Eva in that clip was ok by me.

 

I do agree with @chrisml regarding Porsha. Those rape allegations she threw at Kandi (and got off scot-free after Phaedra took the fall) have always prevented me from embracing her completely. Even though I recognise she has improved her image leaps and bounds in recent years and is genuinely funny. If she is stepping back into old habits of accusing people of complete BS  . By the same token, if Kenya did talk about Cynthia behind her back, I want to hear about it.

Considering Nene has been doing damage control and going into therapy because of the reunion, I'm assuming the Nene/Eva clip is a red herring. Nene needs to go. She brings such a sour taste to this show, and using Harvey Weinstein's apologist to threaten Bravo and her castmates? Goodbye, Vicki Leakes.

Porsha is such a fraud. She can't forgive Eva for that minor baby comment, but Kandi is supposed to forgive her for the rape and drug allegations? Porsha and Phaedra are just lucky it was Kandi because Kenya would have had them arrested. Rumours are that Cynthia and Eva are going. I hope Cynthia stays. I know some people think she's boring, but I think you need Switzerland (with occasional Germanic tendencies) to make a cohesive group. Eva and Nene can go. If I had my way, Porsha would be going too, but I know that's not happening.

I still can't believe it's been 21 years. Doesn't seem possible AW that is not still on the air. 

3 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Jessica Collins complained to her about the outcome of that story (and the message it sent out) and they changed it.

 

But it won Jessica an Emmy, so...

That's the thing. JFP and her HWs were good at creating meaty material even if the storylines sacrificed common sense and character development in the process (Avery's rape, Felicia/John/Sharlene, Maureen's death, etc.). I don't know what happened in the fall of 1992 where JFP felt she had to make changes to GL, but I think the show would have had a great year if she had continued GL the way it was playing out in 1992. The blackout episodes should have given the show material for 12 to 18 months of story. I was a child back then so I don't know what was happening BTS but it's so disappointing.

Lillian was blamed because the other woman usually gets the hate rather than the cheating husband. Ridiculous, but usually the case. My problem with JFP is that she has the same style and focus on every show she's been on. Her shows are always extremely sexist and the women always become oversexed idiots when she takes over (still can't get over how OLTL's Nora became an idiot overnight). I think GL was one of the few times that JFP could have done a fantastic job because summer to winter 1992 was first rate, but that's her biggest problem. She can never sustain momentum for very long. She is terrible at long-term storytelling. Maureen turning to Roger because of Ed's affair would have been so much more interesting than her death. JFP never learned. Didn't she have to rewrite YR's Avery lying about rape because of the outcry? Boggles the mind.

6 hours ago, Taoboi said:

There's a video on YT that I listened to due to someone on Twitter mentioning it from a former producer on RHOA and it was enlightening and made me kinda feel a little bad for Nene. 

You must have missed the part of what I said that Bravo is going after them by having them for the most part doing themselves in. With Teresa and Nene, they are simply taking the long approach. Teresa being the best example. She IS the star. The only way they can do that with her is to push. They need a star with a dynamic to overshadow her. And Marge seems the obvious choice on that. Especially given that there was some tea that one of the producer was giving Marge a good edit. Of course, to be overshadow, the audience has to turn on Teresa too thus the reveal of her behind the hair pulling. 

I don't think that would ever work because Teresa fans would let her get away with murder. I don't think any of the other women hold a candle to Teresa in terms of audience engagement. I don't think Margaret/Teresa is a copy of Kelly/Vicki. The producers might try to push her out, but the rhonj viewers would never buy it. It's like the Porsha fans who ignore the rape allegations, the homophobia, the fake first marriage, the idiot comments, etc. If Teresa had perpetrated a cancer scam or attacked production, I don't think her fans would care. I'm not a Teresa fan so I might be wrong, but that's the way it feels to me.