chrisml

The storytelling did Generations in. The cast was strong, but as I wrote previously in the thread, the days spent around the fruitcake showed just how much the writing needed overhauled. 

This is all from memory, but I believe that Born sent a song to Rauch where he basically told him off. Roberta Bizeau was fired and Flame's storyline quickly wrapped up as a result. It was probably more involved but that's what I remember.

I think you can continue what works, but also fix what doesn't (the lack of non-Capwell stories and characters). I think the writers and producers had other storylines and characters, but they always went back to the Eden and Cruz storylines. I always hated that the Laura/Michael/Ethan storyline was truncated (currently rewatching SB from that time) and not given enough attention. Poor Michael never got much to do after that until they started to put him with Flame but then that abruptly ended. The show was constantly bringing on new characters and families, but the execs never followed through. You had the attempt to beef up Gina's family with her mother, brother and Bunny, but that didn't go anywhere substantial although Mack lasted longer than most non-Capwell characters. Of all the shows, I think SB was the easiest to fix but the Dobsons, Rauch and Long chose to make the show the easiest to cancel. 

21 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Agreed! Why "fix" something that isn't broken?

IT seems to be what every new EP does when they take on a soap job. They ruin what works and continue what doesn't work. Conboy's tenures had its problems, but a lot of it could be righted rather quickly. It's interesting to me that the Dobsons kept writing for Flame until she was fired because of the Rauch/Born thing.

I just find it all depressing--the number of soaps on the air and how the ratings were compared to the crumbs they get today. I'm in such a nostalgic mood for the soaps lately. 

3 hours ago, SamandWillowFan said:

I watched the scenes where Annie is in the hospital after getting a hysterectomy, and I thought it was really gross of Reva to basically gloat after Annie had lost everything, including her ability to ever have children. I know Reva was the heroine of the show, but I haven’t really liked her in the scenes I’ve seen. 

That particular storyline bit was so icky because it basically said the worst thing that can happen to a woman is not to be able to have children. It was such a sexist punishment for Annie. Watros sold all of it, but it still was icky.

45 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

I think they were on the verge of SORASing Brandon when the show was cancelled. He had been sent off to school out of town a couple of months before the series finale. Agreed that the show never quite seemed to find the right balance in the Santana/Brandon parent/child dynamic.

They should have just kept Gocke in the role because he had such a good rapport with Mattson, and Brandon grounded Gina. IF I recall, the Dobsons had Gina wanting to have her own child and that's why they had to get rid of Gocke. I'm never for network suits interfering but I really wish they had forced the Dobsons to respect the previous years of the show. 

59 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

It was the most pointless firing in my history of soap watching. Even sadder was that CG never landed another soap, despite auditioning for several.

The Dobsons so many idiotic mistakes during their second tenure. They also fired Justin Gocke.

The Dobsons were their own worst enemies when they returned. They should have at least been brought up to speed on the stories, but instead, they tried to undo what had happened in their absence. The show was not boring as they could create first rate individual episodes but so much of their stuff was an insult to the fans who had watched while they were gone. Sexual fantasies about your sister's rapist??? I totally get their frustration and anger, but they should have thought of the viewers. They basically gave a middle finger to the viewers who kept the show on the air long enough for them to return. Were they writing the show when Flame and Michael got together? If so, that's the only one of their stories I liked. That story was too brief because of Born's fight with Rauch.

Carmen Duncan is the only Iris I know so she is Iris to me. Duncan's work during The Chief/Mac's Death storylines was Emmy worthy. She was magnificent. When I see Beverlee McKinsey as Iris, she comes across as over the top because I'm used to Duncan. 

On 10/19/2019 at 3:13 PM, Soaplovers said:

 

I always thought it a shame she and Lemay couldn't work well together because I think she could have helped him adjust to late 80s daytime.. and he could have helped her with connecting the dots idea wise.  I do think Lorna/Felicia being mother/daughter was great idea (though I sometimes wonder if Lisa Grady was meant to be her long lost daughter, but the actress quitting made the show abandon that idea).

I think there was some discussion about Lisa being Felicia's daughter. Didn't Felicia stick up for Lisa when Vicky was causing problems? I always had the sense that they were gearing up for that storyline, but it got shelved when the Lisa character became less vital once Anne Heche took over as Vicky. I don't remember how Lisa left, but I assume Joanna Going could see the writing on the wall, and that's why she left.

The Sonny stuff was with Lane Davies. If my memory serves, Lester's Mason spent his time before the Dobsons' return dealing with Sasha and her subsequent murder. 

The Red Swan was an absolute mess. It highlighted the problem with Swajeski's writing. She had great starts to her stories, but she never knew where to go with them. The RS just fizzled out. Swajeski was the type of writer where the individual episodes would be great, but they would never build on each other. She also had this odd thing about having a cliffhanger on Friday and not resolving until Tuesday or Wednesday. She needed someone with good storytelling/plotting skills to keep her on target.

Anne Heche was so good at playing Marley and Vicky that you could tune in halfway through an episode and know that Vicky was pretending to be Marley. That's how good she was. Jensen Buchanan was just awful in both roles. I know she has her fans, but I'm not one of them.

Getting back to GL: Who are some of the characters you think were underappreciated by the writers and/or producers--characters who should have stayed around longer or been given meatier storylines.

5 minutes ago, j swift said:

I would proffer that the Dash/Julia/Augusta story was even more offensive that Eden's rape.  Not that there should be a competition, but the Dash stuff is particularly tone deaf in retrospect.

I agree with you there, but that storyline seems in keeping with daytime's obsession with turning rapists into anti-hero love interests. Although, the Dash storyline went overboard even for that. The Dash stuff was so unnecessary because Gibbs and Grahn had real chemistry. Why ruin it? It was so odd to me. I will never understand SB's obsession with rape storylines. While I'm glad Marcy Walker got her emmy, I could have done without the rape storyline. The identity of the rapist made it even more icky (being vague for those who may be watching the story on yt). Was there one female character on SB who was not raped?

These two are the options? Wheeler or Phelps? Is there a none of the above option?JFP did much more damage to daytime than Wheeler did. She ruined four shows I watched before her tenure (had given up on YR by the time she got her grubby hands on it). I know people get up in arms about the Peapack stuff, but if the story had been there, I think viewers would have gone with it to save their show. I think Goutman was worse than Wheeler (as his tenure went on) but that's hardly praise.

I think keeping Todd on the show really harmed OLTL. I could never get fully interested in the show because they kept on the serial rapist who had participated in such a vicious attack. It cheapened the whole story and then Carlivati cheapened it even more with the reraping of Marty. 

I heard a recent-ish interview with Sharon Gabet where she complained about the same thing--Brittany's personality and motives changed episode to episode. She never knew who she was meant to be playing.

Such a shame that Shout Factory appear to not be releasing any more parts of the show. IS the show available anywhere else--on one of the classic t.v. channels?

2 minutes ago, Donna B said:

Bwa Ha Ha Ha Ha

And, I mean they transported her from the studio to her house by helicopter. By helicopter! And, she didn't even work 5 days a week! NO. She worked 4!

That is insane--all that money spent for nothing. They should have just had Kim Rhodes play Victoria and Cindy. Rhodes would have been great as Vicky.

2 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Oh, hell, a Chia Pet could have blown Jensen Buchanan off the screen.

Very true. Thanks for the laugh.  I never got her appeal on AW. 

Ellen Wheeler was a terrible producer, but she was phenomenal as MArley/Victoria. When she returned towards the end of AW, she blew JEnsen Buchanan off the screen. 

5 hours ago, Dan said:

Has to be GL. Khan is right. Just checked the Ratings archive for 2003-2004. There was no major hemorrhage of viewers during that time but it came nowhere near the 1997 peaks where I believe the show added like a million viewers and was saved from cancelation. Nowhere near where the ratings had to be for PGP to be satisfied with paying additional budget for Conboy's pet projects. 

Thank you for this. I'm glad I remembered correctly. I thought it was Nipplegate that doomed him; quite ironic considering what the new head of CBS (Moonves) was doing behind the scenes. I think Conboy would have been great for GL if he had been paired with a headwriter who honoured the history of the show. During his tenure, you would have individual episodes that were fantastic, but the short-term/long-term stories just didn't work. However, I'd take his tenure over Wheeler's pre-Peapack days.

Was Conboy's tenure good for the ratings? If memory serves, he was fired more for wanting male nudity on the show (after the Jackson nipplegate fiasco) than the ratings. My memory can be playing tricks.