chrisml

On a reality show, you're expected to forgive and move on when another housewife does something to you. I find that so bizarre as that's not the way life works. I'm all for Candaice not getting over it because that's real. However, I don't like milking it and seeing it as an opportunity and I'm someone who clearly thought Monique was in the wrong. I think the other women are being disingenuous, but Candaice is not making herself look good. She reminds me of Kim Richards when Rinna attacked. KR could have had the moral high ground but she was such a ghastly liar that she allowed a crying Rinna to get the sympathy. Candaice should take notes. I will say this: my belief is that you never really have to go after another HW because they always bring about their own downfall. I'm thinking of Kelly Dodd, Jill, Kim, Nene, Phaedra (rewatching some of ATL and she was awful. How was she liked?), etc. 

I don't know how to embed videos, but is this the Leeann Locken from RHOD at 13:19? Like Garcelle, Leeann appears to have started her career on Star Search:

Leeann Locken on Star Search?

re: Oc Ratings

I don't know if it was getting rid of Tamra and Vicki so much as the trailer being so dull. IF the trailer had been exciting, I think there would have been a stronger need to watch the show. The trailer was dud so it gave people a reason to tune out.  Granted, what could they possibly have done in the short time they had to film? The trips on OC were often the best parts of the show, and what are they going to do this season? A toilet paper run? When you couple that with Kelly's off screen shenanigans, I think people looked for excuses not to watch so many of the people who wanted Tamra and Vicki gone now backtracked. I was glad to see Vicki go, but I would have gotten rid of Shannon instead of Tamra. 

Wow. The ratings were extremely low for RHOC. I saw some of the Braunwyn stuff which looks compelling and engrossing. IT shows what the show can capable of providing, but I still don't want to give my time to this show. I don't have the energy or the interest to watch MAGA housewives when so many people are scared out of their minds with worry. 

The fans really irk me. They were all about getting rid of Tamra and Vicki after last season, but now they want them back. This is why Bravo never listens to fans, and it's why they refuse to make any significant changes to RHOBH. I don't think the ratings were down because of Vicki being gone since Vicki was sidelined last season. They were down because people were turned off by Kelly's mouth and racist attitudes, and many of us don't want to support MAGA people right now. Kelly is a prime example of letting your enemy hang herself--a lesson Monique should take to heart. I was in favor of Kelly last season, but her behavior during COVID and her MAGA racist stuff turned me right off. I don't want to waste my time watching a HW romance someone from FoxNews. As much as I think Emily is underrated, a big part of me would not feel comfortable watching her right now because I know she'd vote for someone who supports taking every possible right away from me.

Who knew Braunwyn would be getting the love this season while the fans turn on other housewives? 

While Vicki is probably not wrong (Although I do think Emily has a lot of potential), it's hard to take Vicki seriously when she was a disaster last year, and her reunion appearance was horrific. She got herself fired, and she's the biggest hypocrite when it comes to Braunwyn. A modern marriage versus participating in a cancer scam? I know which one I would prefer. If anyone has the right to attack the show, it's Tamra who kept the show going the last few years with her pot stirring. 

In regards to RHOP, was this originally a different show? The first season premiere seemed so different, and Karen was an absolute mess with all her etiquette talk and having a hissy about Gizelle being in the middle of the booth. I'm so not a Karen fan. I think she's just as fake as people attack Gizelle for being. Speaking of Gizelle, do you think she brought Jamal on this show to humiliate him? If it was for a fake storyline, she is smart enough to know her father and her daughters were not going to play along, and she has known for a while that her father badmouthed Jamal. I can't shake the feeling the Gizelle/Jamal story was fake, but it was fake to get her revenge on him. It also makes her look like a victim when his nonsense comes to light.

Leah is fine, but she's not why I tune in. I prefer Tinsley but that princess cruise has sailed. I tune in for Luann at this point. Sonja and Ramona I can do without (as we've seen lately, Sonja is one way on camera and one way off), but I think Luann is so three dimensional and has given so much to the show in the way of storyline and her personal life. The others have guarded themselves in various ways. Luann would never have pulled a Ramona "Shut it down" at the reunion when asked about anything. She may not have always been upfront, but she at least never kept certain things off camera like Bethenny, Dorinda, Ramona, and Sonja did.

JAmal Bryant is a disgusting human being in so many ways. I'm not surprised about the gay marriage thing. I hope Gizelle would speak out against this as Porsha did about her preaching against gay men. If Gizelle wants to keep her job, I'm sure she'll give lip service to gay rights the way Porsha did when her controversy broke out.

4 minutes ago, Cat said:

 

I can see that standing your ground regarding Monique means a lot to you. Respectfully, I would argue that some of the opinions expressed on here about the fight have been more nuanced. Like @Antoyne, I believe they are both at fault of riling each other up and totally acknowledge that Monique should not have gotten physical.

 

I appreciate you and @Taoboi responding in kind. I think it's important to have discussions like this in a positive way even when we disagree. I think why the fight bothers me so much is the unspoken idea that a mouthy woman deserves to get popped. That to me is what is behind a lot of the pro-Monique tweets/comments I've seen. I'm not suggesting all obviously, but this whole "she deserved to get her butt whupped" or "Where I come from, we'd have knocked her teeth in" is disgusting. I'm sure if the people who say these things would have to acknowledge what this really means and what it supports, they might not say it in that way, but they still said those things. I'm unnerved by that kind of thinking.

I also think you pinpointed why I blame Monique. She has a lot of rage, and it's not just at Candaice. IT's at so many people and you can see even in her scenes with Chris that she has a lot of anger. I don't think anything Candaice said/did had anything to do with that fight. Monique came in there hot, and she wanted to fight. Did Candaice make it better? No, but in the past few episodes, Candaice had done everything she should have done. She even handled the Ashley situation with discretion and tact. She apologized to Monique repeatedly even about stuff that she shouldn't have apologized for. Do I like Candaice? Eh. As a gay man, she's not one of my faves. I'm suspicious of her. I think what also makes me suspicious of Monique is that she lied about the fight, lied about the blogs, and she continues to misrepresent things. IF you're not going to be honest about why you attacked someone (the rumor), I don't care about you. We all know she planted the stories. You wrote something that is very true. Candaice and Monique are very much alike.

I will say that I think Chris is one of the better housewife husbands, but I don't feel much affection between Chris and Monique. 

I do think people are making light of what Monique did. I've read endless "I hope she got Candaice good," "Candaice deserved a whipping," "Keep it up Monique! Punch Gizelle!" I found that mindset deeply troubling. I think some people are excusing Monique because of who she attacked. If it had been Karen, would people be so quick to excuse her actions?? I know I'm in a losing battle with this point since most of the people on this board are pro-Monique, but I think what Monique did was horrible. When you are so angry that you black out, have to be restrained, and then run off to kill someone, you need serious help. In real life, I would never feel safe around someone like that. KAren and Ashley were always going to side with Monique and Gizelle and Robin were going to side against Monique. I don't see why one standpoint is more troubling than the other.

I'm not a Candaice fan, so this isn't about her at all. I look sideways at her since the tweets, but if Denise could keep her cool and not punch anyone in the coven, Monique could restrain herself. Am I wrong, or wasn't Monique in a drunk driving incident and it was reported that she had lied about it? Or was it another Potomac housewife? Now we know Monique lied about giving the information to the blogs. I also think anything Monique brings to the reunion about JAmal is going to be redundant. We all know he's scum. Nothing could be as devastating as what Gizelle's father said. 

If Gizelle, Wendy and Robyn had their minds up, can't we say the same about Ashley and Karen? I thought Robyn and Wendy made excellent points. Blacking out, having to be restrained in a stairwell, and then running to attack the person??? That is some serious stuff, and as I've said, I find it frightening that so many people think it's perfectly acceptable. I was not here for Rinna throwing the glass and trying to strangle Kim (and I can't stand Kim) and I'm not here for Monique until she goes through anger management. 

Tamra must be cackling to herself every day. Kelly is a prime example of why you don't need to raise your hands to someone. In most cases, these housewives ALWAYS reveal themselves. They always stumble when they think they are the HBIC. They always go one step too far, and then the truth comes out.

I agree with everyone about one thing: The RHOP episode was fantastic. IT was probably the best single HW ep. I've seen in a long time. It's second season of RHOBH quality.  I don't agree with everyone about anything else. The fact that Monique blacked out is scary, and that she still doesn't really take accountability is troubling to me. I'm sorry. I'm not of the "beat her ass" school when someone acts like a spoiled brat in front of someone. Are we now going to need a referee for the shows? IS it now going to be okay to punch a fellow housewife when they get "mouthy?" I find that such a scary attitude especially where we are at in the world. The world has gone mad, and I don't want to see housewives duking it out.

As the show clearly laid out, Candaice had been trying to deal with Monique in a straightforward way, but Monique was the one causing problems and looking for a fight. I'm sure it had more to do with off-camera stuff because I could not understand Monique's hostility. I also find Monique's running after her to be beyond the pale. I'm not a Candaice fan especially after her homophobic comments were revealed, but Monique needs serious therapy.. 

I'm not a Karen fan, but I thought she was fine. I thought Wendy made the most sense, and she was talking sense that Monique just didn't want to listen to. However, I will take Gizelle over KAren any day. She makes this show: bringing the bodyguard, the notes, connecting Monique's past (so she can help editors), walking off, etc. Gizelle is truly the star of the show. She's what Kyle aspires to be, but will never be.

4 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Cynthia is beautiful...no wonder she was a successful working model.  And some say she's boring..but I think she adds an element surely needed.  A counter balance to the OTT housewives.

I think some viewers and Bravo tend to think that housewives like Cynthia are boring, but I think they're the foundation for what makes a good reality show. You need the housewives who are willing to share their lives and that aren't always trying to be colorful or out of control for the paycheck. Speaking of: I have been watching past RHOA clips, and I have no clue why Phaedra was so popular. She was such a fake and a liar. IT was so obvious, but people ate it up. I don't get it. I do get why Apollo was popular. Yum.

Braunwyn comes under attack for supporting Black Lives Matter and COVID safety? Who at Bravo thinks that this is going to go over well with a majority of the viewers???? 

Did anyone else catch Nene on Tamron Hall? Talk about fake tears. Nene was an absolute mess and Tamra was trying to help her, but wow, it was bad. 

Potomac is truly the best RH show right now. I know everyone was waiting for the fight, but I think the hot mic moment was more shocking and more interesting. I don't want to see women physically fighting. 

I'm another one who thinks Peggy was unfairly axed. I thought it was great how she stood up to Shannon. I've never liked Shannon and Lydia/Peggy coming for her was great. I felt the season took a nosedive around the trip because it felt oddly edited as if they we were leaving out the context of so many of the scenes. We now know the editors and Bravo were protecting Kelly so I'm wondering if there was more ISIS type comments made and that's why the editing was so choppy. Compare the Ireland trip to Iceland and the editing is vastly different. I'm not Lydia fan, but she got to Shannon so it was fun to watch. Like Carlton/Joyce in season four of RHOBH, Peggy and Lydia were blamed for the show's problems when it was the other women. 

I'm not in the mood for MAGA housewives. The new housewife and her "we need to respect all opinions" b.s. already has me checked out. Racism is not like debating the difference between rocky road and mint chocolate chop ice cream. While I do like Emily and I think she was a hidden gem of the last season, I don't want political talk of the MAGA kind on a hw show. I don't think it was Vicki being phased out/fired that ruined the show. I don't think the show ever recovered from the Detective MEghan finds out Brooks doesn't have cancer season. Vicki and Brooks were so disgusting that it cast a pall over future seasons. Since Vicki was never honest, there was no way she could ever really come back to be the main focus she used to be. I know a lot of people wanted Tamara gone, but I still feel it should have been Shannon. She was horrific the last few years. She only looks in comparison to her ex and Vicki. Tamara (for all of her faults) knew how to play the game, but she overplayed her hand at a time when Bravo was looking to cut costs. I think they'll regret it.

1 hour ago, Cat said:

 

I know Nene is a hypocrite, but I also think she has been poorly treated by Bravo sometimes.

It is obvious they've been trying to get her out for a couple of seasons. She has been super-ill-tempered with production for years. She wanted Carlos King gone, but Bravo replaced him with a production team that did Nene no favors.

 

And Kenya better keep watching her back because Bravo may turn on her too one day. I'm not sure Andy adores her like he does some others.

Most if not all of this is Nene's doing. I don't feel sorry for her. Her performance at last year's reunion was atrocious. That right here should have meant the end for her. Vicki's chances were certainly killed by the lawsuit and her horrific reunion behavior. Did Nene think she would be different after threatening lawsuits and calling AC a racist? Nene had more chances than most housewives get. I think Porsha is partly responsible for this. As she became more popular (although why that is baffles me), there was really no need for Nene. I'm sure Nene was furious Porsha got the new chat show she's on. Why would Bravo put up with NEne's shenanigans if they have Porsha? They're over Nene. It is telling to me that even scummy rapist apologist Lisa Bloom didn't take on Nene's case.

I would agree with Nene in theory, but then I remember all the s*it talk she has done about all of her RHOA castmates. She loved going on Andy's show and doing the same thing Wendy did. Now that it's directed at her, she hates it. She's not the only one they do that to. Andy always has someone on to discredit/attack LVP since she left. She was mourning her mother's death and Eileen Davidson and Andy were shading her. It was gross. 

 If Monique can't handle being verbally provoked, she shouldn't be on a Housewives show. That's what these shows are. If Denise and Tinsley can withstand all the abuse they got without getting physical, Monique could suck up Candaice's childish nonsense. I'm truly disturbed by how people are excusing Monique's actions. It feels like people are making excuses for Monique because they like her better. 

OF course, the women of Potomac will be held to a higher stander than the white housewives. How many times have I heard a white HW say that they would not want to be on RHOA because the women are too scary/aggressive? They don't say that about the other shows. They don't say it about Lisa Rinna who tried to strangle someone and three a wine glass. Do they say that about RHONJ? Not sure. We all know that black women will be viewed as angry and violent. With that said, I agree Monique was out of control. Candaice did nothing the other women haven't done. They all talk trash. Who cares?!? IT was so childish. Monique had been taunting Candaice for a while. I'm sure predictable KAren will somehow make this about Gizelle.

Why Is NEne mad at Andy? He looked embarrassed by Wendy William's comments. Nene should be mad at WW who threw her under the bus and drove over her body to make sure she was dead. But NEne doesn't know when to stop. Using Breonna Taylor? She never knows when to quit.

Monique was definitely out of control. IT's disturbing how so many of her stans support the violence. I'm not a Candaice fan, but come on. When a producer has to sequester you, and you still have to run after someone, enough is enough. 

The other disturbing part was Gizelle's father.Wow. That ending. And the poor girls who look so uncomfortable and obviously don't trust their dad. Yeesh.

I actually would want to watch the JAclyn Smith interview and I'd like to see Tamra Tunie. It would be nice if Alan did more research. I still wince at his mistakes when interviewing Sharon Gabet about her Edge of Night days. I wasn't even alive when Edge of Night was on, but I could do a five minute google search to get the necessary information.I would even be okay with asking a "For those unfamiliar with Edge of Night, could you tell us about your character?" type question. There have been some really strong moments (The Ellen Parker/GL one comes to mind) that I'm willing to cut him a little slack. He's minimally better than the podcasters who have prepared questions and NEVER listen to the interviewee. 

Karen is on a Housewives show. Does she think she's above all the drama? She would not have a job if there were not drama or conflict. She certainly knows this because she always acts out at the reunion to make sure gets invited back. I would have been laughing too because it was the most ridiculous argument and Wendy's reactions were hilarious. I can't believe this is what led to the big moment. 

I hope Daily Mail is right, and that Erika is right behind her, but it's 2020 so yeah...

Nene used Kim as a friend or a punching bag depending on which suited her at the moment. I don't feel sorry that Kim (a person I have no interest in) got a spinoff and Nene didn't. Everything that has happened to Nene is her own doing. She has spent years trying to get other women fired. She spent this year going off the rails. She pulled a Vicki, but it was off-camera antics this time. She alienated so many people that it gave Bravo the chance to fire her. Kandi and Kenya's speak on it said everything about the show and Nene. They get it; Nene does not. I also knew there would be no lawsuit because it would destroy her career and it would never have worked. Nene has supplied them with too much evidence to support any position they would have had. Her "sisterhood" comments are ridiculous considering she hired the horrific Lisa Bloom. With that said, I'd love to see Nene on RHOBH because the coven would never be able to handle her.

RHONY:I can't stand Sonja any longer. She is so full of herself and so mean-spirited. I know people find her amusing, but I find her intolerable. She only looks good in comparison to Dorinda and Ramona. Sonja's jealousy of Tinsley is also so apparent. Tinsley wiped the floor with Dorinda (with an assist from Cohen) and it was thrilling to see someone finally put her in her place.  I thought Luann came out the best of the core cast. I find Luann so compelling, and it's telling that she's the only housewife who got a full interview special about her life.

RHOBH: Didn't watch last two episodes, but I did see a few clips. Andy needs to go. He needs his grubby hands off of RHOBH. When Rinna started to deflect after Denise threatened to show the texts, he should have held Rinna's feet to the fire. Instead, he let her deflect which is telling considering how he went after the Dorindanator for her deflections. Denise sure shut Rinna up though. It was glorious to see.

I don't blame Leah. They have been building her as the new star of the show. Even at the reunion, Andy made a point to saw how LEah was so well liked by viewers and celebs. Why wouldn't she think she's worth more money? It's their own damn fault for pumping her up so much.

I also remember KAndi and Kenya in the speak on it talking about how Porsha admitted to lying and had said some things on camera while she was drunk. This was during the last season, and the editors didn't put it on the show. Of course, Porsha is now coming for Kenya because she feels safe in knowing Bravo will give her a positive edit. We all saw that Tanya had lied about the cookie lady and the editors had shaped the scene and the build-up to make it look like poor Tanya was so clueless and betrayed. 

When Bethenny 2.0 returned, they were constantly giving Heather a bad edit so that Heather talking about losing a nanny who had been with her hearing-impaired son for years became out of touch Heather complaining about having to take care of her son.

I suppose the editing doesn't work so much on me most of the time since I tend to dislike the people they protect (the coven, Bethenny, Teresa, Dorinda, Porsha, Stassi, etc.). The Tinsley stuff does make me dislike Sonja because she was so hateful to her, and she was there to witness what happened. She knew what was going on, and she also said nothing. She was still defending Dorinda even while Ramona and Luann knew the gig was up.

Ever since the VPR editor admitted Bravo dictates good/bad edits, we've been seeing more and more how Bravo will craft a dishonest narrative when it suits them. I think of the John/Dorinda/Tinsley/Scott stuff. Sonja brought up John playing game during the Tipsy Girl fiasco and it was quickly squashed. When the stuff with Dorinda and Tinsley went down, not one of the other housewives said anything. Bethenny "self-proclaimed truth teller" Frankel said nothing. You could tell when Tinsley started talking that Dorinda was scared. A better question: Why protect a housewife you think would physically harm a castmate? Why did it take a year to put Dorinda in her place? Was it just because Andy was offended by the "turkey baster" comment???? Did they really allow Tinsley to be systematically attacked just to keep Dorinda? That's despicable.