chrisml

6 hours ago, Marissa Gallant said:

Not sure if this counts, but Don Craig went to mail his taxes and disappeared forever. I think several soaps dropped stories that didn't work, but most of them took more time with wll stories. SB stories were often FAST. And if you missed an episode, a story might be done forever and never referred to again. There was also a total disregard for established history. In such a short show, that was difficult. 

I definitely feel that this created a long term problem. From the beginning, the network had it's hands in it aaying We don't like this. We don't like that. Lower costs. Lower costs. Lower costs. It felt like as soon as the show found its groove, someone else decided it needed a change. I was a die hard fan at the beginning but the complete destruction of history chased me away. It wasn't my fun quippy show anymore. Toss in the fact that the Lockridges were gone, and so was I. I'm enjoying reliving it, but I'm still dragging myself through 88 and its so very difficult to keep going.

It's true that shows often dropped characters or stories. Perhaps, it's not as obvious with other soaps because they had long-term characters or storylines going on as well.  SB was only on for nearly nine years, and the constant storylines changes seemed to happen all the time. I've lost count of the number of characters who come on strong, and then disappear or just fizzle out (Sandra the psychic is another big example). I think you're right that it was the constant interference. It's sad to me watching the show now because there was so much potential, but as you point out, the show would find the groove and then big changes would happen.

Has there been another soap with so many shifts in storylines and lack of long-term story? I've been watching the show, and it feels like every two/three months that storylines end or fizzle out and then the show starts from scratch. Certain characters stay, but there is always a turnover in cast. The show's writers & producers are unable to sustain anything for more than three months. I am thinking (as an example) of the Laura/Michael storyline. It was a major storyline for weeks and then it just sputtered to an ending of sorts. It feels like SB is full of those sorts of thing. I thought it might have been intentional at first, but it really plays like the writers and execs have no idea where they are going from month to month with the storylines. 

I'm probably in the minority but I liked DePriest's first tenure. Was it perfect? No, but I find it immensely watchable despite all the missteps (and there were definitely missteps.) MY biggest gripe: getting rid of Petronia Paley's Quinn which I think was a major blow to the show. I also wonder how many of the problems were network or exec related: for example, the Dawn storyline. I remember reading that the execs got cold feet and wanted it to end. I also remember that Hank Cheyne's Scott was meant to be Donna's son at one point, but that never panned out. I think Anna Stuart leaving ended that storyline. 

I really liked a lot of Swajeski's storylines, but a lot of them didn't always pan out. The Red Swan storyline for instance. It never went anywhere interesting. The Chief storyline was fantastic, and should have earned Carmen Duncan an emmy, but that story was ended abruptly because of Watson's death. 

I also liked Taylor's reign of terror which I think could have gone on longer. Once Swajeski leaves, the quality ebbs and flows in annoying ways sometimes. 

I'm not surprised Sharon Gabet was disenchanted with her time on AW. The writers never seemed to know who Brittany was. She changed personalities constantly. I can't say I was bored, but I never knew what was going on with the character. 

JFP treated Laura Bonarrigo the way she did Ellen Parker on GL and Alice Barrett on AW. JFP had such a sexist streak to her, and she had no tolerance for female characters who were beloved by fans and often the moral center of a storyline or show. The female characters became so idiotic during JFP's reign. Their IQ points dropped severely. I'm always surprised that later producers did not bring back LB.

I know this may be an impossible question to answer, but why was SB unable to develop lasting characters outside of characters related to the Capwells? It felt as if the writers/producers would bring in characters for three months and then lose interest. I would blame the constant change in writers, but even during a specific regime's tenure, the same thing would happen. I'm thinking specifically of Lenore Kasdorf's Caroline and Christopher Norris's Laura. 

The Flame/Michael pairing was successful though but it never got off the ground because of her firing.  Wasn't it Rauch who fired her though? He also fired Louise Sorel because of their previous relationship. 

Just now, watson71 said:

Tom Wiggin played Gil Fenton.  He was introduced as Felicia's chauffeur and debuted on the same episode as Linda Dano's Felicia.  He was involved with Felicia for awhile, then dated Julia Shearer.  He worked for Frame Construction and disappeared from the show sometime in 1984.

Thank you for the info. I figured it had to be something like this since I had never read anything about him being on the show. It's amazing to me how much talent AW squandered in the eighties. 

I caught a Match Game-Hollywood Squares Hour playlist on youtube, and I see they have a lot of AW actors: David Oliver, Mary Page Keller, Kim Morgan Greene, Rick Porter, etc. I was aware of their characters even if I hadn't seen them. However, Tom Wiggin was introduced as being from Another World. I had no idea he was on the show. Did he play an important character or was he one of those 80's AW characters who drift in and drift right back out?

I think JFP confuses "high stakes" with murder and rape. The reason the blackout on GL worked so well is that it was high drama. I think of the Robert/Eden/Cruz story and it was a high stakes drama that worked on an emotional level. They killed off a character who wasn't a long-term character. R/E/C prompted months of story and it worked because people cared. There didn't need to be a murder or a woman beaten up, raped, and/or murdered. She didn't and doesn't realize that soap stories need heart; they can't be simply about stunts. The stunts might temporarily raise ratings, but the longterm effects are usually detrimental to the show. 

3 hours ago, Antoyne said:

Your point literally has nothing to do with Candiace picking and choosing when she’s traumatized by the fight. If you need to take a break from

this thread then do it.

My point was: All housewives are hypocrites. All housewives are inconsistent. All housewives pick and choose when they are offended/hurt/traumatized. 

2020 has been an awful year, but I hope you have a good holiday week. 

19 minutes ago, Antoyne said:

What are you even talking about? How does that relate at all to what I said? You keep

posting over and over again about Karen coming for Gizelle.

I was making a joke considering that every housewife interrupts, changes the subject, or cries.  Rinse and repeat. I have not posted since early November because my take on RHOP is vastly different from everyone else (my first point in six weeks was a couple days ago). I'm not a fan of Karen and I don't think Monique is a saint, so I know my posts won't be popular around here. Some people don't take kindly to a difference of opinion or they are not kind when someone disagrees about a housewife they like. If I have repeated my KAren complaints, it's because I find it offensive to ignore the subject of sexual assault to take another dig at a housewife. Note taken that I have mentioned it too much. i guess my six week absence was not enough.

1 minute ago, Antoyne said:

Also literally anytime Monique spoke or a segment was about her, Candiace sat there talking so much sh.it and then they bring up the fight and now she’s suddenly traumatized all over again?! Get the fuc.k outta here. 

To be fair, she probably learned that from Karen who changes any subject to make it about Gizelle. 

RHOP: Let's be real. Monique and her team watched that video, and they catered her version to the video. Monique did not remember any of that--no one that out of control is going to remember every single detail. She has every right to study it, but don't lie and say it's your memory. I know people like Monique now, and don't like Candaice, but come on. Let's call everyone out for their b.s. Let's also remember that Monique destroyed the video with Michael assaulting the cameraman and that Karen excused Michael's behavior so she could take another swipe at Gizelle. 

RHOA: With Porsha's past actions, why is it wrong to question her activism? Some people on this board questioned it months ago (think it was the twerking thing if I remember correctly). 

Andy continued to question Monique's version of events on WWHL. MY sense is that Monique watched the video and she tailored her story to the video. No way someone that out of control remembered every single detail. 

It bothered me that Karen took Michael's assaulting men as a chance to go back at Gizelle. It was really icky. I know she has nothing else to do but go after Gizelle, but I expected KAren to take the allegations seriously, and not ignore them to take another swipe at Gizelle. Speaking of Michael, am I the only one who thinks Monique destroyed the evidence?

10 hours ago, Taoboi said:

But that's just it. Karen doesn't always go after Gizelle versus Gizelle going after her. Karen is out there living life. She is however calling Gizelle out. Why? Because Gizelle keeps coming for her friends and causing drama when Gizelle should be out there living her own life rather than being jealous of people for having a life. 

 

So now it's okay for Gizelle to hide stuff when Gizelle IS the self appointed hall monitor? Yeaaaah...no. That is the very point that Karen has been bringing up, especially this year. Especially after figuring out that Gizelle was winding up Wendy as a form of deflection. At some point, when someone comes after you time and time direct or indirectly (and for those two we are talking years) one does get a bit tired of it and give it back. Since Karen ISN'T a saint, she has no problem giving back what was thrown at her in the first place. 

 

 

I know I'm in a losing battle with this subject, but I think it's possible to think Gizelle is lying while thinking KAren has no story without Gizelle. Karen knows that. That's why she's keeping the pressure on Gizelle. That's why she always go after Gizelle at the reunions because she knows she has to keep it up. Karen (at least the last two seasons) has depended on other people for her story. Do people care about the alleged problems in her marriage? Comes across as so fake.  KAren has always gone after Gizelle, and while she might have good reason, I just find it tedious. Gizelle will reveal herself; Karen the hall monitor can take a breather. OF course, Gizelle is a pot stirrer, but if these women are so damn dumb (which is really what Karen is saying) that they can be so easily manipulated, how is it Gizelle's fault?? They've seen the show--they know what she does.

RHOM: @Cat I agree that's probably why Bravo chose the white women on the show, but I would also say that I think Lea was the favorite of the housewives. I think the major problem was that many of the women were lying about stuff behind the scenes. Ana was lying about her drinking. Adrianna was lying about nearly everything. Karent was hiding stuff as were Lisa and Joanna (especially about Roman). Marisol became a thirsty nutjob, and losing Mama Elsa was a huge blow to the show. Alexia was hiding her son's horrible criminal behavior. While I think season three was quite good (better than most seasons of current shows), I just think the toxicity got way too much for people. I think the Lea/Adrianna stuff was stronger than the contrived Joanna/Adrianna feud. There were real stakes there, but I also think finding out Adrianna was a liar also did some damage to the show.

1 hour ago, Taoboi said:

FIXED.

 

Because Gizelle has always been one to not answer that question about Mr. Chocolate and deflecting. And after the years of attacking Karen about that, Karen was simply returning the favor...especially since she sees what is going on the girls (and the fact that Gizelle set it rolling) for what it is: Deflection.

I get that, but it becomes annoying after a while. If you take Gizelle out of KAren's mouth, she barely has anything to do. She's like the Potomac version of Rinna going after Denise. I get that Gizelle is hiding stuff and there's some serious stuff there, but I just grow tired of KAren always going after Gizelle.  I guess I don't respond to self-appointed hall monitors. I know the board thinks she's saint Karen, but I just wish she would focus on her own life. People like Gizelle always bring down themselves. 

RHOA: Where did the Carlos King rumor start? Was it Phaedra or her blog friends who put that rumor forward? It seems that came up as a way to save Phaedra's job. Frankly, it makes her look worse, and it doesn't jive with everything else she did that season. She wanted to take Kandi down, and she didn't need King to do anything. Phaedra was a liar from her first episode, and she was a liar on her last. The only thing I miss about her is her fine ass ex-husband. I think her ex-con ex-husband had more integrity than she did.

RHOP: Karen on WWHL illustrated why I don't like her. She was asked if it were difficult to talk about her relationship trouble with Ray. Instead of answering, she went on a tirade about Gizelle and her relationship with Jamal. Andy even look bored at her deflection. Karen is obsessed with Gizelle, and I get why. If she keeps attacking Gizelle, she doesn't have to talk about her life or show anything substantial. She's really the Lisa Rinna of Potomac. 

RHOP: Is it me, or is Wendy the way Karen was in her first season? It feels like Karen is really reacting to her season one personality. Karen was a know-it-all scold in her first season. I don't know if educated women do well on housewives shows because there is always resentment from the other housewives and a lot of the fans resent it. I'm not saying that's the case about Wendy, but if I had four degrees, I'd be bringing it up every chance I got. That's a major accomplishment. I can see why someone like Karen wouldn't appreciate that.

12 hours ago, Taoboi said:

Oooo. Dish!!!

Tanya was aware of the cookie lady months before the lunchtime confrontation. Cynthia actually confronted Kenya at the lunch about bringing the cookie lady, and Tanya was aware of this. Tanya pretended none of this happened because the producers had not put these scenes in the show. In her speak on it, Cynthia tells of how the producers kept wanting Kenya and Cynthia to film at the cookie lady's store (at the beginning of the season) even though Cynthia barely knew her. She made it seem that the producers were behind the whole cookie lady stuff.

For me, I think  Tanya lost a lot of appeal when she was suddenly friends with Nene again after Nene said those disgusting things to her at the reunion. I knew then she was desperate to be on the show. I also think Cynthia's speak on it with Kandi spoke to how duplicitous Tanya is (. I remember thinking Kenya was fantastic on the reunion, and Nene was a disaster with her rehearsed reads and her weak comebacks to anything Kenya said. Porsha had the social distancing read, but for the most part, she was annoying too. I think it was probably the worst RHOA reunion as the first part was great, but the last two were duds. 

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Hmmmmmmm

 

Was Conboy as white as snow as he was described in the reunion? 

I know Patrick Mulcahey was not a fan of Conboy. He called him an idiot or something in an interview about Mulcahey's time on Santa Barbara.

4 hours ago, Antoyne said:

I just don’t care about Atlanta anymore. I’m going to watch obviously but with Potomac being the gold standard now, Atlanta just doesn’t have it anymore. 
 

And I had to roll my eyes at millionaire and then some Kandi, complaining about child support. Didn’t she just buy her kid a Porsche?

Potomac has definitely surpassed RHOA, but I'm willing to give it a try. I think the non-Nene season was one of the best, so fingers crossed this is going to be a good season. 

As for Kandi, I sort of see your point, but just because  Kandi is wealthy that doesn't mean Riley's father should not have any responsibilities. 

I don't buy Karen's marriage storyline for one second. It all reeks of a storyline cooked up for the show since she didn't do much last year. I know most people think she walks on water, but I find her "grande dame" act to be just that. IT may also be that I revisited the first season where she was awful so I don't buy this Lady Bountiful routine. I do think there are moments when she is wonderful (telling the women they needed to be more compassionate to wig-impaired Katie is a highlight; bringing up last year with C and A) but like Gizelle's current relationship, I'm skeptical and not accepting it. I'm willing to be wrong, but I can't square season one Karen with the wise yoda woman she's presenting herself this season. I also think it's telling that fans seem to "worship" Karen, but Bravo doesn't do much with her outside of the show. I wonder if Karen is a Shannon who is a terror behind the scenes. 

Karen has a point about Candaice/Ashley last year, but I always find people who remain neutral do the most damage. These tend to be the same people who say "I don't do politics." Monique's annoyance that they won't let her show her change just tells me she didn't change. No one has to give her a chance to show change when she acted violently especially when it's mainly about you getting seats in an oversold event. It's not up to them to make the effort; it's up to Monique, and clearly, Monique is not willing to do the work. Ms. Neutral is smart enough to know that if she answered the "What would you do?" question, it would be a plot point. She could have remained truly neutral, and said, "Candaice, only you know how to handle this situation, and I will support any decision you make." She knew she'd get airtime if she answered.

I would never denigrate Wendy for being educated, or for being a doctor. She put in a lot of hard work, and that is a major accomplishment. She didn't just marry a much older man to get status (that may seem like a dig at Karen but it was unintentional as I was thinking of RHOBH). She worked to get where she's at today and she should call herself Doctor any chance she gets. I would if I had the same education. If Wendy were coming after Gizelle, viewers would be cheering her in the streets. 

On a reality show, you're expected to forgive and move on when another housewife does something to you. I find that so bizarre as that's not the way life works. I'm all for Candaice not getting over it because that's real. However, I don't like milking it and seeing it as an opportunity and I'm someone who clearly thought Monique was in the wrong. I think the other women are being disingenuous, but Candaice is not making herself look good. She reminds me of Kim Richards when Rinna attacked. KR could have had the moral high ground but she was such a ghastly liar that she allowed a crying Rinna to get the sympathy. Candaice should take notes. I will say this: my belief is that you never really have to go after another HW because they always bring about their own downfall. I'm thinking of Kelly Dodd, Jill, Kim, Nene, Phaedra (rewatching some of ATL and she was awful. How was she liked?), etc.