Vee

Jason Morgan and Jason Q should have been merged with the memories years ago. Steve didn't let it happen and Guza didn't want it to. It still should tbqh

Pretty sure the accident and the new Jason was Labine.

I despised Carly for how she treated Robin, but I still found her fascinating and quasi-rootable at that time bc of her neuroses, pathos and obsession with Jason. It was very real and relatable. That's the best of what soap characters can make you feel, conflicted as a fan. I was not particularly hardcore for Jason and Carly though, bc I'd never liked Jason much either lol. I think JFP and Megan were determined to put their stamp on the show and make GH like their other terrible works as quickly as possible. That's why they went full force with Jensen Buchanan and Roy, and that's why cutting out the roots with characters like Carly and Emily served their purposes to supplant them. Of course, GH being the flagship of ABC was a bridge too far, and it didn't work. JFP never had that kind of power again.

I remember absolute fury from both fans online (Usenet) and critics. It was a shock bc so much time had been built up with Jason and Carly. I had no loyalty to Sonny/Brenda bc I had never liked Brenda much back then, lol. It took me a long time to appreciate her beyond the overexposure. I did find Carly fascinating though, even when I hated her for what she did to Robin, and I thought she was one of the most compelling characters on daytime. SJB's longing for Jason was so visceral, for so long, that I think it shook people hard, even me and I was angry she'd helped drive Robin out of town and away from Jason. But I recovered very quickly with her and Sonny lol. And yes, I believe they were named Best Couple for 2000, which they were. But that was later. I was very angry that they intended to kill Carly, no matter who it was in the role when Tamara took over. I do think she came into her own with the Guza material; her presumed death, etc. AFAIC anything Sonny/Carly after 2002 is dogshit though - romantically, at least. Drama can still be played with them, like when Carly cheated on Franco with him.

As I've said, I think Tamara, Laura and Sarah all have some of the same grit as Carly - Laura has been playing characters with that background her entire career, even when they try to pretty her up. It just happens that when almost all the longtime dialogue staff dating back to the '90s left in 2012, LW got stuck playing total dross for most of the last 10+ years. I don't blame her. I think she has been a very good steward for the character in hard times, I think she could do much more and I think Guza sometimes gave her good material. But no one will ever compare to Sarah IMO, and I liked Tamara a lot too. I remember when Tamara first came on. On her first day she looked like she weighed about 90 lbs, the hair color was off at first and she came in wearing a very loud early 2000s vinyl/leather jacket, looking like a teenager. It was a massive change from Sarah and was IMO a disaster initially; I was pissed. It didn't help that JFP and Megan McTavish had (allegedly) planned to kill Carly off following Sarah's blowout with Jill, using TB as a short-termer to exit the character while pairing Sonny up with their new find, the terrible Angel Boris. Maurice tanked that story (as he should've, IMO) and the fans revolted as well - we got behind Tamara. They worked together, the tide turned, Jill and Megan's creative regime was ousted and when Guza returned the writing for them and especially for Tamara leveled up considerably and we saw what she could really do. As bad as some of late '02 and certainly 2003 got, when Guza first returned the show changed overnight from something alien and fake back to something familiar and adult. Then it rapidly got very adolescent, tacky and single-note, but that's another post. And of course Sonny and Carly fell apart in 2003 IMO along with the rest of the show - I think 2003 was the height of the Pratt excess, not just Guza (who is plenty culpable for many things), because I think it was Pratt who, like Frons, was obsessed with Courtney. Tamara was right to push for her and TK, because they were hot as hell and the background on Lorenzo (the history professor forced back into the family business, etc) was IMO well done. But the contempt for her rebelling came out onscreen from Steve and Maurice, which I've never forgiven them for. I liked Maurice and Tamara together in 2001 and 2002, but I loved the original Sonny and Carly the most. It was a pairing that was reviled when it first happened, the audience and critical reaction was utter disgust, I remember it well. But really, people should've seen it coming. They had been building to it for a long while. Guza was clearly fascinated with putting Sarah and Maurice together. And they won me over very, very fast. They were that good together. They were the last GH supercouple and they only lasted a little over a year. I have had zero interest in Sonny and Carly together since 2003 and would not want them together even if Sarah returned to the role, but nonetheless, if we're talking the past it will always be the originals for me. Nothing touched them.

Lol this show really moves fast. I remember how they would burn through characters often from mystery to mystery but the Madisons seem fairly established and have only been on 3-4 months when Mansion of the Damned kicks off. That's a lot to take in, but Edge always did do things differently. Logan, uptight or not, is much more attractive than Draper IMO.

Good lord.

Am I crazy or did the legendary Eddie Drueding also run an EON site? The layout of an older site with bios, etc. was identical to his AW homepage. There seems to be an updated version of the EON site around today, but with far fewer active bios (I was trying to look up when the Madisons started airing in '78 or '79).

I actually don't think there's anything to invest in with the current Sonny and Carly. I've never felt it was serious this time. I feel the 2010s iteration of them has always been a marriage of convenience and comfort for the characters in their heart of hearts, nothing more. It could break apart tomorrow. And it's clearly the show out of ideas.

It must be said again, Lisa Rinna and RKK (and to a lesser extent, Reckell) were hot as hell in that era. I never fully forgave Hope for coming back and driving Billie out of town. It crushed me.

Another interesting thing to note re: the long conversation caroline and I have had re: Sonny, Brenda and whether he could leave the mob for a woman - I saw the scenes the other day with Benard and Cynthia Watros/Nina at his 'grave'. While Mo struggled to perform dialogue as usual, she really got to him and he was quite emotional as she talked about him having had the option to leave his old life and the underworld behind. The material surrounding Amnesia Sonny and his life with her in Nixon Falls may be shitty hackwork, but there was something there in his reaction that could well be used as a lead-in someday to choosing Brenda over that world. All of this. I think that's the real difference in the Carlys, it's not about Laura Wright (though she has often played hardscrabble characters who come into power).

LW has always had that rough and tumble Maryland girl pumping gas deep down IMO. It's there in every role she's ever played on daytime. The soccer mom stuff (or Cassie the stripper becoming an island princess on GL) is just what she (and Carly) have come up into. I've always seen beneath. I can imagine Sarah playing opposite the kids but it would be very different. The writers never really had to be challenged by LW's portrayal because Carly, since both of the kids came of age, has mostly been written very poorly with virtually all the old writing staff gone. In fairness, I think the only ones worth a damn were Chloe, V. and Kristina Sr. I don't think Hannah ever fully worked and I liked LV with Billy Warlock.

I believe so, yes.

I could swear I remember Laura's Carly using her training to sneak into the hospital and examine the records re: the monkey virus in 2006(?). I think that's the last time I remember her referencing it though.

I don't necessarily think Carly is all that far removed from who she was. She got money and power and she used to it to create a lux hotel home/world for herself which she controls and always has a place for her and her family, unlike where she came from, and can lord it over others as needed. She's still poor white trash if you scratch the surface and I think Sarah can play it all easily. I think it's the stories that got weak. I always liked Jaime Ray Newman even when fans mostly hated her at the time. I had wanted JJ to come back and be paired with her - Spencer and Cassadine, in love. I thought losing her was a huge waste. I think the original baby Kristina secret was dynamite, and kept hidden for a good long stretch. Unfortunately they've failed Kristina completely as an adult. It didn't have to be that way. I have also not forgotten that racist peasant line lmao. It ages worse by the year!

I think they did but I can't recall a second of it. Sarah also has gotten a bit more glam since then as well (though I have no doubt she can still bring the fury). And yes, Mo's jealousy re: TK was no secret.

Yeah, the stories on those shows were the problem. The chemistry was not in question for me.

I think it may have been Benard, Guza, Frons or some combination. Either way they iced him. I think Lorenzo started out very strong and then they turned him deliberately into the goat for emasculating story, like Jax or Nikolas. I always thought LW and TK had very hot chemistry on Loving/TC. I think the Sarah of today could play off of him well (and still bring the true, raw Carly into the mix, and fuse both sides together organically). Back then, no.

I honestly think someone made it clear Ted King/Lorenzo could not and would not be given frontburner story again, and that's why LW ended up with Jax. I think they were that threatened by what went down with him and TB's Carly in 2003-2004. Putting Wright and King back together seemed so obvious with her a major, popular daytime star and yet they didn't dare, even though the characters were still married when she joined the show. They're lucky Laura and Ingo had real chemistry and fans went for it. It was the first and only time Ingo had a real role on the canvas again, as the man who put her and her children first, and as I've said before I don't think it would've ever worked with any other Carly; the others were too raw for him IMO. I'll always feel Carly made a huge mistake losing Jax, who gave her a real home, and that's ironic for me because the idea of pairing Sarah or Tamara with Jax back in the day always grossed me out. But we've had this conversation.

Print ads have always been huge for soaps, though. The key is doing print ads for couples and stories that already work and already have the audience, or for introducing a new story or lead (as was often done in the '80s). Not oversaturating it for prefabricated couples no one wants. It was so blatant I couldn't believe it, and then I spent the next decade-plus having Sam stans insist to me she was never a Brenda stand-in. Please.

Guza had no investment in Jax when he returned. Ingo returning was a network move that happened while Guza was away and something they clearly had no idea what to do with, especially once Guza was back in the big chair. IIRC that was the period when they randomly told the magazines the oft-single Jax was casually frequenting hookers for leisure post-Brenda's exit in '03. He had nothing to do for a long while, and they only foisted him off on Courtney because Guza also hated Courtney, forced on him by Brian Frons, and had finally found the opening to downgrade her character with the arrival of Kelly Monaco. Same thing happened with Nikolas later on; Guza had tired of TC/Nikolas quickly, and made him the heavy and heel in multiple stories. Nik and Courtney was a pairing of heels designed to wreck and marginalize them both, nothing more (whether or not TC and ALW were involved IRL as rumored didn't matter, because it still served Guza's ends and disinterest in both of them). Guza tired of former faves (Nikolas, Alexis, etc) often and could be really vindictive. Jax had had his moment in the sun for BG in the late '90s, but it was past. As for Sam, I don't think Jax/Sam was ever something the show took seriously. The network maybe, looking for an available hunk to pair KM with, but GH hadn't been invested in Jax at all for several years up til that point. He was always going to be a stopover one way or another. I do think they actually could've worked well together if they'd kept to the original concept of Sam the treasure hunting adventurer, in lighter fare - harkening back to GH's '80s roots - but they didn't.

IIRC, Guza was into V.; Riche was not. There were a lot of conflicts around that time.

The only thing I remember about Titans is crushing on Kevin Zegers.

It's there. That's right about the arms dealer. So when they did bring on Alcazar in '02, I remember being very impressed with the show bc I had remembered the details of that cameo very clearly re: an arms dealer/powerful man Brenda was with. Many shows tend to shrug that kind of detail off when exiting stars either leave, are hinted to return, etc. (I'm not sure if GL ever explained how Josh saw Reva on a tourist video, for example)