Vee

Oh, I didn't expect Todd and Blair to be together as a package on GH. But with a supercouple where the guy had been gone like eight years in some torture chamber, only just reunited at the end of the show and it seemed like the HW was grudgingly writing it at times near the end, it was a bit of a kick in the dick. But I know how it goes when people cross over from soaps, I've seen it before. The people who get a contract are going to get new pairings, that's a fact of life. Blair was lucky not to have died in a plane crash like Vicky Hudson. The problem was that Ron wanted to have it both ways on GH; he wanted to perpetually string out the tease of Todd and Blair for the OLTL audience by constantly having her visit or be in Todd's orbit or lose his one romantic rival for her (Ted King's offscreen OLTL character, Tomas), but he didn't want to ever commit to anything long-term. He just kept playing the subplot in the background. And I just didn't think Todd and Carly offered anything different for either of them. Plus, if you stacked it against her and A.J. there's no contest. So if Todd was going to be there it should've been a cleaner break which gave the old fans some sort of payoff and closure, not the constant tease, and it wasn't that because Ron wasn't ready to let go of OLTL. And they never really have, lol! I also thought it was foul what they did to the Téa fans - killing her baby with Victor Jr. Ron and Frank had already unceremoniously 'killed off' TSJ's Victor near the end of the show, now they had their only child die. Victor II was a crazy bastard but TSJ and FL were hot as hell, and they had their fans. I don't care who it was, it was a shitty thing to do to their fans after killing the guy (who they never got around to resurrecting themselves - OLTL 2.0 had to do it). I was for the GH baby switch revisit which made sense for Todd, but they could've done it without killing Téa's son. That was insult to injury for those fans. I agree. And I think that is what FV is afraid of. IMO he likes people he can manage and keep in their place, fob them off with promises and then do what he wants. Vanessa was capable of forcing Guza's hand on the Dante storyline in 2010. FV can't control VM, and she is big enough to command her place. That was the drama with Genie, and it's the drama here. The way he runs GH, he can't have that. It's a very poor business decision IMO, but I think it's his worldview. I think if you start bringing major GH giants back with that kind of pull, the days for his favorite actors (not just the OLTLers) and his perspective on GH as a hybrid/ABC Daytime refuge soap are numbered.

I think they worked out pretty well on the show, though I didn't approve of keeping the fanbases from OLTL on an endless string - I despised McBain on OLTL and was thrilled Natalie was free of him, but I was also able to deal with him in a new context as a cop who had zero respect for Sonny and Jason. That was refreshing. And I was admittedly invested in Todd and Blair from OLTL who Ron consistently had given short shrift, yet he seemed intent on keeping the flame going with them with Kassie DePaiva coming in and out for perpetual recurring stints to tease the romance going hot and cold, which I didn't think was entirely fair to the audience; I also thought that if you were going to move him on to someone else it needed to be with someone different from Blair, as opposed to Carly who came off as a rebound version of the same woman he'd been obsessed with for years, and a rushed affair despite Howarth and Laura's chemistry. (They also had Carly side with Todd against Jason after learning he stole Jason and Sam's baby, and I'm sorry - there is no universe in which that would ever have [!@#$%^&*] happened.) Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I don't think you could ever have those characters back now, especially Todd the rapist. It's too bad, because despite some flaws the experiment worked IMO. But I didn't fault OLTL 2.0 for taking back its property, especially when GH still had Sean Kanan and many other viable new leads that worked in their place (and Kanan and LW were scorching together). But Ron and Frank couldn't handle losing their faves, and that's when things went downhill. I just think Vanessa is a big personality and a very strong presence on the show, and Frank cannot tolerate people he can't control or keep in their place because they don't need the show. IMO that's part of why Genie kept leaving. She would not return without a contract, and he kept wanting to keep her on recurring and play it cheap, and eventually he had to bend. If he can't control a veteran or can't fit them into his conception of the show and what it should focus on, if someone can destabilize that, he considers it a threat. I think Vanessa is the biggest threat possible, because she doesn't need the show and she's a bit flaky or wild and DGAF, lol. But this is at least partially conjecture, and I may be armchair psychoanalyzing a little or a lot.

On OLTL, when Ron first took over, there were a series of special episodes devoted to Asa Buchanan's death. Those episodes were largely very good (as was much of Ron's first year, IMO) but there were some weird side things. During the event, Viki and Dorian were once again locked together in a wine cellar or something and had it out for the umpteenth time. Viki brought up Victor's death. Dorian told Viki that she hadn't killed Victor after all - "I killed Victor." She offered no explanation for how this could be given Viki's re-integrated memory of doing so, and when Viki brought up Victor's unlikely return from the grave in 2003 Dorian simply said "if that was really him." It was never elaborated upon, but they did make a point of changing Victor's death date back to the '70s on the Lord mausoleum set, so they clearly meant to undo the terrible Victor resurrection plot from 2003. I am glad they undid his resurrection, but I don't believe Dorian killed Victor after all, simply because Ron never bothered to explain a thing, and because I always liked the twist that it was Viki and that Dorian had spent years bearing the public shame and hatred to protect her. But this is what Ron does sometimes with controversial past stories; he suggests there is a seed of doubt but completely fails to explain the details. Back to the topic, he did this at GH with Rick Webber during the 50th anniversary as well - Rick's ghost is called on the attic story with Laura and Theresa Carter, and Rick simply says that 'that's not what happened' or words to that effect. There's no other discussion. It's lazy. I think the show, though very flawed and volatile with some really terrible stories and much degraded daily writing, was fun and had a lot of strengths for most of 2012 through to late spring 2013. Even after the OLTLers returned there was still some good fun for awhile (though the Pickle Lila stuff on The Chew which ends in virtually the entire onscreen cast contracting violent diarrhea is possibly the worst episode of GH I have ever seen). They did save the show for a good stretch. I was so glad they brought the Nurses Ball back. I think it's important it continue. I also think it's important it not be quite so cheap and embarrassing when they do it, and it's been that way for some time, so maybe it can take a brief break lol. Lesley and Tracy still appear on a recurring basis, and Kimberly seems happy to show up whenever. I will eat my hat if Frank allows VM back on set.

[!@#$%^&*]! I knew it was at Kelly's for both her and Robin. Damn, I'm good. Anyway, yes, it touched me that he was given that seal of approval from two of the audience's most beloved characters. Didn't last, of course. The Sean stuff is a bit campy with a drawing-room mystery but it's a fun one-off and true to the spirit of the characters. Reilly's daughter (a Tiktok star, IIRC) is very good but sadly will likely not be back given her fame, so they should recast the Annie role. Sharon Wyatt's voice cameo was touching. They should've locked down Carly Schroeder as Serena when they had a chance. She kept acting long after she grew up. Now she's in the armed forces. Too late.

The uh, intense Y&R forum at PTV has absolutely roasted Newman mercilessly, lol. I don't think he's doing that bad, I think the show is just that bad. I know Newman can play the bad guy. If people want to see the kind of driving drama and business intrigue Y&R should be doing with a minimum of budget overhead, look at The Dropout, the Amanda Seyfried-led adaptation of the Elizabeth Holmes/Theranos scandal on Hulu. It may have stars but you can tell that story without stars on a daytime soap easily - it is a con built around a wannabe mega-corporation and an ambitious tycoon with delusions of grandeur and one big lie. Everything is character, crippling flaws, ego, ambition and neuroses. I can think of half a dozen characters on Y&R who could be another Holmes.

I could swear Brenda saw him and was very pleasant! I may be way off and conflating it with Robin the following year. I can't be sure right now. Ah, the Mandela Effect.

Oh, I remember that now. That was sort of the last golden period for the show before everything fell apart with the OLTL 3 returning. There was some dumb shít onscreen but not too much. My favorite bit from that anniversary interim was both Brenda and Robin* greeting A.J. with open arms - that was a statement by the show. It would not have happened in the Guza era. I miss that. ETA: Forgot Robin was still 'dead' at the time. I think she later saw him when she returned and gave the same reception as Brenda, but I may be wrong.

Jordan #3 is the worst of all the Jordans. She is terrible (turrible!!) and it's not like the character has ever had much of a personality, even with poor Vinessa Antoine. The Black folks on this show are largely there to fill a space. Trina is the exception and even she is increasingly kept in a corner. I'll believe that will change when I see it. The popular original actor is leaving and she and her popular leading man still have not even kissed. Curtis, Jordan, Portia and poor Taggert have no real storyline of import. Portia is the only one I would keep of those four adults, and I'd keep Real Andrews around on recurring. But there have to be actual Black characters with investment, stature and key story. Right now everything with the grown folks is just a reheated, slightly less transparent version of what Y&R does with the Winters hive.

Pass.

I enjoyed the Brenda stuff and most of Cassadine Island, silly though the latter was. I've talked about loving the Laura/Stavros stuff. I don't remember the Hardy/Webber exposition; I'll have to rewatch the whole thing.

We've talked about it a lot in the years since the wave of cancellations at the end of the 2000s-early 2010s in just that same way. The OLTL oral history has the actors discussing it at length. It all goes back to that lack of time and budget, which in turns leads to a lack of passion and energy. I think the network clamping down on what stories they approve, or what a show thinks they can sell to a shrinking, aging audience and in an increasingly polarized time also is an issue - everything is babies these days or pablum. GH and DAYS occasionally have sparks of life, but for the most part these shows are simply about subsistence at this point, going through the motions and keeping the lights on, and that's sad.

Jeff Webber was always kind of a dick and often volatile, but if they really go for some sort of repressed abuse thing with Liz here that'll be way too far. I do hope they bring on the parents, but I expect GH to do it in the most boring or muted way possible when those characters could be powerhouses (I've been thinking of Liz's mysterious mom, who we now after decades know to be named 'Carolyn,' to be a brilliant surgeon and queen bitch in the mold of Colleen Zenk or something, and Robert Newman could easily be an equally dickish Jeff since Ashland Locke is not long for the world). Is that the Q mansion kitchen Michael and one of the anonymous white chicks are in? It looks like a playset of the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air set!

I think the ghost [!@#$%^&*] was really goofy - there were better ways to use each of the returnees, especially the confusing stuff with Rick (where Rick mumbles 'that's not what happened' re: the attic story, similar to how Ron Carlivati sort of just tried to fluff off the Viki-killed-Victor retcon on OLTL with zero explanation). But I loved the Audrey stuff and the Nurses Ball, minus Sabrina. I'll never forget the Audrey sequence, because I could swear the applause for Rachel Ames was not scripted or was hidden from her. She looked genuinely shocked and touched. (Timestamped below)

She behaved nothing like Erin's Jessica, but that's a whole other thing.

Oh, I am all for calling Carlivati out on his misbehavior or calling for him to be fired. I just don't think making threads devoted entirely to firing the one staff writer who used to be just a fan and acting like he has magically taken over the entire writing staff are productive or seem sane, it just seems like crazy grudge stuff. It demeans the actual substantive arguments against RC and co.'s work as a larger team, and makes people sound like Charlie Day with the conspiracy board on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Welcome back to a day by day reenactment of every day's online discussion of the OLTL Teen Jessica story, lol. What amazes me is how Jamey went for this, since I could swear even he had to admit that one was a dog.

Exactly. I have plenty of issues with the writing on DAYS, but when folks do threads like these they make sure these people are going to be laughing to the bank. The only reason this thread exists is because people know who Jamey is and because Jamey credited himself with the very stupid Renee twist. But it's only because of our shared familiarity with him as a fan and a blogger that he is singled out for an OP that people have suddenly decided he is rewriting everyone else and running the show. That's about a grudge match with someone who isn't even here and doesn't know you. Listen, I have all day for people critiquing the hell out of Jamey's work on this show! Go for it! Roast him! It's shallow and stupid, even if I think he's matured a bit as a person since the old days. But it takes a village of writers to make a show this bad, not just the latest, and it's not like Ron doesn't have a history of wrecking his own shows. You don't have to make any one person the Wicker Man and burn them in effigy because they used to be just like you, and if you make it personal they're the ones who win, because they're getting paid and you're not. It also blunts and marginalizes any valid criticism when we invent conspiracy theories about them being behind it all like the cigarette-smoking man on The X-Files. Back to the HW, even when Ron starts beefing on Twitter and acting a fool (a time-honored tradition for him at this point) he's the one who wins if you go at it this way too. The only way to come out of this kind of mess with dignity is to either shrug his behavior off, or simply keep laughing when he gets mad and not take it this seriously. I've known how he behaves online for a long time, and I watched Jamey show his ass in real time too. Why would I want to meet him where he lives? This just is not worth it in the 2020s to me, we've got real problems.

As I said in the AMC thread when it first came up a week or two ago, there's a lot of talk about VI and his family going awhile back. There's also a lot of conservatives or right wingers in daytime and always have been, for decades - among all our favorites. As long as they don't throw it in my face and openly push fascism or threaten public health towards their castmates or audience (c/f: Ingo Rademacher, Steve Burton) I can shrug most of it off. I have little doubt a fair amount of what I've heard about Irizarry or his son is true. That doesn't mean he deserved to die, and it doesn't mean I didn't or can't enjoy his performances onscreen and don't wish him a swift recovery. It is entirely possible he's someone whose politics I find repugnant; unfortunately, in daytime, that's a big club.

I went to school in the damn dark for years in DC. It happens.

Not screenshotting your Firefox....

I feel bad for ol' Alice. Didn't she die a few years later while still on the show and Heather immediately seized on it somehow to make a play for something?

I love Jane Campion's work but she is eccentric, and what she said was dumb at best. I'm glad she apologized, but she's gonna take her turn in the barrel.

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