Vee

Exactly. DAYS and Peacock/NBC never claimed they would do that.

Thanks to a considerable backlog of undiscussed eps I had notes on from the last month as well as the kindness of a lovely stranger, my access to KL has been quickly re-secured. Hence I'll try to cover a bunch of Season 5 episodes in rapid succession if you'll indulge me, but we'll start with just Eps 7 and 8 of Season 5. I can't promise the constant frequency of the past pre-COVID due to life and work, but I will try to remain reasonably regular and cover at least all of Season 5 sequentially, and perhaps Season 6 if I feel like it. I will also keep watching the show at my own pace regardless of spamming this thread, lol. Anyway, where were we? Oh yes - Episode 7 (Sacred Vows): Abby: You know, from the first minute I ever saw you I wanted you. And I've moved Heaven and Earth to get you. And now that I've got you, I'm the happiest woman in the world. I love getting what I want. I'm pretty surprised they let the cat out of the bag on Lisa Hartman's return so quickly in the opening guest credits for this episode. KL had already faked people out on Don Murray's exit by keeping him in the opening intro with the regular cast for the first two episodes of Season 2 even when he was on the way out, something most shows failed to do to keep surprises secret in the '80s and much of the '90s. You'd think they could have left her name for the end credits as she only appears at the end. But we'll get to that. The real focus this week is Abby's Mission: Impossible - marry Gary before he inherits and secure the bag before he falls back in love with Val, which he's basically already done if you'll refer back to my discussion back on page 100. Gary and Val being about a breath away from having an affair behind Abby's back; irony never dies. He even tells the concerned Cunningham kids that he doesn't think he and Abby are breaking up, so what is he actually thinking at this point, how far ahead? He is a self-aware enough man at this point in life to know he and Val are falling for each other again, so where is his endgame in his mind? Abby is on the ragged edge for most of this episode, and we rarely see that. She knows something's happened and she's losing. She tells Westmont she knows what she's doing in her play for Gary but we can see that she doesn't. Sumner is still fascinating to her though, and he lets her vent about Gary before becoming the aggressor, sweeping her into a kiss. She's not used to that from a man, she is the seducer. William Devane is an extremely compelling match with Donna Mills, and it makes me wonder what the show had in mind at this point. I know they get together at some point down the road in a different way and that it didn't work out for the show, but they're great in this relationship. "Give my regards to your fiancé," Greg smirks as he exits, and the feeling on Abby's face is clear: Exhilaration among equals. Diana and Coma Chip at the hospital: I still think he's faked it the whole time tbh. There is a pure Friday the 13th-esque, Harry Manfredini-style horror movie musical sting as he 'flatlines' though. If only. Laura is the x-factor that changes everything in this episode, needling a shirtless Gary about Val, which was a lot to process with the two of them together visually and Laura wearing the pants, so to speak. She warns him off Val here, again comparing Gary's presence in Val's life to alcohol for him - a comparison Val drew herself at the end of last season. "If you really cared about her you'd leave her alone," Laura says flatly, and for Gary it's here the die is finally cast for Abby - last seen ascending to her palace bedroom at her office seemingly beaten and alone. As it's Laura that is key to Abby's Ewing ascendency, I'm not sure either woman will ever get over it. Cute Ben lurks on the outskirts of Sumner's crime commission gala and Karen urges him to fight for Val, but at the same time Val's being jilted by Gary at a downtown diner, not unlike the one she worked in for years outside Dallas, pining for her man and her long-lost daughter, except now she's rich and decked out in her newfound finery. I cannot believe Gary just left her there without a call. It's beautiful drama though, classic; him sitting just outside, sacrificing his own happiness for hers. Again, you wonder how much of what is happening between them, how much could happen he has fully processed. Did Lilimae's rambling mania in this episode confirm that Chip and Ciji knew each other before they were officially introduced by others onscreen? I think it does, and that's what I always suspected based on their behavior and how their affair was revealed last season. This institution plot is a bit of a slow one for me but Harris and JVA are heartbreaking. Knots Landing Motors is seen again, and Eric is working there in uniform! I almost didn't recognize him this episode and in the next one in his monogrammed shirt. Is he in college yet? The strain over Diana remains behind Karen's eyes and in her work patterns, grinding into the middle of the night. Eric can't take it anymore though, confronting Diana and invoking Sid, telling her their father would never tolerate what she's done for Chip. This seems to finally cut into Diana and she turns into a pleading child: "He's my husband, I love him, can't you see that?" She needs that for herself somehow, more than anything else, maybe because she did lose Sid and then the concept of Karen as Mrs. Fairgate, mother and not independent agent. Diana gives constant testimonials to her love to her 'sleeping' man (I still don't believe it!) and her fantasy image of an adult lover, and how 'lucky' she is to be loved by him, but Eric's words have shaken her hard and she's going to tell the cops the truth - which means it's time for Chip to 'wake up'! I honestly didn't think this crazy little bitch would break so soon. Abby alone blasting classical music by the fireplace in her private palace, pondering the ruins of her grand plans is great - Donna Mills says so much with just a look in her eyes. When Gary does come to her and declare himself after all and agrees to marry her, and they consume each other ecstatically by the firelight, Abby clearly can't believe her luck. The morning after, we have the new opening credits shot of Gary on his steed in his glory finally shown in an episode, as he ponders his whole future spread out across Westfork in a glorious pan of the wilderness he owns while also clearly saying goodbye to Val without any cut to her or any dialogue. It's gorgeous stuff. The Gary/Abby wedding against all odds is typically early '80s, all fringe and embarrassing fashion, but the intercutting with Val and Lilimae as the latter is institutionalized is great, with great camera angles on Julie Harris. Meanwhile, at the wedding Laura is hilariously chewing on her cheek and rolling her eyes. The Clements women's heartache is juxtaposed seamlessly with Gary and Abby finally united in a way I didn't think was possible or plausible an episode or two ago. Ultimately while I do think Gary has real love for Abby and a unique aspect of himself twinned with her, he did this and married her because of Val, for Val, and I wonder if Abby will ever find that out. They even cut to JVA weeping for Lilimae an instant after the vows, and then cut right back to the marital kiss! The slow pan through Val's lavish, empty house - formerly her and Gary's humble dream home - is beautifully done, with quiet music. As she slowly learns about the wedding over the phone, it's the restraint and sheer amount of time taken in a primetime drama - not something that would be done today with a scene like that - that makes so much of these kind of sequences on this show. They let things sit and process. Honeymoon Abby is uniquely sated; 'it's just as good legal.' I've seen parts of the big ending twist with Lisa Hartman before but I was waiting for it. While it's blocked and choreographed well and done carefully, I am surprised they showed her full face out of the elevator before Gary saw her in the hotel suite. The tension leading up to it was solid though. Episode 8 (A Change of Heart): Still no Lisa Hartman in the opening credits - okay. I wonder when she gets added. Anyway, Diana's eerily-soundtracked police deposition is great, where she confesses Chip's sins through the interrogation room glass, with the reflection-ghost of Mack fading in and out of the one-way mirror of the box, overlaid onto her form. Neat work by director Robert Becker. Diana crying about 'keeping what we had from falling apart' makes her seem truly pathetic, but I have very little sympathy. I think Mack teared up though, but I can't recall for sure. Even as Diana is confessing that Chip killed Ciji 'for her,' Gary is already preoccupied with Ciji's ghost and his glimpse of Vertigo in her doppelganger, Cathy Geary. I wonder if the resemblance is ever explained; I always assumed she was a blood relation. Meanwhile, Abby is luxuriating in finally being Mrs. Gary Ewing, even affecting a Southern accent to tease her henchman, Westmont - 'ah sweah, Jim, ah don't know what yer talkin' 'bout!' Gary's full inheritance has finally been activated, and this means the new Mrs. Ewing can move in full on the mysterious Lotus Point property and snaking sis-in-law Karen out of it. Sumner wisely suggests forming a PAC (a white-collar maneuver far more relevant today) and the heat between him and Abby is already visible to Laura. Chip is awake! I still think he was faking. Sue me. Lilimae and her new mental institution bob look great but she stays utterly ignoring poor Ben, who can't compete with Val's angst over Gary, or as she often calls him, 'Garrehhh'. Mack and unexpected '80s belly shirt Michael shoot hoops in the driveway of the Fairgate/MacKenzie house and get to play backdrop to Ben and Val's somber conversation about troubled family. Any attempt at a normal get-together for any of them simply falls on sad ears, and the real ghost between Val and Ben is not just the wedding, but the ONS with Gary she's told almost no one of. Meanwhile, Karen's reached her Waterloo: Desperate to have Diana home, she appeals to the awakened Chip, prostrating herself before him and struggling to find his virtues. He just keeps grinning and toying with her in his way, and watching Karen's resolve crumble in the face of his photogenic smile and opaque, studied geniality is a masterclass from Michele Lee. At home, Mack pleads with Karen to go away with him bu she's burnt out, adrift and incoherent. (I can relate these days) Finally, staring down a happy Fairgate family snapshot from better days at KL Motors, she goes for the pills. Gary trailing Cathy all the way to a gym straight out of the Travolta/Jamie Lee Curtis bomb "Perfect" where hyper-aerobicized hardbodies pump iron alongside the unshorn, fried-hair Lisa Hartman makes me wonder how hard butch we are supposed to take her as vs. Ciji. Hmm. Back at Westfork it seems the place has in addition to everything else a gigantic open-air steam room/sweat lodge with hot rocks, because of course it does. Again: How did the folks over at Dallas let KL get away with this without getting an upgrade of their own? Their regular sets look like dated dogshit by comparison to Westfork, I'm sorry. Abby finally allows herself to unveil the big Ewing inheritance news to her new husband, but it seems Gary knew all along. I love his manic, irreverent reaction: "It's Daddy's way of saying 'have a nice day!'" Diana is having yet another tantrum over not getting her way at the hospital, and like me the cops are over it. "It must be a full moon," the lead slob cop says, and I cackled. But sure enough, Chip is gone and of course this crazy bitch is grinning. I cannot wait to see the back of Diana. Anyway: More soon, I have a few more eps on ice and more to come.

Not really, IMO. They all looked old.

Let's not go that far. Thanks for stopping by!

A younger woman, sure. I just don't see why she couldn't have been more physically oriented however many hundreds or thousands of years before LOTR happened.

Same here. But I don't believe she would have come back as Lois at all in the 2000s. She was way too hot in primetime (even in dud roles) for years. I'll be surprised if she goes back to GH now. She has had a healthy career.

I am well aware of how much the right hates Brian Stelter, and how he was targeted by some of CNN's new right wing stakeholders. But I don't care. He was the happy, vacuous face of bothsides Beltway centrism that cheerily parroted any trendy DC article in the face of facts or sensible logic (like last's summer's 'are liberals pandemic addicts for not unmasking and letting me go to brunch?' pieces, which aged like milk) and fastidiously ignored or whitewashed all internal CNN scandals (Cuomo, Jeff Zucker) while whining about Fox News. He was an insidious, jolly and uncurious cancer and I celebrate his unemployment.

What is perverted about Galadriel being a warrior as a younger woman, hundreds of years before?

Adieu, grinning prince.

I mean, I'm no big LOTR fan and I am very skeptical about Amazon and this show which I probably won't watch, but it seems like you're almost the only one posting in here about how much you hate it. I haven't seen that much negative commentary on it online so far. I even went looking for it after you kept posting through it and have found almost none except for right wing nutjobs. Why not reserve judgment?

Well, it was fun while it lasted. As I'd always feared, the KL source on YT went down while I was recovering from a nasty bout with COVID, with me about halfway through Season 5. I don't use Twitter as a user, so should the @cbsknotslanding twitter account bring back its videos on another outlet (like Sharepoint) or people find another access point, DMing me would be much appreciated (and please pass along my regards to the account). In the meantime I'll post my thoughts on Season 5 at some point soon. It's not an ending, just a break. I doubt you can keep that account down.

Bringing Andrea back, divorced and a single parent to her child (a la Carly/Swank), as a romantic challenge to Brandon and Kelly and co-worker for Brandon at the paper would've worked. (This is a role Lindsay Price ended up filling for Steve as Janet at the paper, and I think she may have just started as a recurring bit player who moved up when they dumped Swank and liked the chemistry with Ziering; I never really cared for Janet.) But the show was allergic to going there with Brandon and Andrea despite the very, very long tease. It simply was not set up to disrupt its own paradigms.

Oh, I personally think she definitely approached Ted McGinley levels on primetime lol, at least in terms of being ubiquitous. She was added to virtually every show out there at one point, which is the main reason why I've said she's never lacked for work since GH. I just don't think she killed Melrose specifically, and I don't think she was necessarily wrong for all those shows (though she was wrong for a lot of them). When you take the Lois accent away, unless Rena's character has strong writing or at least an outsize personality - like Quinn on B&B did, hence her success - RS can be stuck doing what Carla Gugino, around that same era, had to do on a lot of sitcoms and dramas: Play the sort of neutral brunette who is just there. (Gugino is super talented and having a career renaissance these days, particularly in the work of Mike Flanagan on streaming, but there were a lot of years where she was stuck being 'That Girl' on primetime)

@DRW50I knew you'd like this skit for the Blu-Ray release of William Hartnell's second year. These sets are such a labor of love.

Donna, everyone already has talked about this in this thread.

Giving Mac a kid is an obvious way to go. The unknown backstory there is more than enough. The show potentially trying to magic up children for Felicia in the early '90s or Dominique and Scott out of nowhere, when they were all present enough that there is literally no available timespan possible for either of those things to have happened (unless Coby is Serena's twin or Ryan stole Felicia's eggs like Valentin or some gross shít), is ridiculous.

I don't love Scott getting involved with a deranged terrorist and eugenicist who should be back in Steinmauer, but Kathleen Gati is talented, they have fun together for the moment and it's not like Scott is a stranger to, well, strange. I'd still make Obrecht a recurring on-off villain to come in and out again; I don't believe she has a permanent place in a normal canvas. As for Bobbie, Jackie Zeman's face has gone through so many changes, both good, bad and worse in the last 20 years; every time I think it's settled down and is looking better, something else is done and she can barely speak. Frankly it's severely affected her performance, not just how she enunciates but what she poorly tries to bring to the delivery to make up for her facial issues. It's sad, because I love Bobbie and always have. But unless Jackie's face is doing better and she can deliver more nuanced work I don't need to see her that often anymore. AFAIK, based on timelines, there is absolutely no conceivable way Scott and Dominique could have another adult child. Unless they want to suggest Josh Kelly is somehow Serena's long lost twin which, no.

You're absolutely right, which was my first instinct as well.

Yeah, I remember that. Which is why I doubt anything serious will occur. We've been here before with Kin. But who knows.

What would they gain from cutting or offing Scott or Bobbie? I don't believe either have been on contract in forever.

Something like it is the only thing that can work now and is what should be done on streaming. Arc-based soap seasons, block taping with breaks. That is the only future the medium has in America, IMO but I doubt anyone will do it with the existing brands. The PP soaps came close but couldn't get there due to management.

It's a shame, especially since he gave a good interview about his time at GH and his praises for all the wonderful years maybe in the last day or two. But I've counted Kin out before. I don't think he'll ever be truly gone.

LOL she didn't kill Melrose. The final season was a bit of a renaissance. It just took the heat for 90210 and a bored network. The Eve character was a too slow burn and quite boring when she remained a heroine, but the umbrella story overall worked and when she finally lost her mind it was a good time.