Vee

I actually like the Martin/Dani bond. I think they could play it more because he comes off like the straight (don't!) man to her antics and has kind of a droll, amused reaction to her business while she gets to be kooky but fun with him. It helps that BC has seriously improved.

You want to watch a show that repeats its exposition and story points repeatedly? Watch Edge of Night, lol. Those folks love to sit around talking about the prophetic dreams April Scott had last month. I am enjoying EON 1980 immensely and it's a great show, but classical and at times awkward recapping was Henry Slesar's best friend some weeks.

Did Drew Q rape anybody? Is he a serial killer? Or is he just an ásshole? Because the latter doesn't mean he's irredeemable. If he's the only organic source of conflict currently on the show I'd still keep him around awhile, even if I do think any hopes of making him be a viable white hat/grey romantic lead with Nina a la last spring, etc. are done. But a good soap always needs a natural scoundrel to make trouble, same as Ava or Ric. Making him Shiloh with plastic surgery would be typical stupid-ass GH.

They feel like a horrific network note. And I get it. A show is going to need white faces on CBS Daytime. But there are so many better options on that front (starting with bringing on Pamela's family AFAIC, or Joey's). The instant Derek or Ashley turn up I start browsing online.

I'm just astonished you have a cast of a show like this where most of them seem to get along and don't hate each other's guts, lol. Melrose Place was the same way, bless them.

I've been pretty tough on the dialogue (in fact, I linked to it!) and some of the actors for a lotta weeks. I think Kat/Tomas is DOA regardless of the terrible actor playing Tomas. People are right there are no major new couples vs. established marriages. I also think the saga of Doug, Jon Lindstrom and the Golden Corral Casino is profoundly boring, though I do like Vanessa with Joey. I think Derek and Ashley are abominable. I could go on! But that's all typical soap fumbles, particularly a very new show. I don't think there's anything wrong with being heavily or harshly critical of elements of the show, because I have been. But getting into a bubble where we think the sturm und drang around here reflect the larger audience response just isn't true, at least not in the case of BTG and not so far. If you lived by the extreme polarity in this thread and grand declarations in this thread all but titled "Breaking My Silence", you'd think the show has to shape up or ship out by June. That's not happening. Or you'd think a huge bulk of the audience also hates Dani. Not happening. I am not saying we can't or shouldn't critique it, but I think assuming the wildly divergent range of SON takes on here speaks to the larger audience isn't a wise barometer. My primary issues are the very volatile dialogue, a few bum stories or repetitive cycles (Dani's spirals) and some of the dreadful actors. But all that can fix itself up. That is what I am banking on, frankly. Though I also haven't seen anything apocalyptically bad in the last few weeks (barring Derek/Ashley, and Tomas).

Lord, y'all are dramatic. I am a few days behind so I need to catch up, but I never thought this show was perfect. Nor did I say so, including in the first week which had some very rocky stuff lol. It is not that serious. I have been meaning to do a run-down on the larger program for a week or two but I've been preoccupied by IRL stuff. I will stick by what I've said at length before about my issue with the B&B brand of declarative/expository dialogue that may be out of the old Bell family school. I don't think it works here, especially with younger, greener actors. And I think there has been a sleepy period before sweeps which is also not unusual especially with a new soap. But I don't think there's much warranted to claim this show is either a) the apex peak of soap opera or b) collapsing inward, with the sky falling upon us. Neither is true! Again, not that serious. I judge each day as it comes and I can be pretty brutal and critical about what I don't like on BTG. But I also keep perspective about the show being very new and working itself out, and I think anyone assuming that the rest of the show's audience is a fraction as critical or fickle as what's in this thread is fooling themselves. It's stayed strong both on social media and in its demos, and I don't think it is going anywhere any time soon. Whether anyone wishes it would or not. As for the things I definitely want to see change or improve, I will try to catch up on more of them and discuss them if I get done with all the shít I am juggling IRL this week.

Song Sung Blue, starring Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson from the director of Dolemite is My Name, Hustle & Flow, Coming 2 America, etc. just got a Christmas release date. But it's worth bringing to our attention because it apparently also features OLTL's own Erika Slezak.

I don't remember any direct mention of when Anita's career ended. It is not a stretch for me to buy she dabbled in new jack swing like Aretha, Diana Ross, etc. as her music stardom wound down in the '80s or even early '90s.

Maybe instead of having to lie to ourselves or gaslight anyone, some of us just disagreed with you. Not that we have to justify ourselves to anyone who already acknowledged they couldn't even finish the second episode of the first week, two months ago. And frankly, the social media chatter and investment is much less critical of the show than any of us on this board.

Pretty much. And while I thought KS was actually okay as the wound-tight Kate in her early months, everything about her performance as Connie was totally embarrassing. But it's exactly the kind of campy, OTT 'tour de force' Frank and RC often loved. Until they got other stars (Maura West) and lost interest! Megan was wonderful as Kate but every time she's returned as Ghost Connie I've found her dreadful. In fairness the material is pretty bad.

Completely disagree.

Connie should never have existed.

The one good thing about that very late FOTH opening is that they did the beat with L&L's faces rising together at the end.

She's worse than all of them! Listen, people can feel however they want, but AFAIC Jordan has never had any personality including when Vinessa Antoine was in the role. She is a cipher who merely fills a plot space, she has no reason to be on canvas and it's only gotten worse with each actor. And then whenever people mention how bad TH is it's like 'oh, but she's so beautiful!' Yes, she's a beautiful woman. And I write but nobody's out here asking me to fly a passenger jet instead. I know my limits!

Not a chance that any of this is true. Jon Lindstrom is a dear friend of MVJ since GH, she personally wrote most of his defining material at that show and I believe he's said she sought him out for this part she wrote and created for him. Cady is also very close to her ex (Lindstrom) and ABC Daytime royalty. I do think Cady's role was a later addition and has rejiggered the positioning of the Vanessa character, but I don't think Pamela is a problem, just a character in search of a story. The problem white characters are Derek and Ashley, who do feel like a network requirement. While the gambling plot is silly and tedious to me, using JL is clearly a personal thing for MVJ. And the dumpy casino set is cheesy because it's just cheesy, not because it was thrown together last minute.

Vanessa is clearly in the Lucy Coe mold. MVJ wrote much of her and Kevin's material personally at GH. She's a comic character. I think it's a feature, not a bug. It works for me.

They are allegedly launching an Anita story at the end of the month, so I doubt Tunie's role will stay as it has. She has been more active in story lately. BTG has a very strong Twitter/social fan presence, which probably explains the demo numbers. It certainly has flaws and growing pains like any new soap but it also has people engaged, so however those issues work out I don't think it's going anywhere for awhile.

Murdering them both immediately would be fine by me. Jordan #3 and Dead Oscar are the two worst actors this show has ever seen.

Kat dressed like either Lois Lane in the '40s or something out of Batman 1966 is just a day ending in y.

Ranger wrote that, I didn't.

YouTube randos aren't for this thread.

This show is a very solid, classic episodic medical show - I think some critics realize this while others act like it is a major prestige revelation. It's not. In reality it is more a sort of neo-classical network TV for streaming - a kind of higher-end reversion to old form which I think we've just begun to see emerge (including, in a way, with Beyond the Gates) and will only see more of in TV/streaming going forward. Still, it's very well put together and I'm happy to see so many soap vets featured and doing great work. (Marci Miller is heartbreaking in Hour 8.) That said: Anyone who claims this is very different from ER is fooling themselves and needing to draw a pretentious distinction that isn't actually there. I am glad the show exists but Michael Crichton's widow is absolutely right to sue them, lol. Not only did they change the name and change Dr. Carter to Dr. Robby when they couldn't get the ER revival off the ground, but all the small talk, banter, side stories with patients, etc. are extremely similar to ER. It's ER with the hour-by-hour premise of 24, looser content restrictions, and that's it. That's why it's what I called neo-classical TV. But I am enjoying it a lot! And I am glad it's apparently making a new generation discover ER on social media.

I think the product placement already has and is a fun meme for a lot of the online social audience. Which I don't think is a bad thing, frankly. I don't think it's as much of a mark against it as, say, the Wanchai Ferry years. I'll pay money for someone to do a version of it. With the Febreze, too.

That goes back to the B&B school of dialogue for me. There's still too much exposition and grand pronouncements of the plot and character/social dynamics. Maybe it even goes back to very old school Bill Bell in some way, I don't know. I get why MVJ is employing that at CBS for a portion of that audience, but I cannot wait for the scripts to loosen up more.