Skylover

^You're right, I don't think the continuity of character backstories was a strength in the early years! At least it was entertaining then though

To me what is shocking about it is that viewers would have tuned in for a new episode of Guuiding Light and what they were seeing was nothing to do with the characters in the show at that time. I wouldn't have been shocked if, say, it was revealed at the end of the episode that it was all a character's dream, i.e. that all the people they knew were in a soap or something, but the fact that it was in the show rather than a specially commissioned documentary type episode out of the show is what's surprising. But then I guess the UK soaps do try to stick to some consistency more than the US soaps?

Didn't it ruin the illusion of the show? I can't imagine an English or Aussie soap doing it.

Thanks Carl. That's really interesting. It's great to have such an old article dug up to see how parts of the show were being received at that point. I just wish Neighbours had articles of that size written about it these days

Thanks Carl. It seems really bizarre. Did it count as an actual episode of the show or was it a special documentary episode? Was it a dream sequence or did a character dream up the scenario?

Hi, I was just looking at some stuff about the 70th Anniversary episode of GL and it seems to be some kind of parody of its start? I don't get it...?

Right, gonna continue my reply now... I totally agree about Robert. I've thought for a really long time that they should do something with him but I think they're afraid of going there because they want to bury that sensationalist era but it would make that whole era come to life if they didn't just ignore it, and actually tried to to develop the show using that turbulent history. I'd love it if Robert came back for a cameo role, or a few cameo roles and Paul went to visit him in prison. You're right, it would enhance the Robinson family by allowing them to have more presence, and it would be interesting to see how it would affect Andrew and Paul's relationship. I was incredibly annoyed (but not surprised) when Andrew came back, and loads of things were just swept under the carpet. It seemed like they were planning to do something big with his character. All the trailers made him a 'bad boy' and I thought the fact that Paul had been out of his life for so long would come up in the storyline. I'm not talking bombs/psychopath stuff a la Robert but I'd have loved a two-hander (yeah right, this is Neighbours LOL) between Paul and Andrew, with Andrew asking Paul why he'd made no effort to see him since coming out of prison etc. I was hoping for some emotionally-driven material, you could see at first that Andrew resented Paul for not being in his life but nothing has come of it since. I was hoping that Andrew would explain how angry he was that so much had happened in Paul's life, such as Robert killing an entire family and he had to read about it in a newspaper (for example) as well as the fact that Cameron had been killed yet Paul had made no attempt to contact him. Bringing in Amy is another idea that I quite like, but at the same time I also like how she's a blank canvas and they can sort of mine her to be whatever they like in the future. Perhaps once most of Paul's other family has gone then she can be brought in but obviously there is potential with Andrew still being there although I'd rather the Robert arc be resolved or developed before they turn their attention to Amy. I don't know why they're so against bringing in Lou's family but it has destroyed him. I think he went downhill dramatically ever since they paired him off with the Parker family as it made no sense whatsoever. At least he had Harold before but since going part-time Lou is literally crashing and burning as a character. People have said the Parkers should have been brought in as Lou's family which I agree with (in theory if it was all different actors being brought in rather than the ones who ended up being the Parkers)! I have to agree with you about Christina too, she was hardly an iconic character (despite some people arguing that she is too memorable to be re-cast) so I think it would be worth re-casting her. I'd also like Gail to be brought back as she was Paul's true love and apparently Fiona Corke has been up for a permanent return for years. As for Rhys, I've read comments on Facebook that Rhys' mum is disabled and how cliched is that - is that meant to make us like him? People thought it was predictable storylining but I thought it was quite clever. I still wouldn't regard him as a favourite but he has certainly improved, lots of people have compared him to Darcy. You've hit the nail on the head with the development story - if I don't care about Toadie then I won't care about the development. But if it was a favourite character I still don't think I would enjoy it because there's nothing exciting or well-written about it. If the outcome wasn't so predictable then I think it would be more enjoyable, and that's without taking into consideation that it's been done 3 times before! I did suggest Angie returning and trying to get Sonya and Toadie to marry, but I agree that they shouldn't go down that route just yet. I still see the potential in bringing Angie back for a bit of light relief though. I like that Sonya and Toadie are a modern couple, plus if Eve ever does decide to leave, even though it would be a huge loss it wouldn't feel like such a huge blow for Toadie if they weren't married. That seems a bit strange after typing it but it does become a bit tedious when long-term soap characters have four or five marriages just because they've been in the show for so long. I think it's surprising (but good planning) that Janine in EastEnders wasn't rushed into having a baby. Has there ever been a soap character who's been on screen for over ten years without having a baby? Janine is the only person I can recall. Haha, you are right, I meant flour, but I thought it was spelt 'flour' as opposed to 'flower' or is that the American spelling I'd love to see the Kapoors celebrating Diwali, but I doubt it. The makers are probably so keen to make them seem like a 'normal' family that they'll probably sweep most cultural things under the carpet although I hope that isn't the case. They shouldn't just neglect the family's culture in order for them to be treated like a normal family. As for HD, I don't have a problem with that - I don't like the film effect and HD are the same thing. If you'd seen the change from the BBC to Five you'd know what I was talking about I think, the change from the way the show was aired from the BBC to Five is astounding. I think HD is something different entirely. When the show was aired on the BBC you felt more involved with the action (sorry if I'm repeating myself) - by feeling involved with the action everything seemed more realistic. A soon as it went to Five everything seemed distant and cold, even the audio made everything seem like it was a TV show rather than real life. If you watch EastEnders in HD you still feelm involved with the action and the production standards are a hell of a lot better, whereas with Neighbours the film effect has lost everything that made the show with it is. There was an outcry amongst fans when it happened in 2008 (I guess you'll know if you read NFans or PB) and I'm not surprised a lot of viewers have been lost as a result. You're right about the pool scenes, I don't see why it's necessary to portray it being Winter or Summer but I guess that's Bower's plan to make it seem more realistic. I actually really like the production standards on Home and Away. I know at points it can be overly bright in the Diner but that bright feel is much more inviting than the way Neighbours is presented. I'm not sure about the writing yet, Ben. At the moment I'm trying to focus on my final year, but next month I will hopefully be able to spend more time writing and figuring out Final Draft! I did see the Top Ten, I'm not sure what I think. People seem to be under the mis-apprehension that Mark and Kate were this huge couple because Mark's final episode was voted No.2, but I think it's more because the episode itself was excellent rather than the couple. Carl - Thanks for posting that interview with Jasek and Hardy. There's another one which can be found ]here I can't say I'm overly impressed on first impressions. There are no words:

Nice thread, Carl. It seems that people think the Brannings have taken over from the Mitchells as the main EE family. I tend to agree but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. It is true though that the family is built on sensationalism and it's almost as if they've unrealistically explored so many avenues already. To me the Brannings are one of the few good things Kirkwood has done in his era. Bringing in Cora and Rainie on a permanent basis has enriched story potential and it was badly needed. I also think Lauren's characterisation has been realistic. As a result of everything in her family life she's turned to drink. So I guess at least they've used those crappy, sensational stories for a purpose now. Abi is the weak link for me. It annoys me because even now I read on DS posters saying that it was unnecessary to re-cast Lauren but I totally disagree. Jacqueline Jossa has been a God send for the Branning family and Lauren actually feels like a character now whereas she didn't before. People have said that the first actress would have adequately played out the scenes supporting Lauren at the hospital through her cancer storyline, is that some sort of joke? Hopefully now they'll develop the Brannings in a more realistic way after how they've been storylined recently. I still don't think Lucy needed to be re-cast though. Melissa Suffield wasn't an amazing actress but she was good enough and I think they should have allowed her time to develop as an actress simply because of her likeness to Cindy and believability in the role. That history meant it was worthwhile perhaps making Melissa to take an extended break from work and then re-instate her on the basis that she had to stop going out on the town underage. What is so wrong about that? Putting the BBC's reputation into disrepute?

This Morning interview with Pam St. Clement

I don't watch Emmerdale so feel like I shouldn't be posting in this thread, but does Matthew Wolfenden not get much screen-time? You are right, he is very nice-looking, it's a shame if he's wasted. I can't get into Emmerdale, the production standards seem terrible - it doesn't have a light feel that draws you in. I imagine it's probably better than most of EE at the moment though.

Yes, I was aware of that but it is interesting though! Also a notable feud, the actors behind Rosie and Frazer didn't get on which is surprising given their onscreen chemistry.

I love Sharon. I would rather Kat and Alfie left so that Sharon could run the Vic again. I don't trust Kirkwood to do her return justice though.

Pam apparently criticised the amount of adultery and violence portrayed in EE and said that the audience used to be gripped by simple stories like Arthur stealing from the Xmas Club fund but that would be dismissed these days on the basis that it wouldn't be 'gripping' enough. She has got a point and all the soaps could do with taking this on board but EE in particular. It is why I enjoy Neighbours so much more than EE because its premise is a lot more basic. I watched that episode last night, poor Pat It was really sad seeing her drinking at The Vic for the last time, it really is the end of an era. Someone from DS has posted a thread with some links to great Pat moments on YouTube, it's worth a look at. I love all the 80s Pat and Janine stuff!

Yeah, for some reason the retconning of those characters doesn't bother me much at all. You're right about Jade. When she arrived I thought it was fairly obvious that a line was going to be thrown in about Jade having a different father to Sonya or something about the fact that she is quite obviously of Asian heritage. I am quite appalled that TPTB let that one slip - you'd have thought someone running a professional operation would have noticed this quite obvious problem? But then, this is Neighbours... I did vote for Harold's return in the Top Soap Moments, and I did enjoy it on the whole, but I do think it could have been so much more. I would have liked it to have been mentioned that Harold was Kate and Sophie's Great Uncle, but I suppose the fact it wasn't mentioned means they can forget this connection further down the line. But considering at this point in time Kate and Sophie are 'Ramsays' it should have come up. It also annoys me that we've never seen Lou mention it considering how close he was to Madge. You have to wonder wht the actors think in these situations. Why hasn't Gemma Pranita or Eve Morey pointed out that they clearly couldn't be full-blood sisters? Are Ian Smith and Tom Oliver aware of Madge's connections to the kids and do they think it's ridiculous this hasn't been mentioned? So many questions that we'll never know the answers to... interesting point about trying to recreate the heydey.I guess you've got a point but personally I would be surprised if Susan Bower watched it in those days. She probably just thought it would provide some conflict between most of the long-stnading cast members in the show's 25th year and experimented a bit. She failed LOL. It's a real shame about the Karl/Susan and Jim story because it had so much potential. Nearly all of the legends/long-term characters have been tainted in some way on Neighbours, even characters that are long gone such as Helen who supposedly abandoned her illegitimate granddaughter. I've loved the Mal/Jade affair but a lot of fan have said they're struggling to understand Mal's motivation and would like Catherine to return as well. I don't agree with that, I quite like that aspect of the affair - that Catherine is half way across the world - because it shows how easily Mal can forget about her and carry on what he's doing with Jade. I would love for Mal and Catherine to return next year. You're right about Karl and Susan. Perhaps it's more important for kids to be there this time because characters over 40+ don't have personalities anymore and need to pander to the younger generations so they wouldn't functon on their own. A spoiler released says that there are some previous characters returning; the nature in which it was written makes me think it could be Mal and Catherine returning but another poster has suggested that it could also be Libby and Ben (recast). I can't imagine who else could return unless the returnees are not actually linked - i.e. Angie and Boy to return for their respective family members. Sorry, Ben, I'm afraid I'm very fickle when it comes to the characters I like and that has got me into trouble in the past. What it comes down to though is that I love Neighbours so much that I only want the very best actors on the show so when a poor performance comes through I get annoyed by that character. For me the big emotions/dramatic scenes are the test for any character/actress and the ones that carry off dramatic and comedic material with ease are the ones I like. For example, you always know, that no matter what the material, you'll always get good scenes from Jade, Sonya, Susan etc. Tash, Andrew etc not so sure. I used to love Andrew when he joined the cast but then I easily fall for the good looking young guys in soap Yeah, I'm very fickle when it comes to characters. I HATED that scene with Tash getting the email of her mother's death certificate. Did I mention it before? It was SO insulting and possibly the most unrealistic moment of all time. No birth/marriage/death certificates are ever emailed, seriously, what a joke. The writers shouldn't just assume that everything is done online and actually check first. I think the lack of family is a huge problem and I think it could lead to the show's demise if they don't sort it out. To be continued...

I think the intetion was for this to be a character led story but I don't think it has been. All of the characters have acted stupidly which has ruined my enjoyment of the storyline. Zainab has been totally ruined for me. I hated that line 'Will you rescue me again Masood?' and Masood just does what he's told despite how disloyal and ridiculous Zainab has been. I don't believe that she would have split from Masood, neither that she would marry Yusef again. The plot would have been so much stronger had Yusef just become a part of the famil simply because of Afia and Tamwar's marriage. They could still have had him manipulating Zainab and drugging her etc, and this massive finale could have happened but it would have been in character. I agree that it seems like they don't knowwhat to do with Amira. Her return has been a total waste of time sadly. It would be nice to see Carol and Denise as friends - I don't actually recall them having a scene together which is a shame. Denise is a warmer version of Carol, well 2010 Carol onwards. I think they should have kept on Jordan and perhaps re-cast him. I don't like the Patrick/Kim/Denise household as it somehow feels like that soap cliche of characters who have nothing to do being shoved with others. Patrick should have left instead of Charlie I think.

Why do you think killing off Tamwar would have been an easy way out? I think there's a lot of mileage left in the character but it would certainly have put a spanner in the works. I'm not saying it should have been done for that short-term effect but how many times does a soap have to bring in a baddie, then predictable kill them off and them to be the only one killed off. You could tell as soon as you heard about the fire that Yusef would be the only one. It's just run-of-the-mill OTT soap plot. It's definitely where they're going wrong. However, I do think the actress who plays Afia has done a fantastic job portraying how grief-stricken she is. She's an asset.

I think in the main, it has been terrible. It' all just so predictable. If they'd done something like kill off Tamwar, then it would have been gripping. But you just knew that Yusef would be the one to die so it rendered everything else pointless, really. I'm looking forward to Pat's exit although it does surprise me how people say how much of a legend she is etc etc when she's only really been a supporting character for the best part of ten years. Everything comes across as very gimmicky at the moment. Hopefully things will improve in the new year but I won't get my hopes up!

I bought Final Draft 8 today, Ben.

Right, mammoth post in store now... The second half has been a lot more character driven but I'm not sure if I preferred the second half over the first half overall. Although the second half was very character-driven, I think by that point I'd lost a lot of passion for the show which is gradually fading away as I see the show become worse and worse. It's nice to see the characters being a priority, but the small cast undermines everything; all the characters are over-exposed and storylines which are meant t be good turn out boring. The earlier half of the year was superior IMO because it had more characters in it, but by the time they'd left the show just felt desserted. Chris, Kyle and Jade have all been great characters, but I feel like the show has got good characters and stories but it somehow isn't enough. I just loved the Sonya/Callum story at the beginning of the year. A lot of fans are unhappy with how the backstories were changed but I personally feel that the revelation that Sonya is Callum's mum is actually far more believable than Karl and Susan splitting up again. The Sonya story gave us so many brilliant scenes, and Eve shone throughout. Perhaps it was the focus on Sonya's character which made this part of the year so special for me. So many scenes stand out - her chat with Jade on the couch at no.30, Callum telling her on the couch that story of how his mum stole money from his piggybank. At the same time there was other brilliant stuff, loads of great comedy, Libby bringing Lucas over 'for dinner', Rebecca's scene revealing to Paul how she felt that he'd succeeded in bringing her down to his level. I don't particularly see Harold's return as a highlight. Kyle and Jade's romance has been the highlight of the year for me, but even then, there's been parts where I've got bored due to over-exposure of the characters. There have been a lot of times where it feels like the story isn't moving forward at all. The Kyle/Jade and Michael/Tash plots have been amazing in parts. Tash finding Emilia, Helena's ghost, the pictures of Helena the Teen Beauty Queen™. I think Karl and Susan's story has been a total disaster. It's mainly the tail-end of the season where things started to pick up for me. Perhaps from about September onwards or whenever Malcolm and Jade started their affair. The Michael/Tash thing picked up a hell of a lot when Tash found out the truth and Val did a geat scene telling Chris that she was responsible for her mother's death. Unfortunately the episodes before Val and Sandy did a terrible revelation scene. I can't see Natasha working when Michael's gone. While most of the stories have picked up come November, the Karl and Susan plot has just got worse really. There were some great flashbacks to The Slap™ and their fight in the street when Susan thought Karl was having it off with Jade, bu we still have no idea why Susan wants to separate. The Kate/Sophie/Noah stuff as well as the text on the screen has undermined the second half of the season for me. I still can't accept that Neighbours has no proper families in it and that is ruining my enjoyment of the show. When you look back, the show has always flourished when it has established families. In 2004, we had the Kennedys, Scullys, Hoylands, Bishops etc the show just feels like a vital element os missing. The way Paul flits around annoys me no end, and Lou literally just says lines now he may as well be an extra. Rhys has come a long way. I guess you could say he's an another example of the character driven direction they've gone for. Working in medicine and his mum is paralysed. I think it's great to see why he is so motivated to work his way up the ladder an I felt really sorry for him when he was denied entry to the surgical programme. As for the development story, do you not think it's terrible? It's by far the worst story for a long time and I find myself just falling into a coma while watching it. I don't see what the point of it is? I don't really care about Toadie as a character anymore, and watching him struggling at work isn't something I would consider entertaining. It's jsut eating up screen time and is another exmple of why the small cast doesn't work. Had there been say another 5 characters in the cast at the time, not all screen time would have been to associated with the development and a wider variety of (hopefully interesting) stories could have been told. I guess it's meant to show the effect it's going to have on the family but I couldn't care less. Bring back Angie I say! She'd cause some friction and I'd love to see her trying to get Sonya and Toadie to marry. I guess you're right about Callum, I think the kindle/book comments were just technology being shoved in our faces rather than having any substance. I rolled my eyes at that. I also way prefer books to ebooks so I was on Susan's side! I think Jordan is a fairly poor actor - I don't know if I'm repeating myself now but there was recently a comedy plotline involving Andrew getting a tattoo at schoolies and Jordan's portrayal just failed to evoke any emtion from me whatsoever. Considering Neighbours can do comedy quite well (or used to, at least) it wasn't very good. The writing wasn't too bad, I think another actor could have carried it off better. He's also really monotone a lot of the time and the accent bugs me because I don't see why it was necessary for the writers to edit Anrew's backstory just so Jordan could play the role. If he wants to be a serious actor, he needs to be able to master different accents because I don't think he'll get roles using his natural accent. April in Home and Away originally comes from Canada and has a very strong accent, but Rhiannon puts on an Australian accent and you can barely notice. Very interesting what you say about friendships. Now you've come to mention it that is a huge issue which needs to be addressedand maybe that's why the show falls flat a lot of the time. There are good characters but when essential elements are missing it's hard for it to all come together. I guess it's like baking a chocolate cake without eggs - the chocolates still good but you can't make the end product without those essential ingredients. Someon pointed out the other day that the cast is very male-heavy at the moment and it is true that the balance is all wrong. The Kapoors should be good hopefuly and I am glad they're an ethnic family too, but it being a family of three kind of defeats the object. What we need is a family similar to the Scullys, 3 kids, or even perhaps the Timmins. 3 kids at east with some off-screen and a grandmother or grandad. I am sure that if they did this the show would be brilliant again. It's hard to explain why Neighbours doesn't have that spark that it once did. It was that spark the made it so special, which was achieved through a variety of very specific things which come together and make magic. The film effect needs to go, the dialogue and sound has become distant since the show's move to Five, on the BBC you felt involved with the action, the sunny/warm/inviting aspect has gone, perhaps also linked to this visual change. The dark sets need to be revamped but it looks like they're doing something about that if you read PB depsite the fact the logisitcs of the sets don't make sense. And adding a family likke the Timmins to keep the show fresh, lively and to bring some energy and shake things up would be a good start.

Thanks Huntress I loved seeing the promo pictures for GZSZ. I'm upset that Zack doesn't appear in them! Nice to see that the show is getting a new regular. Who are your favourite GZSZ characters? Emily is great, I really like Tayfun, but to me it seems like Dominic, Jo and Jasmin are some of the best characters. Katrin is ok but like I said before, she's a bit cold. I might have to start watching Verbotene Liebe. From what I've heard it seems it's the German soap with the biggest international audience of the main soaps, even my French flatmate watches it with subtitles!

Janine is, hands down, the best soap character of all time. The only character who comes close is Sally Fletcher from Home and Away, for me.

Thanks for the info, Huntress. I've still been watching GZSZ. I really do love it. I've noticed how certain characters seem to feature for weeks on end, while other characters don't appear for a long time. It took half a month for me to see Zack again after the incident where Lilli threw up on him! He is so very attractive Meanwhile, this show is really well-written. Although Emilie and Thune getting together seems really unrealistic, the characters have had so much air time and you really see the connection build between them. I don't like the separation between the two older characters (I forget their names) the woman just comes across as cold, and I was very surprised when she had sex with Tanja's dad in the toilets of the club! I don't understand the love triangle between Zack/Tanja/Vince. At the end of the episode I just watched (22/11) it seemed like she was leading both of them on! Dominic's recovery from the kidnapping has been really interesting to watch, and realistic too. I can't stand Patrick though.

Thanks for posting that scene, Y&RWorldTurner. I'm glad you like the videos, Carl. I'm tempted to get hold of the beginning years of EastEnders, as many fans really think they were brilliant seasons. And it wouldn't even take that long to get through them seeing as there were only two episodes per week! That was a lovely scene between Pauline and Paul, did they share a lot of scenes in the early years? As I'm too young to remember that era, I only recall the 2000s onwards and those characters had nothing to do with each other. What's the story between Wendy Richard and the BBC? Why was there bad blood between them? I heard somewhere that Pauline tured into a grouch because the writers intended her to turn into her mother but I think they went too far and just made her nasty. For me Ian represents the basis of the entire show at the moment, and not just because he's an original cast member. I downloaded some early 2007/6 episodes from when Pauline died, but it was all dominated by Sonia thinking she'd killed her I'm ashamed to admit it, but I fancy Jake Wood

I got a fan card from Shane Withington a few weeks ago. He plasys John Palmer. My collection is going strong, there's only a few from the current cast I don't have, including Gina, Leah, Roo and I think that might be it.

Is the theme tune for that video real? If so, I never realised how awful Emmerdale's theme tune used to be. It's like something a high school student is playing on a keyboard.