Skylover

I'm loving this storyline with Ben at the moment against all odds. I love Ben.

Are you going to buy the 1985 DVDs, Ben? I've bought the first two and I'm really enjoying them. 1985 seems to be a forgotten year to a degree and because there's not much talk about it, I was expecting it to be quite rubbish but I've been pleasantly surprised and I have actually loved the first 15 episodes I've seen so far. Scott, in particular, played by Darius Perkins, seems a wonderful character. I actually prefer his portrayal to Jason's.

I'll have a look Carl, I am curious. I think I'm gonna stop venturing into the DS forums, the amount of crap posted there is ridiclous, I have made my fair share of joke/silly threads, but the amount of support for Derek on there sickens me. He seems to have quite a large fanbase, I feel like I'm living in a parallell universe because I literally cannot comprehend why anyone would like him

What are the issues between Steve and Lucy? In an interview on This Morning in 2010, Lucy admitted that she was axed from the show in 2003. I've just read online that Lucy has allegedly had lesbian flings?

P.S. I just tried watching Friday's episode and it turns out I wasn't missing anything. A massive story for Jack and I switched off straight away. He's one of the worst characters in soap at the moment, long overdue an axing, how can good characters depart when deadwood like him stay?

I want to see Lisa return to EastEnders. Her or Kate. I know some people thought Lisa was a bland character but Lucy is a great actress and bringing back Lisa could be a good move if they let her actually have fun for once. I wasn't a fan of Lynne. She was very annoying and bland. I agree with the idea of Paul being underrated though. I thought he was great, shame he got killed off

It's interesting to read your thoughts. Carl - I think you're right that Kirkwood doesn't deserve the hate he gets, it can become OTT and unnecessary, I guess he is responsible for the direction the show takes which is why it's difficult not to blame him. There are definitely things other than Janine that Kirkwood has done that I didn't mention. For a start I think Lauren is a completely fascinating character and the recast has been wonderful. Bringing in Janine's grandmother was also wonderful, though I would have liked her to have stayed for longer. I don't necessarily agree with Janine being left millions in her will though, somehow it doesn't sit right with me. You're right, having David back was great for the show, not really a character I was too bothered about, but I know he is a massive favourite so it was great for the show. I agree with you Carl, that there were certain aspects of Santer's era that were unwatchable, Darren being the father of Heather's baby etc, and it was very plot driven during his tenure but I still prefer that era to Kirkwood's overall. I'm finding it difficult to get my point across because I've lost so much passion for the show that I find it irritating to have to bring up the reasons why because it makes me frustrated with the state of the show. I've switched off totally now and the reason was solely Derek Branning. I can 't stomach him. I literally feel like watching him would be a total waste of my life - what's he going to do? Threaten people, bully people, everyone's going to do what he wants, despite the fact he doesn't look scary whatsoever. I literally cannot comprehend the producers decision to bring in Derek - what does he bring to the show? A rivalry/alliance with Phil is something I couldn't give a hoot about. Rather than bringing in another pointless character who will get away with murder and not get their comeuppance, how about sorting out the character they've already got who fits this description, i.e. Phil. Phil is a legendary character but he just makes me cringe these days. Someone here posted a link to a thread on DS about the future of the Mitchells, well I personally feel that Sam needs to be brought back (played by Kim Medcalf) - Phil lacks chemistry with any of his family members, he and Shirley are one of the worst soap couples of all time, they don't have any chemistry and are mis-matched, she sticks up for him no matter what low act he does, it's just not right. I'd rather he was with Kate again. I don't think he should leave, but if Sam or Kate or someone came back I think his more endearing side could emerge again, being with Shirley seems to bring out the worst in him. Talking of the Mitchells leads me to another point - people being 'family' when they're not family. Jay 'Mitchell' is one of the worst ideas they've ever had, I hate that soap cliche of families taking in randoms, I hated it when they did it on Neighbours but it's more annoying on EE because the characters actually act like they're family. The Kim/Denise/Patrick trio winds me up no end. I also think that even though many of the storylines were plot-driven in Santer's era, they were character-driven at the same time - Syed and Christian's relationship, Zainab's behaviour totally fitted in with her character, she cares what people think about her and has strict morals, therefore she wouldn't have reacted well to the news that Syed is gay and I think, yes, it was a dramatic storyline, but character-driven. Well, on Zainab's part at least. I know Christian and Syed's build up to their relationship could have been better. However, another thing I've liked during Kirkwood's era is Ian and Mandy's relationship - I find that fascinating. My main gripe though, as I wrote on DS, is that there are too many 'antagonists' or 'villains' - Michael was supposed to be a villain when he came in, now I don't know what he is. I think EE just needs more 'nice' characters who are likeable. I dislike nearly everybody thanks to the writing and that never happened during Santer's era. The Yusef/Zainab storyline is one of the worst in years. If there have been any plot driven storylines recently, that's it - the moat predictable, crappy storyline you could imagine - everyone knew how it was going to end, and like they've pressed the reset button, Zainab and Masood get back together like nothing has ever happened, like the story has been erased from the history of the show. Zainab has a lot of explaining to do for her actions but Masood, like a fool has not questioned any of her horrific behaviour. That is unrealistic because the man would want answers. Why does the show also have this obsession with couples being unhappy too? Kat and Alfie, Ricky and Bianca, don't even get me started on the Whitney/Tyler/Fatboy triangle, is that supposed to be entertaining? I can't even follow it anymore because it's so boring and I hate Whitney as a result of her selfish, slutty behaviour. I do agree it's great to have Kat and Alfie back, but I don't know if I'd rather they never returned. They are the second reason after Derek why I've stopped watching. I literally can't stomach them anymore at all, they are so despressing I'd rather watch the shopping channels. They have been universally ruined. Hardly anyone likes them anymore, it was totally unnecessary for Michael to be the father of her baby. Their stories don't make sense anymore. They left in 2005 both blissfully happy, and return to have their baby swapped (I don't have a problem with that) but it seems as though they've fallen out of love with each other and constantly wish they could get a divorce. I know that's not the case but if you watched on a casual basis you could be forgiven for thinking that. P.S. I worry for Sharon. It's the wrong time for her to be coming back. I'm going to be devastated if she has to share any scenes with Derek Branning which I'm guessing will be the case. I really hope they don't ruin her by assocation with the dislikeable cast.

I totally understand the Kirkwood bashing, I'd like to know why you think it isn't justified, Carl, as I do respect your opinion. For me the show has become unwatychable in many ways. A lot of people seem to have a problem with Santer's era, but it was a lot better than the show currently is IMO. The main things for me are that: - he's ruined Kat and Alfie. I dread them appearing in an episode together because they're so dreary and depressing these days. - very few of his new characters have worked. - he brought in Derek Branning (panto villain with no purpose, cringeworthy and pointless) - he has made nearly all characters unlikeable The only good thing I can think of is the fact that Janine is finally a brilliant character again - I think she was trashed under Santer.

^You're right, I don't think the continuity of character backstories was a strength in the early years! At least it was entertaining then though

To me what is shocking about it is that viewers would have tuned in for a new episode of Guuiding Light and what they were seeing was nothing to do with the characters in the show at that time. I wouldn't have been shocked if, say, it was revealed at the end of the episode that it was all a character's dream, i.e. that all the people they knew were in a soap or something, but the fact that it was in the show rather than a specially commissioned documentary type episode out of the show is what's surprising. But then I guess the UK soaps do try to stick to some consistency more than the US soaps?

Didn't it ruin the illusion of the show? I can't imagine an English or Aussie soap doing it.

Thanks Carl. That's really interesting. It's great to have such an old article dug up to see how parts of the show were being received at that point. I just wish Neighbours had articles of that size written about it these days

Thanks Carl. It seems really bizarre. Did it count as an actual episode of the show or was it a special documentary episode? Was it a dream sequence or did a character dream up the scenario?

Hi, I was just looking at some stuff about the 70th Anniversary episode of GL and it seems to be some kind of parody of its start? I don't get it...?

Right, gonna continue my reply now... I totally agree about Robert. I've thought for a really long time that they should do something with him but I think they're afraid of going there because they want to bury that sensationalist era but it would make that whole era come to life if they didn't just ignore it, and actually tried to to develop the show using that turbulent history. I'd love it if Robert came back for a cameo role, or a few cameo roles and Paul went to visit him in prison. You're right, it would enhance the Robinson family by allowing them to have more presence, and it would be interesting to see how it would affect Andrew and Paul's relationship. I was incredibly annoyed (but not surprised) when Andrew came back, and loads of things were just swept under the carpet. It seemed like they were planning to do something big with his character. All the trailers made him a 'bad boy' and I thought the fact that Paul had been out of his life for so long would come up in the storyline. I'm not talking bombs/psychopath stuff a la Robert but I'd have loved a two-hander (yeah right, this is Neighbours LOL) between Paul and Andrew, with Andrew asking Paul why he'd made no effort to see him since coming out of prison etc. I was hoping for some emotionally-driven material, you could see at first that Andrew resented Paul for not being in his life but nothing has come of it since. I was hoping that Andrew would explain how angry he was that so much had happened in Paul's life, such as Robert killing an entire family and he had to read about it in a newspaper (for example) as well as the fact that Cameron had been killed yet Paul had made no attempt to contact him. Bringing in Amy is another idea that I quite like, but at the same time I also like how she's a blank canvas and they can sort of mine her to be whatever they like in the future. Perhaps once most of Paul's other family has gone then she can be brought in but obviously there is potential with Andrew still being there although I'd rather the Robert arc be resolved or developed before they turn their attention to Amy. I don't know why they're so against bringing in Lou's family but it has destroyed him. I think he went downhill dramatically ever since they paired him off with the Parker family as it made no sense whatsoever. At least he had Harold before but since going part-time Lou is literally crashing and burning as a character. People have said the Parkers should have been brought in as Lou's family which I agree with (in theory if it was all different actors being brought in rather than the ones who ended up being the Parkers)! I have to agree with you about Christina too, she was hardly an iconic character (despite some people arguing that she is too memorable to be re-cast) so I think it would be worth re-casting her. I'd also like Gail to be brought back as she was Paul's true love and apparently Fiona Corke has been up for a permanent return for years. As for Rhys, I've read comments on Facebook that Rhys' mum is disabled and how cliched is that - is that meant to make us like him? People thought it was predictable storylining but I thought it was quite clever. I still wouldn't regard him as a favourite but he has certainly improved, lots of people have compared him to Darcy. You've hit the nail on the head with the development story - if I don't care about Toadie then I won't care about the development. But if it was a favourite character I still don't think I would enjoy it because there's nothing exciting or well-written about it. If the outcome wasn't so predictable then I think it would be more enjoyable, and that's without taking into consideation that it's been done 3 times before! I did suggest Angie returning and trying to get Sonya and Toadie to marry, but I agree that they shouldn't go down that route just yet. I still see the potential in bringing Angie back for a bit of light relief though. I like that Sonya and Toadie are a modern couple, plus if Eve ever does decide to leave, even though it would be a huge loss it wouldn't feel like such a huge blow for Toadie if they weren't married. That seems a bit strange after typing it but it does become a bit tedious when long-term soap characters have four or five marriages just because they've been in the show for so long. I think it's surprising (but good planning) that Janine in EastEnders wasn't rushed into having a baby. Has there ever been a soap character who's been on screen for over ten years without having a baby? Janine is the only person I can recall. Haha, you are right, I meant flour, but I thought it was spelt 'flour' as opposed to 'flower' or is that the American spelling I'd love to see the Kapoors celebrating Diwali, but I doubt it. The makers are probably so keen to make them seem like a 'normal' family that they'll probably sweep most cultural things under the carpet although I hope that isn't the case. They shouldn't just neglect the family's culture in order for them to be treated like a normal family. As for HD, I don't have a problem with that - I don't like the film effect and HD are the same thing. If you'd seen the change from the BBC to Five you'd know what I was talking about I think, the change from the way the show was aired from the BBC to Five is astounding. I think HD is something different entirely. When the show was aired on the BBC you felt more involved with the action (sorry if I'm repeating myself) - by feeling involved with the action everything seemed more realistic. A soon as it went to Five everything seemed distant and cold, even the audio made everything seem like it was a TV show rather than real life. If you watch EastEnders in HD you still feelm involved with the action and the production standards are a hell of a lot better, whereas with Neighbours the film effect has lost everything that made the show with it is. There was an outcry amongst fans when it happened in 2008 (I guess you'll know if you read NFans or PB) and I'm not surprised a lot of viewers have been lost as a result. You're right about the pool scenes, I don't see why it's necessary to portray it being Winter or Summer but I guess that's Bower's plan to make it seem more realistic. I actually really like the production standards on Home and Away. I know at points it can be overly bright in the Diner but that bright feel is much more inviting than the way Neighbours is presented. I'm not sure about the writing yet, Ben. At the moment I'm trying to focus on my final year, but next month I will hopefully be able to spend more time writing and figuring out Final Draft! I did see the Top Ten, I'm not sure what I think. People seem to be under the mis-apprehension that Mark and Kate were this huge couple because Mark's final episode was voted No.2, but I think it's more because the episode itself was excellent rather than the couple. Carl - Thanks for posting that interview with Jasek and Hardy. There's another one which can be found ]here I can't say I'm overly impressed on first impressions. There are no words:

Nice thread, Carl. It seems that people think the Brannings have taken over from the Mitchells as the main EE family. I tend to agree but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. It is true though that the family is built on sensationalism and it's almost as if they've unrealistically explored so many avenues already. To me the Brannings are one of the few good things Kirkwood has done in his era. Bringing in Cora and Rainie on a permanent basis has enriched story potential and it was badly needed. I also think Lauren's characterisation has been realistic. As a result of everything in her family life she's turned to drink. So I guess at least they've used those crappy, sensational stories for a purpose now. Abi is the weak link for me. It annoys me because even now I read on DS posters saying that it was unnecessary to re-cast Lauren but I totally disagree. Jacqueline Jossa has been a God send for the Branning family and Lauren actually feels like a character now whereas she didn't before. People have said that the first actress would have adequately played out the scenes supporting Lauren at the hospital through her cancer storyline, is that some sort of joke? Hopefully now they'll develop the Brannings in a more realistic way after how they've been storylined recently. I still don't think Lucy needed to be re-cast though. Melissa Suffield wasn't an amazing actress but she was good enough and I think they should have allowed her time to develop as an actress simply because of her likeness to Cindy and believability in the role. That history meant it was worthwhile perhaps making Melissa to take an extended break from work and then re-instate her on the basis that she had to stop going out on the town underage. What is so wrong about that? Putting the BBC's reputation into disrepute?

This Morning interview with Pam St. Clement

I don't watch Emmerdale so feel like I shouldn't be posting in this thread, but does Matthew Wolfenden not get much screen-time? You are right, he is very nice-looking, it's a shame if he's wasted. I can't get into Emmerdale, the production standards seem terrible - it doesn't have a light feel that draws you in. I imagine it's probably better than most of EE at the moment though.

Yes, I was aware of that but it is interesting though! Also a notable feud, the actors behind Rosie and Frazer didn't get on which is surprising given their onscreen chemistry.

I love Sharon. I would rather Kat and Alfie left so that Sharon could run the Vic again. I don't trust Kirkwood to do her return justice though.

Pam apparently criticised the amount of adultery and violence portrayed in EE and said that the audience used to be gripped by simple stories like Arthur stealing from the Xmas Club fund but that would be dismissed these days on the basis that it wouldn't be 'gripping' enough. She has got a point and all the soaps could do with taking this on board but EE in particular. It is why I enjoy Neighbours so much more than EE because its premise is a lot more basic. I watched that episode last night, poor Pat It was really sad seeing her drinking at The Vic for the last time, it really is the end of an era. Someone from DS has posted a thread with some links to great Pat moments on YouTube, it's worth a look at. I love all the 80s Pat and Janine stuff!

Yeah, for some reason the retconning of those characters doesn't bother me much at all. You're right about Jade. When she arrived I thought it was fairly obvious that a line was going to be thrown in about Jade having a different father to Sonya or something about the fact that she is quite obviously of Asian heritage. I am quite appalled that TPTB let that one slip - you'd have thought someone running a professional operation would have noticed this quite obvious problem? But then, this is Neighbours... I did vote for Harold's return in the Top Soap Moments, and I did enjoy it on the whole, but I do think it could have been so much more. I would have liked it to have been mentioned that Harold was Kate and Sophie's Great Uncle, but I suppose the fact it wasn't mentioned means they can forget this connection further down the line. But considering at this point in time Kate and Sophie are 'Ramsays' it should have come up. It also annoys me that we've never seen Lou mention it considering how close he was to Madge. You have to wonder wht the actors think in these situations. Why hasn't Gemma Pranita or Eve Morey pointed out that they clearly couldn't be full-blood sisters? Are Ian Smith and Tom Oliver aware of Madge's connections to the kids and do they think it's ridiculous this hasn't been mentioned? So many questions that we'll never know the answers to... interesting point about trying to recreate the heydey.I guess you've got a point but personally I would be surprised if Susan Bower watched it in those days. She probably just thought it would provide some conflict between most of the long-stnading cast members in the show's 25th year and experimented a bit. She failed LOL. It's a real shame about the Karl/Susan and Jim story because it had so much potential. Nearly all of the legends/long-term characters have been tainted in some way on Neighbours, even characters that are long gone such as Helen who supposedly abandoned her illegitimate granddaughter. I've loved the Mal/Jade affair but a lot of fan have said they're struggling to understand Mal's motivation and would like Catherine to return as well. I don't agree with that, I quite like that aspect of the affair - that Catherine is half way across the world - because it shows how easily Mal can forget about her and carry on what he's doing with Jade. I would love for Mal and Catherine to return next year. You're right about Karl and Susan. Perhaps it's more important for kids to be there this time because characters over 40+ don't have personalities anymore and need to pander to the younger generations so they wouldn't functon on their own. A spoiler released says that there are some previous characters returning; the nature in which it was written makes me think it could be Mal and Catherine returning but another poster has suggested that it could also be Libby and Ben (recast). I can't imagine who else could return unless the returnees are not actually linked - i.e. Angie and Boy to return for their respective family members. Sorry, Ben, I'm afraid I'm very fickle when it comes to the characters I like and that has got me into trouble in the past. What it comes down to though is that I love Neighbours so much that I only want the very best actors on the show so when a poor performance comes through I get annoyed by that character. For me the big emotions/dramatic scenes are the test for any character/actress and the ones that carry off dramatic and comedic material with ease are the ones I like. For example, you always know, that no matter what the material, you'll always get good scenes from Jade, Sonya, Susan etc. Tash, Andrew etc not so sure. I used to love Andrew when he joined the cast but then I easily fall for the good looking young guys in soap Yeah, I'm very fickle when it comes to characters. I HATED that scene with Tash getting the email of her mother's death certificate. Did I mention it before? It was SO insulting and possibly the most unrealistic moment of all time. No birth/marriage/death certificates are ever emailed, seriously, what a joke. The writers shouldn't just assume that everything is done online and actually check first. I think the lack of family is a huge problem and I think it could lead to the show's demise if they don't sort it out. To be continued...

I think the intetion was for this to be a character led story but I don't think it has been. All of the characters have acted stupidly which has ruined my enjoyment of the storyline. Zainab has been totally ruined for me. I hated that line 'Will you rescue me again Masood?' and Masood just does what he's told despite how disloyal and ridiculous Zainab has been. I don't believe that she would have split from Masood, neither that she would marry Yusef again. The plot would have been so much stronger had Yusef just become a part of the famil simply because of Afia and Tamwar's marriage. They could still have had him manipulating Zainab and drugging her etc, and this massive finale could have happened but it would have been in character. I agree that it seems like they don't knowwhat to do with Amira. Her return has been a total waste of time sadly. It would be nice to see Carol and Denise as friends - I don't actually recall them having a scene together which is a shame. Denise is a warmer version of Carol, well 2010 Carol onwards. I think they should have kept on Jordan and perhaps re-cast him. I don't like the Patrick/Kim/Denise household as it somehow feels like that soap cliche of characters who have nothing to do being shoved with others. Patrick should have left instead of Charlie I think.

Why do you think killing off Tamwar would have been an easy way out? I think there's a lot of mileage left in the character but it would certainly have put a spanner in the works. I'm not saying it should have been done for that short-term effect but how many times does a soap have to bring in a baddie, then predictable kill them off and them to be the only one killed off. You could tell as soon as you heard about the fire that Yusef would be the only one. It's just run-of-the-mill OTT soap plot. It's definitely where they're going wrong. However, I do think the actress who plays Afia has done a fantastic job portraying how grief-stricken she is. She's an asset.

I think in the main, it has been terrible. It' all just so predictable. If they'd done something like kill off Tamwar, then it would have been gripping. But you just knew that Yusef would be the one to die so it rendered everything else pointless, really. I'm looking forward to Pat's exit although it does surprise me how people say how much of a legend she is etc etc when she's only really been a supporting character for the best part of ten years. Everything comes across as very gimmicky at the moment. Hopefully things will improve in the new year but I won't get my hopes up!