Soaplovers

RHOC reunion Tamra is cold-blooded, but I can't say that I feel sorry for Shannon being duped by her.. because Gretchen did warn Shannon a few years ago on WWHL to watch out for Tamra. However, I do think Shannon needs to take a restraining order out against Gina... talk about obsessed/creepy.. yikes. I think Gina, and Andy Cohen, thought that viewers would embrace Gina because her story was a lot like Camille/Kelsey's story. The difference was that we all knew Kelsey Grammar for years.. and even saw him on the show several times (even getting a few talking heads).. and Camille was interesting, fascinating, and yet evil (and I still believe her claims about Kyle to this day). I'm really hoping Gina is a one and done girl because she offers nothing interesting, nor new.

I do like Crystal coming in for guest spots. I do think once Crystal was phased out in the 5th season that the quirky/pathetic soul role went to both Nancy and Jackie. And I was one of the few that never liked Darlene with David. They worked as first loves, but not in the sense of being end game.

Wow... why don't we just agree to disagree and move on from this topic? I do admit to loving holiday episodes on the soaps (and will watch older holiday episodes from the 80s/90s online). The one thing I wish modern soaps would portray is the chosen 'family' vs biological family aspect of life. I'd love more scenes of Friendsgiving and friends celebrating Christmas because I know a lot of people do that instead of trying to go home for the holidays.

He also was the teen son on Evening Shade. Gilbert had good taste in men as a teen

I agree with how tone deaf modern soap operas are especially with what resonates with modern day viewers vs viewers from the 70s/80s. However, soaps still do write this kind of story.. and some viewers actually eat it up... case in point... Y & R: Sharon and Adam... the man stole her baby.. and she still had feelings and even thought of going back to him evne if that meant losing custody of her daughter (the same child that Adam stole from her and made her believe was dead for months). Ratings dropped.. and yet it still carried forward for a long period of time. Days: Ciara and Ben... a serial killer that is getting a romantic story.. and Hope is viewed as the baddie for actually having reservations about her daughter going with an unbalance guy known to serial kill. The scary thing is on social media, it's a popular coupling and anyone that questions it gets roasted by their fan base. So when the show messed up the potential of Travers character, they at least knew that a romantic pairing between him and Jessica was not in the cards. And yes, I do question why Marland couldn't find a place for Heather on the canvas when he took over. He even admitted it in his initial story bible when he took over as head-writer.. and she was gone within a few months. Heather and Jessica, like mentioned, were vastly different characters.. and would have been good to see the contrasts between the two characters. The show briefly tried that with Denise, Camille (still thought it was a waste writing her off), and Jessica in the late 90s for a time.

I was thinking about this demo thing.. and perhaps the silver lining would be that Andy Cohen would be removed from the channel since he is over 50 A dude can dream.

From the one episode available on youtube from 1979, Kathleen plays Nola as very cold and calculating so it will be interesting to see Kathleen's Nola starts to display a calculating tone in the future episodes. I asked my mom once what she thought of Nola.. and she said that she was a fan of Zimmer until she joined GL explaining she wasn't so OTT as Nola nor Echo.

I kind of disagree with Roxie being redundant and unnecessary because of the Cassie/Reva sibling relationship. Roxy was more the type to be open and accepting while Reva was always on guard and eyed anyone with caution.. so I could have seen Roxy coming for visits.. bonding with Cassie while Reva feeling left out.. and we all know how Reva hates to be left out and not the center of attention. Plus, early Cassie was very rough around the edges and cynical like early Reva was.. so I could have seen Reva/Cassie butting heads because they too alike. And I do agree it is surprising Josh never fathered a child with anyone other than Reva.. given how much of a ladies man he was when he first came to town in 1981... I do agree that there was a period where Sonni was thought dead so I could have seen Sonni perhaps having a child and in her Solita personality given the child up... and that could explain why even though Sonni had been treated for the split personality.. she felt ill at ease staying in Springfield because of the guilt of giving her and Josh's child up (and could have tied into that open ended final scene questioning if Sonni had been Sonni.. or was Solita the whole time).

I'm sure Marland would have treated Luke's coming out well... but I probably would have dozed off.. since I found the day to day episodes to be lacking in terms of excitement/interest... too intellectual for me (only the Iva with the pitch fork and Frannie on the tram were interesting to me). I kind of wish Marland had a strong co-head writer that could have reigned in his tendency to micromanage and let the script writers write the scripts without him breathing over their neck (which I heard he did quite a lot when he head-wrote on GL). With that said, I do think ATWT was the soap he fit in best at..imho.

It's interesting that the seeds of Roxie's eventually breakdown started in the fall of 1987. I always thought having Roxie go crazy was kind of a cop out but the actress decided to up and quit.. so I guess Long couldn't write out Roxie as dumping Johnny since the character was too devoted/true blue to Johnny so I guess having her have a breakdown made sense storywise. Why the show never thought to have her recover and come visit I'll never understand (though in 1990, Long had written that Roxie was recovering and making progress so Johnny broke things off with Chelsea to go be with her... but future writers had her still in mental hospitals up till 2002 at least). I liked Roxie/Reva's sisterly relationship much better than the Cassie/Reva one that the show kept trying to push down our throats. While Reva/Roxie both suffered from mental illness issues... I always saw Roxie as being warmer, full of spirit, and not a social climber like Reva was. I wish Long and other writers made more of a point of showing how Roxie/Reva differed from one another.

NY could stand a minor shake up... Why Tinsley is allowed to still be a cast member I'll never understand, and Sonja has worn out her welcome. Luann/Dorinda/Bethenny/Ramona are enough from the veterans.. with at least two new housewives added.. and you can still have an interesting show. And I'm one that likes constant changes in the line up (why I never will give up on the OC.. which always changes up the lineup... though I think Tamra or Vicki need to go.. so that it can be rebooted properly.

That could explain why OC cast Gina and Emily, who had young kids. Most comments on social media said one housewife with small kids would have been ok.. but not two LOL And a lot of young moms I know that watch the OC told me they enjoyed the Andales scenes much better than the mommy and me stuff (since they couldn't wait to get to an age where they could go away without worrying about their kids LOL).

Considering Peggy was going through breast reconstruction surgery during filming and probably was on pain medication... calling her comatose is kind of misguided. With that said, if I were her.. I would have opted to sit out for season 12 and tried out for another season once the procedure was done.. and she wasn't on pain medication, etc. Seeing how my mom was during her breast reconstruction surgery... I don't know if we what we saw in season 12 was Peggy at 100 percent. I think she either should have been given a 2nd chance.. or been put on the waiting list for another season. With that said, I say keep Emily and cut Gina (her voice sounds too much like Bethenny.. and her personality is grating like Bethenny's. There is a reason I don't watch the east coast housewives much anymore because those voices are like nails on a chalkboard to me LOL).

Gina gave me Gretchen vibes with that tacky hair, makeup and dress. I also call BS on her divorce story... there is way more than meets the eyes with that story.. and that also gives me Gretchen vibes since there was almost nothing legit/genuine about Gretchen either (other than her creepy single white female fascination with Tamra in season 4). Shannon isn't speaking to anyone, and I love that she's pissed at Tamra.. with Tamra not understanding why Shannon is upset with her and not Vicki (but I think Shannon accepted Vicki back as a friend.. but not the way it was before). And Kelly.. did you not learn anything from the way Vicki had no problem making up lies about Shannon two seasons ago? You honestly think Vicki wouldn't pull that on you? Still.. I love that Kelly is kind of legit scared of Emily

I say send Melissa to OC... Vicki and Tamra will have her for a snack before moving on to more worthy prey LOL And casting 'names' doesn't work if it's a reality show because in a reality show, we want people that are authentic and not acting for the camera. Shannon, Dorinda, and Margaret weren't names.. and the reason people fell in love with all three of them were because of their personalities and how authentic they are... not because they were a name.

I can see what you're saying... it is entirely possible that she did some alterations on the scripts.. but since they were written using outlines by Anderson/Manetta.. that is why they were probably credited. And I am curious on the committee writing thing you mentioned before.. since Another World and ATWT didn't employ this committee writing thing as much as GL did (well ATWT probably started to once Marland passed away.. but AW kept a head-writer/co head writer thing up till the mid 90s). I think the test to see which parts of the show were Long's idea and which weren't would probably be answered in early 1991 episodes after she departed (Mallet/Mindy ended fairly quickly once Long left)... while the whole Mindy/Roger affair kept going (Curlee had mentioned that was her idea)... plus Harley working with Mindy at the fashion house ended in early 1991.. and she decided to become a cop. Another thing from viewing 1989 episodes (which answer so many questions for me as to how Gilly came onto the scene.. how Billy/Nadine met.. and what caused Vanessa/Billy to break up yet again).. is that I finally got the answer to why Maureen was always jealous of Holly. Holly was the one to end things with Ed in the summer of 1989 because she knew he still loved Maureen.. while Ed was protesting the end of their new relationship. It explained why Maureen was on edge whenever Holly came to Ed for advice or help.. because Maureen knew Ed was still in love with Holly.. and she felt, as misguided as it was, that Ed only came back to him because Holly broke up with him. Which is why she instantly assumed Holly and Ed were having an affair in 1992 (when it was Lillian, not Holly) because Maureen always believed Ed would go running back if Holly had given the ok.

There is a July 1st 1987 posted from awhile back that showed Anderson/Manetta were still listed as head-writers (during the 50th anniversary week) so I'm going to guess the reason that a lot of Warren's past was referenced was because the breakdown/script writers writing the episodes had been there during Long's 1st tenure. There isn't a whole lot of episodes posted between early July and fall of 1987 when Long is back as head-writer.. so I'm guessing she came back in July/August 1987. The fact that Lacey Bauer was still around by July 1st 1987 makes me believe that Long hadn't returned yet.. because once she officially came back, Lacey was shown the door... Frank Cooper was created.. and Harley Cooper followed shortly thereafter (with mentions of Nadine coming as early as the start of 1988 as well).

I've been rewatching 1989 (Pam Long's first full year back as head-writer).. and it's interesting to see how she effortlessly tested characters with one another to see what worked and what didn't work.... for example.. Nadine was scheming with Alan when she first arrived, had a brief relationship with Ross (I recall the actor playing Ross saying that he wished the relationship was explored more), and it was Billy that first approached her.. not the other way around. In fact, Billy/Nadine were in cahoots because he was interested in getting Vanessa back and Nadine had her eye on Ross.. and Vanessa/Ross were casually flirting/talking (I loved how that relationship thread was maintained into the late 90s where even Blake was jealous of it circa 1992/3). And the thing was that Nadine wasn't an idiot, but was just ambition yet had an interesting/tense relationship with both Harley/Frank during that period. I also had no idea that Frank/Holly was tested a few times.. while Johnny/Holly was also tested (all post Ed and before she and Roger thawed out toward one another)... while Chelsea/Phillip were still tense with one another after their break up the year before... and that Sam had a crush on Frank before she/Dylan were paired together. It's interesting to see 1989 as a year where Long was experimenting to see how all the pieces would fit together... and it is a shame Michelle Forbes opted to leave in late 1989 because Sonni/Roger were intriguing as well as Blake/Sonni not getting along.. while Sonni/Rusty were actually friendly with one another (with chemistry to boot since he and Kimberly Simms Mindy didn't have any). I often think Curlee didn't officially become a co headwriter (or take over 50 percent of the duties) till at least 1990 when a lot of these experiments went away.

I think a 13 episode OC season would have been better ( 13 episodes plus 2 part reunion equaling 15 episodes). In fact, I think when most of the shows went to 20 + (including Atlanta) is when the fatigue set in. I'd keep Emily (how cute she came with receipt in a binder LOL) and ditch Gina (sorry.. we never saw her husband so why should I care she's getting a divorce... plus, she had nothing else to offer). Emily offered an odd courtship, odd marriage, an interesting business model (law practice/party planner business), a sad back story, and a temper that even had Kelly scared LOL

I'd rather see less of Jackie.. tbh

I do feel 1988 would have the year that Long's efforts at fixing the show would have paid off except for the writer strike hindering five months or so of story. With that said, the first week she and the other writers came back in mid September 1988... you noticed a difference right away in how the show was written. She picked up the random threads the scabs left and ran with them... providing some interesting story material for Fletcher (as grieving widow), Maureen, Ed, etc. I also think the scab writers were the ones to have Meredith/Phillip hook up randomly... which Long took and ran with generating months of story/conflict with Rick/Phillip/Blake/Meredith... and pairing Alex/Fletcher was an interesting choice since the two had interacted for several years on occasion while both were in other relationships... and having the two flying to South America (because of their ties to the Sonni story) and crashing on an island where Roger Thorpe was... a good way to kick start another story. In regards to Jackson Fremont, I always wonder if Long had intended to write him off after the Largo story and Lujack's death aftermath was over because she left shortly after the conclusion of that story. I do think when she returned, she did phase him out to being a recurring character. And I think the only reason she kept Chelsea on was mostly due to the actress and not the character... though I did think Chelsea/Maureen had good sister chemistry... and the Rae stalking story in late 1989/early 1990 was a good showcase for Chelsea. It was just that she was left in limbo for the last six months or so she was on the show with the show having her sing at the Blue Moon.. and flirting with Fletcher/Frank. I also would have loved to have had someone ask Long what her original plans were for Blake (since she was known for writing extensive bibles for new characters).

OMG, it just dawned on me where I had seen Sharmari before... Bring it On... my go to cheerleader movie back in the day. She's done music and a little acting on the side.. and I recall that she did a decent acting job in the movie as well.

I say ditch Gina and add a newbie for season 14 of OC.. and you will still have the dynamics.

I'm curious how RHOBH will be like with LVP not filming with most of the ladies... probably like season 3 Adrienne Maloof style.

I like the looks... they aren't over the top like on the other shows... though I admit I miss the days when they came out in casual clothes.