DRW50

A major criticism at the time was that the show was plotless for months and months - Marlena de la Croix said it was baking a cake without any flour. The other criticism was clunky social issue plotlines - I think every one they did got panned. Watching the end of the mystery reminded me of one of the main problems with transitioning from a horrific murder spree to a new, hip show. Not only is it exhausting for viewers, but it hangs over the characters. Many of the characters who moved on were not directly tied to the murders, but it still has the moment where you have to question Buck the sexy bartender or Ally the plucky photographer when you look at their last year on Loving. There's one bit I remember seeing that left a bad taste in my mouth, where Tess tries to use the knowledge of the murders to blackmail her way through a scheme. It's not out of character, but it's so crass a writing choice and so out of sorts with the slickness of The City that I assume it's one of the reasons The City had to very belatedly foist a cancer redemption type story on Tess, even though by that point the character really shouldn't have needed it.

The reason they did the story was because they knew the show was wrapping up.

I wonder if the working experience Agnes had in its early period, and whatever went on with Marland and with that other man who was originally involved, meant that she was hesitant to go back and the show was rudderless as a result. Didn't it take her almost a decade to want to return? It seems like it was mostly just the health of the ABC lineup and merchandising opportunities (and maybe the massive popularity in Italy?) which helped stretch through those years.

Thank you @ltm1997 . Good to see this again. I can't remember if Deborah ever had such long hair when she was in the role before. It's interesting to see her trying to play "up" compared to how she played Jill in the other episodes we've seen. I guess that's due to how much campier the character had become since her departure.

I probably have a scan somewhere. If I ever find it I'll put it on here, if no one else has.

Maeve, Jordan and Bryan - I can't wait. As always Kurt is crashing my Vanessa/Billy party, but oh well. (I'm not surprised Wendy Moniz isn't on this)

Speaking of Lachlan Buchanan, he talks a bit about his role here, and talks about how being gay has impacted his career. https://www.queerty.com/lachlan-buchanan-talks-shooting-first-shower-make-scene-much-20200416

Someone claiming to be Jarrod Ross (Philip Spaulding #1) is on Youtube. They put up a short video from a GL episode. It's an episode that was already available (April 13, 1979). Anyway, if anyone wanted to try to get in contact with him about whether he has any episodes or wants to talk with him about his time on GL (if it's him), here is the channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3hM1LJmOo7cytj2_k4G-Ig/videos

Someone claiming to be Jarrod Ross (Philip Spaulding #1) is on Youtube. They put up a short video from a GL episode. It's an episode that was already available (April 13, 1979). Anyway, if anyone wanted to try to get in contact with him about whether he has any episodes or wants to talk with him about his time on GL (if it's him), here is the channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3hM1LJmOo7cytj2_k4G-Ig/videos

@I Am A Swede this was new to me. Not sure if you'd seen the photo. https://twitter.com/emmerdale/status/1251146847722168328

Someone said her last role was on OLTL as Eve McBain. Around the time of her Loving appearances she was also on ATWT as "Apple Annie," or whatever her name was - some baking magnate who was Linc Lafferty's bio mom.

I get the idea of these shows being about women who talk about what victims they are, but surely that only works if you can laugh at them or enjoy the camp and the glam of it all. None of that is very true for BH in many years. I have a feeling Garcelle is going to get the Joyce treatment.

I remember in Tudor's exit interview she mentioned "getting her body back." I think she had a young child in these years. So that may have also been a factor in her change in wardrobe. Speaking of Christine, I found this from 1988 which mentions her overcoming a rough past. So many fascinating layers. I'm sorry she hasn't done anything since Loving. https://apnews.com/6e34cbf8280546d25b3e6ca25a059713 Now that you mention it I do feel like the show abandoned a lot of layers to Alex and to Clay in the last years. I think James Horan, who is probably my favorite Clay, embodied them most, but they still could have been there even without him. Alex mostly just becomes a vehicle for Randolph Mantooth's charisma once he returns, especially since they did such a shoddy job bringing Egypt back. What I've seen of Ava those last few years doesn't really draw me in as much either.

It's working well enough, as the media is already peddling stories about all the pressure on swing state governors and cleaning up the ugliness of these protests (lots of focus on American flags, not so much on Confederate flags, blocking ambulances, or things like this): I just hope the governors are able to hold the line as long as they can. It's insane to me that we are still getting so little basic financial support and barely any testing in the middle of a pandemic. I knew America was broken, but this is close to a level of complete death. When something really bad hits, we are truly incapable of coping.

I think it's a compelling story, just hard to watch at times and sort of saddled between ending a 12 year soap and awkwardly trying to launch a new one. I do wish The City had succeeded, but since it didn't, I wonder how compelling a final ending with Corinth would have been instead. You mentioned the GH references under Ron. I wish they'd done more with that - they still could, especially as they have Laura Wright there and everything, and GH, mainly in the '90s, sometimes had the same hints of atmosphere and edge underneath all the mobster posturing, especially the Ryan/Kevin saga.

@dc11786 just to echo what others have said, I do appreciate all your thoughts. I will admit flat out that I never can make any real sense of the different shifts in writer and producer changeover when we get episodes, as they are so spaced apart. Your details and insights help fill in the blanks. Loving was very lucky in that they had a core of actors who help mask the constant changes, but I appreciate knowing exactly what caused all these changes. The whiplash doesn't seem as evident onscreen as it does when reading, because of the work of Tudor, Taylor, Peluso, etc. but sometimes it does creep in, and I'm glad to know why. I keep wishing more of these plans had been able to be played out, but I will say that most of what we get to see is at least watchable. I know there were "bad" periods of Loving, but I never have felt them when I watch. I also agree that it's harder to watch the murder story, and how I sort of have to separate it from the rest of the show. I do think the aggressive new characters brought in for The City were something of a nuisance and probably didn't help viewers want to move on with the transition. I was distracted by just how bad George Palermo's acting was in Stacey's death episode, when he was confronting Tess. It's a credit to Cat Hickland that she was able to maintain performance and carry him along. (he did improve over the course of Loving's last months, even if I never cared for the character) Another thing I notice when watching these is that Robert Tyler was a better actor than he tended to get credit for.

Didn't that show end 4-5 years before Dallas started? I guess he doesn't want to mention the bad revamp or some of the uglier personalities and their legal dramas.

I finished the 1992 episodes on the Facebook page. The Dinah Lee and Clay story is nonsensical, all this expensive, elaborate scheming just to protect Hannah's dreams for her sister (and Hannah is of course as saccharine as possible to justify this writing), but Jessica Collins and Larkin Malloy do have chemistry, and Jessica more than manages to sell Dinah Lee's insecurities and starry-eyed nature. She and Robert Tyler are absolutely wonderful together in their scenes from the April episode,. Thanks to Collins, and some of the writing, Dinah Lee feels very real in moments like that, not as generic as Trisha could sometimes be.I also liked how Stacey (who was so well written in this episode) stuck up for her, in spite of the dislike she felt. Christine Tudor steals the show. As this was soon after her taking the role back from Elizabeth Savage, they tapped into a sexier side of the actress, which she certainly delivered, but the vulnerability is what stands out most. Her scenes with Larkin in that last episode are the standouts - their chemistry is phenomenal. The throughline for Clay and Gwyn through all the years and all the recasts is forever heartbreaking, for reasons best shown here - I love the bit where Clay asks why they have to start fighting any time they get close. It was nice to see so much of Bernard Barrow's Louie, but the wedding seemed like too much for the story to me. Unearned. Well filmed though, and the first dance between Clay and Dinah Lee was perfect. Giff is such a fascinating character in these glimpses. I'm so sorry they made him into a generic psycho. I think @dc11786 had had some criticisms about the Carly story. I can see why now. It's so excessively maudlin and melodramatic. The basic story of Carly using Flynn to avoid her feelings for Paul and Flynn angrily dumping her for this would have been better and easier to connect to than a car accident that felt like something from one of those anti-drunk driving PSAs. All the stuff with her boozing and breakdowns - nah. And while Joe Breen and Colleen Quinn played the material as best they could, Paul seeing her at such a low point and telling her he loved her and pushing kisses on her made them both look awful. Their selfishness helped send a man to his death. I guess they were both leaving so the show didn't care about how they came across, but considering how good some of Paul's previous story was, this left a bad taste in my mouth.

The Dobsons had so many complex, fascinating female characters, I guess her absence wasn't as immediately noticeable. It's a shame they didn't have her on again when Long/Kobe gutted the hospital group in 84-85.

That trailer is bad, especially the awful emo wailing that clashes with the period setting. I love Matthew Rhys and I like seeing a '30s setting. I hope it works out.

I wonder if they brought her back for Roger's rape trial. Did Fran Rogers want to leave?

You're right.