DRW50

I'd argue Hill St. Blues, LA Law, and St. Elsewhere, although most involved with them would probably have retched if you called them soaps.

While we're talking about thirtysomething, I just remembered they got such severe backlash to showing a gay couple (recurring characters) in bed that they lost advertisers and helped cause a chilling effect. It's the reminder I sometimes need that no matter how much I want to see soaps or TV shows be more inclusive, the audience is often not going to let them do so, including an audience you might have expected better of than, say, somebody sitting down to watch Hee Haw (nothing against Hee Haw, I watched it for years as a kid). Strangers (Thirtysomething) - Wikipedia There was no public outcry about the episode before it aired. Following the broadcast, ABC received around 400 telephone calls with about 90% of them being negative. TV Guide in its "Cheers & Jeers" column gave the episode a "Jeer", saying that having the men have sex on the first date perpetuated negative stereotypes about the promiscuity of gay men. Five of the show's regular sponsors pulled out of the episode, costing the network approximately $1.5 million in advertising revenue. ABC removed the episode from the summer rerun schedule out of fear for additional losses.[4] The controversy surrounding "Strangers" in the late 1980s, along with similar controversies relating to early 1990s episodes of such shows as Picket Fences ("Sugar & Spice") and Roseanne ("Don't Ask, Don't Tell"), led producers to refrain from presenting sexualization of their gay and lesbian characters.

I feel like Hannah was more of an attempt at a Brenda replacement.

I would agree with that. I'd also say Vicky took over many of Marley's traits in ingenue status.

Pinter seems alright to me but lacking in a certain spark. I still might have kept him, but all the other McColls gone I can understand the choice. I can't ever remember whether he is the one who wrote Maggie and Frank out. Some said she left right before his work began. What surprised me was that she never visited and I did not ever hear her mentioned when I started watching ATWT (around 1989 or 1990). I don't know how often they ever mentioned Cricket but I think it was a little more than Maggie. The first time I ever heard of Maggie was when I got the anniversary book in '96 and there was this woman in photos and synopses.

Yes - in the episode above, you can see Seth flinching a little when Meg and Josh are being romantic. I sometimes wonder how many of these touches were added by the actors... I would love to be able to ask Marland for his full thoughts on Iva, because even when Iva did what he always preached in the writing (intensive therapy), she was still punished - it was, IIRC, her intense therapy and pulling back from Kirk that helped lead him to Ellie. I'll never stop missing Lisa. I am drawn to her work as Iva any time I rewatch these episodes, even in those last few years like 1993 that have material I loathed (the custody battle).

There was a UK soap, Together, in the early '80s, which ended because the affiliate it was on (Southern) was shut down. They had a gay character in the first season and in the second and last, he moves a boyfriend in, and then they have various struggles (homophobia, of course, but also personality differences). It's a shame there is never a world where Knots or the other soaps would have done this...even Dynasty never let Steven's boyfriends stay around long enough. I just double checked and as soon as Steven said he would move in with Luke, Luke was gunned down. Then again, if death meant Luke could escape from Jack Coleman's wooden line readings, maybe he was better off.

On ATWT, after Doug Marland shifted Lily out of being a central heroine due to Martha Byrne's exit from the role, he introduced Rosanna, a dreary heiress who saw the Snyder farm as her true home and got involved with a studly farm boy. On AW, as Iris was leaving Bay City, Miranda Bishop was introduced, in a naked attempt to recreate the socialite scheming to break up Mac and Rachel. On GL, Lucy Cooper was such a blatant attempt to recreate Harley that she was brought in the very same episode where Harley left. This was not a good introduction choice (for me and I'm guessing for many other fans), to say the least.

I remember the Sally drag too. I think Christine dressed as Kelly in a scheme against Isabella.

Seeing Kim and Bob this close confuses me on the timelines because there are a few episodes I thought were from early 1985 where she fled to the Stewart cabin and was in tears because she didn't want to betray her sister's memory by getting back together with Bob. Yet they already seem to be together in this episode (which is a nice, understated Thanksgiving episode - how timely) I think Cal was meant to be an anti-hero, based on the material I've seen with Cal and Maggie. I liked Maggie (much more than Doug Marland did apparently), but so many of these 1984 and 1985 episodes have her weeping and wailing. A chore to sit through. I wonder about that as well because not only did Iva have to suffer and sacrifice, but when she did something for herself, she was likely to get frozen out, like when Emma was upset that she began dating John. Part was likely not intended (I doubt Marland ever expected Josh/Meg to get big the way they did - I can't even remember how much of their biggest material was during the strike), but some element did seem to be about persecution with Iva.

I think she was trans as well. The amount of times soap characters dressed up as maid or nuns is probably too numerous to list. Ditto for the amount of disguises on JER shows, often in tandem with someone being sexually assaulted (who can forget Stefano as Elvis?). And of course Alan Spaulding pretending to be a Japanese businessman (mercifully without yellowface, as I suppose GL was already close enough to actually being canceled to not be "canceled"). Then there are the twin or cousin disguises, the most charming versions being with Adam/Stuart and Vicky/Marley. (honorable mention to the Rose/Lily story for making canonical what we could already guess [Lily was boring in bed])

When they were trying to get Maria's baby back (when Dimitri wouldn't admit he wasn't the father) and/or trying to help rescue Gloria from Dimitri.

Another episode I don't remember seeing before (the next episode, Kirk and Ellie's wedding, used to be on Youtube). Whoever wrote this was either not a big fan of the Kirk/Ellie pairing or knew a lot of fans weren't, as it is littered with moments that remind viewers how important Iva was in making Kirk a better person, characters saying they thought she would be marrying Kirk, and characters like Meg pointing out how odd it is that she is the maid of honor. Kirk's ex-wife saying that her agreeing just shows what a special family the Snyders are amuses me. Some nice moments with Julie and Andy too, fortunately not much of Courtney clinging. I love the ensemble feel of the episode as well. There's a new scene in the closing credits, which you don't get very often during this period of the show. And as a contrast you have a lot of island passion with Frannie and Daryl. @slick jones You may already have her listed (I searched and didn't find her but I'm not great at the searches) - Maggie Task as Mabel.

I can understand it to a point, because Anne Heche had made Vicky into a more complex character, whereas Ellen's was more of a caricature. I also wonder how much was down to the character being one of the main romantic leads, which Ellen's Vicky never was. It's hard to picture Ellen with Paul Michael Valley. I still wish they'd tried, as Jensen, while she eventually made Vicky her own, overplayed her early on and seemed more at home with Marley.

That makes sense. I'm sorry for whatever reason that the story was abandoned.

Kind of shocked at Morgan in that interview. She can barely move her face. You can mostly hear the age in Donna and Linda's voices (or from dental work possibly) but they both look more real to me. I know it's not fair to go on about plastic surgery so much but in cases like this I was transfixed.

I did wonder if they had more plans for Jansen. I think Carroll passed away a few years later. I'm one of the few who didn't mind the ending with the gorilla or find it a betrayal of the show. I'm more annoyed by choices like bringing back Sam Groom but not as Russ Matthews.

I watched some of that again recently and had forgotten, as you both said, Anne was styled better as Marley and had a better grasp on the character than she did in the 88-89 period, which had an awful wig and too much baby rabies. Speaking of Anne, this was up before and has been reuploaded. It's a pilot she did in 2005.

Thanks!

Whenever I think of Thanksgiving, I think of ATWT, and the P&G soaps in general. I hope everyone had a happy or peaceful day, whether on your own or with a crowd.

Thanks for watching. Someone in the comments said he's Mark Slade.

Sorry if this shouldn't be in here. I was trying to figure out if anyone knows where the mother in this is from. I could swear I've seen her on a soap. @jam6242 @vetsoapfan

Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Loving fans. Here's a treat:

That's lovely. Thanks as always.

Or the John Howard fans... Seriously, I was a fan of AK/MS era and what became of Emily and Paul after that, especially Emily, made them feel like strangers to me. I will give KMH some credit for keeping a job through nearly twenty years of terrible writing.