DRW50

If they had to do the Miranda story (goodness knows why), he would have made more sense than Bob did. He had a history of women the family found unsuitable and he might have been drawn into a whirlwind romance, unaware she was a drug lord, had a tedious daughter, etc. I have a feeling even if Joe hadn't left, Scott would not have amounted to much because of all the turnover at the time. The Sabrina story definitely gave a lot of good material for the first year or so. It might seem worse in hindsight because of how little they managed to do with Sabrina compared to, say, Stuart on AMC or Vicky on AW (other doppelgangers brought into story).

I know there was a claim Marland was going to recast Frannie if he'd lived. There was still a lot left with the character if they had cared. Sabrina was never up to much as a character but if they'd brought her in later on rich and bitter, clashing with the Hughes family values, it could have worked.

I always try to keep in mind that the story being my intro into Loving means I can't react the way more longtime fans could have. I wish some of them could be interviewed or could have been interviewed about how they felt.

I haven't watched it all either (The City) - I think the more human moments are late in the run. But even early on when they have her behaving in nasty ways they seem to try to add more humor (there's a hilarious and weird scene where she breaks into Syndey's apartment, finds a Thighmaster, and does it while using a German or Swedish voice). I do think killing off Stacey was a good way to kickstart a mystery. I kind of think they could have kept Curtis alive and just institutionalized. His death didn't add much beyond more of Gwyn's despair, and we would have had that anyway with him being locked away.

I do think they took Marcantel for granted - he was much more charismatic in the '94 episodes than given credit for. I haven't closely watched what of B&E is out there pre-Murders. I can see where people would feel the show was too dark and mean, not helped by characters like Tess (who seems to lighten up on The City). I know the person that uploaded a lot of 92-95 episodes would go on in the comments about how much they disliked B&E's run. From the bits I've seen I also think they wrote Stacey's stories as being too immature for where she should have been in by that point in her life. Who cares about repeat money stories with Buck and his insecurities?

I think the closest they get to Chris' early Curtis is when they bring in Chip Albers. I wonder if Chris was ever considered at that time, unless someone at ABC really liked Chris on AMC. I like what I've seen of Chip's work (even if it took me a few minutes to separate from his years in softcore), but Chris could have played that run well, even if the writing wasn't up to much.

I'm grateful for what we have of '60s and '70s GH but most of the time the quality is very rough. I'd forgotten they went in on Lucille too. Watching some bits of these episodes and having Lucille saying Audrey just needs to get over her miscarriage, having Steve belittle someone who had committed suicide or was about to do so, etc. reminds me of how rigid GH feels in morality and tone compared to where ABC soaps were heading at this time.

I haven't seen those in years. I remember laughing at some of the content but looking back I feel bad that they would make horrified/disgusted noises any time Emily McLaughlin would come onscreen (I think it was her).

I agree. Writing out Dan may have bought them some more time. The real fault lies in aging them so quickly and then killing off Paul. I think that de-aging Dan could have worked, as Susan and Kim were both vibrant (and Susan was on the way out anyway), but I can see why they made the choice they did. The problem is the choices the show made afterward. Considering how youth-obsessed soaps were in the early '80s, we're lucky they kept Kim through those five years of misuse/underuse. It's definitely something I never expected to see. I'm trying to hold back on my greediness and remember this may be it and just enjoy something that is so precious. I can see it. She also reminds me of Judith Chapman. Sadly we've never seen any of her ATWT work. @Mitch64 I forgot to say there's a line in this that felt like it was written just for you (the one where Lisa says Nancy would never talk about someone behind their back...but Lisa would).

I think you're right. There's criticism if you try too much to put the past into context for media, but I see it that way more than Ingalls trying to be racist the way the Charlie Kirks or the world are now. Most streaming material is slop. The one I hear the most praise of (Apple TV) is the least watched. I enjoy some shows on Netflix, but even those (like Bridgerton) I know aren't actually good - just some good casting and pretty costumes. I'd want more than that for Little House.

I think I remember seeing some of that. It probably could have been exciting but not with Mary living. Mary waking long enough to confess the truth and then dying might have worked. I have vague memories of Mary being styled like Heidi in this period. And wearing pancake makeup. Who am I to argue with Eileen! I suppose it wouldn't have made a difference whether Chuckie or Scott was there. The show was heading to a place where neither were going to work. The mistake was killing him off in the first place.

I wouldn't even say the Dobsons moved away from the Stewarts - they used them all, even the one I might have punted for a while (Annie). They did not use the Hughes family well at all. I don't think that was down to the family being too old, because they could still heavily contribute to story, other than Chris. They could also have done more with Don and Joyce. Joyce was a spark plug and her being written out makes no sense to me. I think they just didn't get the Hughes family. I am not sure why they struggled so much with Bob, as they did a decent job with Ed Bauer. A part of me wonders if they may have blanched at the family because Bridget Dobson had an extremely difficult relationship with her parents, who, from some of her descriptions, remind me a bit of Nancy. Helen Wagner also suffered no fools. Nothing against John Colenback, but I think they should not have brought him back when John Reilly left. Reilly was a popular leading man and seemed to be seen as a sex symbol too - he feels much older by this point, only a few years later.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just wanted Lisa to be child-free and didn't want to age him given that Tom had already been aged by that point. He's what they tried to make Scott. I didn't mind Scott but they should have just brought Chuckie back from the dead.

By that time Valerie was moving out of Oakdale, so I don't think we got to see what the story might have been, but, going on my memories of watching a decade ago, I liked the story. It was smaller, quieter, more character-based, and well-acted. And I agree that Kate, like Suzanne Davidson, felt "real," which is something that (aside from Lily) would be something ATWT started moving away from in the '80s and onward (they seemed to start again in the show's last few years, with characters like Parker, but by then it didn't matter). I love watching Judith McConnell but I am not sure we'll ever see the strongest material she had as Valerie - if she had any. It seems like someone at ABC and P&G decided to just hire some actors recently fired from GH and hope for the best. At least I can finally say I've seen Martin West as Don, with that enthralling dinner party clip just uploaded. Honestly, he's much more Boy Scout-esque than I had expected considering his years playing wicked Phil Brewer. This does fit the Hughes family, in some ways. Conrad Fowkes plays the character as a little darker, if still dull. After seeing that clip, I'm all the more disappointed Robert Altman likely never saw soaps. Barbar Rodell would have absolutely killed in one of his films. Or an Alan Rudolph film.

I read The Long Winter over and over as a kid. I still remember the passages where Laura was slowly dying on the sled, and how cold the rooming house she stayed in was, how even getting under the blankets was too much. I have seen some claim that the books are white supremacist or fascist or what have you, or they say that is true of the background of them. I don't remember them well enough to say. I do think going back to them for source material isn't a bad idea. I just wish it wasn't Netflix, which is generally slop (even what I enjoy on their service is slop). I am hoping at the least they don't try to emulate that smug hack Taylor Sheridan.

I agree ten minutes would make short scenes easier to watch than forty. I think the 10-15 minute format benefits from longer scenes, rather than shorter scenes, but with care, there could be a balance. It's just a shame we don't have that on soaps anymore. Before anyone steps in I know this is off topic so I'll stop.

I don't know if anyone who is advocating for a 10-to-15-minute soap wants 10 minutes of fast scenes. I would go back to the old formats of 15 minute soaps - a small cast with a few guest performers, 2-3-4 scenes in that episode. I also think someone who is not Frank Valentini and is a better producer would manage the format. It goes beyond just short scenes with him, as last year the scenes lengthened and I still don't think the show was very good outside of a few moments and performers. I do think some younger people might watch a soap if it was 15 minutes and made easily available to them. Of course they aren't going to just watch any show. The soaps have been poorly written, produced, and acted much of the time for years and years now. They aren't going to just tune into something because it's shorter. I'd never say B&B is better just because it's shorter. I would say that a 30 minute show allows for more improvement and possibilities. 60 minutes was out of network greed, not to enhance the genre. I do think that with improved quality, a 15 minute soap would be more likely to bring new viewers in today's world than a 60 minute soap. But of course, even with a shorter runtime, if the quality doesn't improve, and if the producers and network actively fight story that was bringing in new fans or exciting fans who had lost interest (like Trina/Spencer did), then nothing will change.

That is the main stuff, yes.

I think there were some decent moments with Dorian and David in the show's last decade, I just think the whole "we see each other" type of relationship they had in 1995 was compelling and true to both characters. In these '76-'77 episodes that aspect of Matt and Dorian also interests me the most, more than when they push too much of his sexual or romantic desire for her. I definitely don't want to take a lot of shots at Robin just based on some old episodes from 50 years ago. I know she had a great deal of trauma in the part, whereas Nancy was only there for part a decade and never returned. I suppose it's just, as you said, we were all talked out about Dorian after what was done with her in the show's later years, and now suddenly we are reminded of what could have been. I didn't mind the mansion either, I just think taking everything might have led to a fresh approach with the character and given Robin a new set of cards.

According to Schemering's book, GH's organ music was inventive and fun, which is one of the reasons it held on so long. I thought of Dorian and David too. They are what Dorian and David were around 1995. Later on they either made David too good or they made him too comedic to the point of being brain dead. I often wanted to see someone kick him in the ass in his later appearances. The only value he brought was showing just how much Ford struggled to rock a Speedo. I know Robin became so OTT out of job security (or that's one of the big theories), but it's still sad to think of what Dorian became. And we should never see her under the table servicing someone. By that point the character had lost so much of herself. If OLTL had gone on I wish they could have taken away all the trappings, like the mansion and the whole "Cramer women" crutch, and maybe we could have seen those flashes of Pinkerton again.

That's a good idea about Dan leaving the family but not dying oncamera (which they'd do with Gunnar later on - although they never brought him back either). Dreary characters and a moribund atmosphere were the biggest problems. The Dobsons did try to bring in some livelier characters, some of them worked, some didn't, but they also had quite a few dullards. I'm deeply grateful to be able to see this May 1979 episode, mainly for the Ralph and Joyce scene and for the moments with Dan wrestling with his illness as Kim talks about their dream home, but unfortunately this still seemed to suffer from the same problems as others I've seen from this period in having such long stretches of tedium. There was no need for the John material (much as I enjoyed seeing him with Kim), the Willows material or the material with Doug. I'd actually forgotten until Doug started going on about finding Marcia that their story was still around by the time of the WLS uploads from October/November. I find Doug to be oddly attractive but that would not be enough to make me sit through that plot for months, especially with that dreary Annie in the mix. And the Willows going on for months and months is also questionable to me. I still like the gothic feel and Lisa being in a new setting, but Bennett isn't well cast, and the mystery is already too obvious. I don't really think the Don and Joyce scene is as strong as it could be either. I am not sure if the episode before this had Don overhearing, but the way it was executed here where we just hear him ask to talk to her afterward and then most of his reaction amounts to mean mugging - it doesn't work for me. The biggest issue may be that I'm not sure there was any need for ATWT to be an hour show. Kim/Dan and Joyce/Don/Ralph were all we should have had and would have had in a half hour. Even with all the stunts the Dobsons brought in, a lot of early '80s still feel tedious. I don't think the show ever figures out how to work in the hour format until around 1984 or 1985. I did love the Ralph and Joyce moment though, mainly through Barbara Rodell's performance - she managed to make you feel sorry for Joyce as she is clearly insane. The cliffhanger with Joyce is also somewhat effective, even if it made me think of poor Anton Yelchin. I wonder if this episode is the last mention of Sandy Hughes (or whatever her last name was by the end).

Those July 1980 ATWT/GL episodes had been up before (on one of the pannoni channels) but these may be different recordings, I can't remember if those had the commercials included or if those were posted separately. Either way, it's nice to see them again, especially the GL episode as there's some good Rita content, and early Vanessa.

I saw on an old Youtube comment that they should have kept Lisa and Joyce as rivals for longer by killing Mary and having a whodunit. That could have been interesting (I know GH was doing the same with Diana around the same time, but there's no such thing as originality).

Not sure how recent these interviews are (they do mention the oral history) but they are interviews with Tom Lisanti and Louise Shaffer. I should warn they sound like they were recorded while being buried underground.

Thanks. That would be so lovely to see. I'm glad at least we have the recap. I saw Susan Lucci's comments recently about Agnes being the first to have glamour or humor on soaps. I don't think that's entirely true (you have glamour with Meg on Love of Life, or comedy with Stu and Marge on Search for Tomorrow), but she may have been the first to fuse everything into one product and to allow viewers to accept that fusion. (the only fusion involving AMC I would support)