DRW50

I think it's because JFP did not see GL as a community-based show, unless the community was a shantytown in service to her friends. We were meant to be honored by their presence.

Thanks @Soapsuds Only a few minutes in and I run into the buzzsaw of sanctimonious, dreary-ass Mallet, reminding me all over again of how he drained Harley of life. If he and Nick were ever in any scenes together the air would have literally been sucked out of the room, leaving corpses on the floor. Holly and Blake had such an interesting relationship under Sherry and Maureen. It was always so believably fraught. Very ahead of its time in many ways - the type of relationship you'd end up getting on "peak TV." Liz was a good enough actress, but she often played Blake as much weaker on the surface, whereas you knew how vulnerable Blake was under Sherry, but she put up a front, just like her dear mother. That Royal Family/Davis Rules promo is torturous. Maybe Jackee already got the vibes about Randy Quaid. Even when the stories aren't necessarily compelling, we get to see different stories and character groups interacting (like Alan-Michael and Billy). That was one of the things which often drew me to ATWT and GL. I never knew they were playing around with Jenna/Fletcher. Beverlee breaking your heart in that paternity "reveal" scene. She got a bit more OTT in her last year or so in the part, at times, but she is subtle and devastating here. Ugh Nick.

I am glad so many came out. There is always a sneering from leftists about these protests, as many of them hate women and love Trump, but they are key to any future - whatever we have left of it. Tim Walz and other Democrats are using Kamala's comment to "well actually" and relitigate more reminders of how awful a campaign the party ran. They can say this all they want, but even if it wasn't a great campaign (and I'd agree it wasn't - although it was decent, especially given the time constraints and baggage), the voting public was not waiting for some bullet points, either from the James Carville peak early '90s era or from the socialist buzzword era of Bernie and the grifters. Most of the public voted for hate and bigotry and death. They love it. Even now many are cheering these tariffs, blatantly saying it's because they want people they hate (anyone who isn't a rich white straight man) to die. No amount of going on Joe Rogan will change those views.

That's mostly down to Marj and Ron (well, mostly Marj) - it was never the Alex/Alan relationship with Beverlee and her Alans. I could go on and have gone on about GL's many problems by this point, but I do miss a great deal of the '90s on soaps - even when the stories weren't there (and they often weren't), you still had decades of history, a sense of community, actors you knew or who felt real to you, and a sense of community. Those were saving graces for GL around this time. There's nothing wrong with missing those days, especially if the period is new to you and you don't have the baggage. And you're being very polite about BtG compared to some in the show's thread who have had a lot of concerns about it, so no offense taken.

I'd guess no but I haven't read it.

My Boyfriend's Back. ABC LOVE in the AFTERNOON Album 1982 A fun old recording from Sharon Gabet. Never knew Larkin was on an Ellery Queen cover.

They went so far from one direction to another, from darkness to comedy. I can see why they did, but it made Jack very difficult to even see as a character. And he really wasn't a character when Mark Valley and Steve Wilder played him. They have given Jack more serious material again in the last decade, but I'm not sure any of it was especially worthwhile. That clip is long gone from Youtube but I was always fascinated by the "rape slap" clip. On paper, it's horrendous - Jennifer has been raped and is hiding her rape, which leads her to slap Jack when he tries to kiss her, while Jack believes she is calling him a rapist (as she literally says, "stay away from me, you rapist.") I could say they were trying to make us feel sorry for Jack or play "good rapist" and "bad rapist." But Melissa and Matt played the hell out of all the melodrama and instead of just being "poor Jack," it came across more as reminding viewers that Jack would never get past what he did to Kayla. (I assume it's never brought up with Jack and Kayla now, if they ever even interact)

It would have been tough to see him as Alan because I think he was more suited to roles where he reacted to characters like Alan, but if they had revamped Alan, having him as more introspective and darker after prison (as Lester seemed to have lost most of the spark he had as Jack by the time he was on ATWT), it could have worked. You're right about why they began catering to loud fan groups. I think it was also down to P&G no longer having any proper structure for the shows. They just gave up on having any standards. Even Rauch went out and blasted Matt/Vanessa fans - can't see that happening with later producers. (I will say I never heard of Matt and Vanessa fans sending death threats, unlike other fanbases)

This was never a big issue with the show compared to other soaps, maybe aside from Quint/Nola. I suppose we can blame the Internet. The whole Danny/Michelle mess in particular mystifies. I guess they saw NSA as someone they could identify with. I have nothing against her personally, I haven't heard anything bad about her, but I don't think Danny and Michelle needed to stay together after their split in 2000. I remember a bit with Irizarry but most of it was Colon, IIRC. The scene with the most blatant shift is the one where Selena, in the highlight of a truly wretched storyline, went to her for help as she was being beaten up and terrorized, and Colon's Maria spat, "Puta!" at her.

Thanks for the extra details. I definitely remember Holly vanishing long before Wheeler. Looking at this list, other than Jerry, I don't really disagree with most of the cuts...but yes, not using Jerry more was a big mistake, both for her and Conboy. I still wonder if it was some P&G mandate about Bradley Cole, but who knows, maybe Wheeler adored him. I'm not sure if it was his choice to leave partway through GL's last year or not. Smart move to not let Crystal go. I can see Beth doing OK in that OLTL part, even if that role was a bottomless pit. I wouldn't have missed Beth Raines. And then as Paige was going nowhere fast, they could have always brought Beth C back anyway. I thought Maria was more interesting because she started out as softer until the Labines made her so wicked, and frankly, the actress was just better. But they didn't do anything interesting with this shift, and the Santos overstayed their welcome by much too long. Danny was the main one worth keeping, but as mentioned, him constantly needing to go back to Michelle suffocated him, even as PAS was one of the show's best.

Sorry for not remembering to tag you.

I don't think he needed Debbie. I also think the story is very typical of the Tates, who were often conniving and cold, but it has no real legs if he's just back to be a baddie who causes problems for the Dingles.

I tend to share many of those views. My issues with Deas were also down to how I felt like Buzz kept Nadine in a bubble and sapped her spirit, although after a few years I was able to accept him. Thank you for sharing more of her comments. I can see where she might feel that way from a backstage point of view, but IIRC, Jerry and Maureen had already been downgraded before Wheeler (although they may have still been on contract). Holly I distinctly remember vanishing around the time of Conboy as Taggart/Rauch had been putting her in more story. As for Marj, she had been fired and left repeatedly, and I don't think - much as I respect Marj as a human being and an actress - she ever brought any "veteran influence" to GL. She was written into a corner almost immediately and never left. I didn't even know that Marj ever left GL during Wheeler's stint, I guess because I barely watched for years, but when I went back for the last year, she was there, had been there for a while, and didn't seem that badly used by the standards of her past years. I don't want to just kick the hell out of GL, because it still had many great moments for many years, but I think the breaking of the formula she has mentioned probably happened around the time she joined. I do understand why she would not see it that way, and I am not blaming her - it was happening whether she had joined or not, as the first pieces were around 1981 when P&G started dumping vets and actors they didn't see as young/hot enough.

Kim must have had a much more positive view of the show than many fans did in the mid/late '90s or early/mid '00s. I had mostly stopped watching GL by this time precisely because of so much done in those years, especially the stuff the Labines (or whoever) did in 2000/2001 and then Conboy/Weston did in 2003, felt heartless and crass to me. There were certainly moments in the Wheeler era which I could say the same for, but I wonder if Kim would agree with me, considering they were some of her biggest and most celebrated stories in years (Jonathan's terror campaigns). It's also interesting that she feels Wheeler took the heart away because I think her run did bring more of the old core of Reva back than the Rauch or Conboy eras ever had. I wonder if, like Erika Slezak and Linda Gottlieb, there was just too much of a personality difference, although Erika did at least have some praise for Linda's effect on OLTL. GL was dying no matter who was in charge. The show was incredibly lucky to last as long as they did. They didn't need anyone to kill it off. That Wheeler managed to get the show five more years still surprises me. That is by far the best of the character. Thanks. That's what I remember too (and then maybe someone dragged her off?). The dancing was nice, at least. The cigar...awful.

Some seem deliberately cheesy (like the one about why Patch has an eyepatch, which made me laugh), while some others are just the worst excesses of the period (mainly that first promo, which looked like a Fleetwood Mac video - and poor Genie, so horribly styled). I love the "thank you for making us #1" promo because if we are meant to believe it's the characters thanking us, we're meant to believe Victor took time from drug-running and terrorizing Salem to express his gratitude to us. I do appreciate the expense in filming that Patch and Kayla promo set out in a "real" Salem, but I was distracted by the dry-cleaning sign. Was that meant to be a real business in Salem? I liked the short promo (again using real film stock) advertising Generations - set in Chicago! Those two promos with Jack couldn't be more different. Hard to believe they were only about 3 years apart. Still, took more time than Luke Spencer or Todd Manning. Seeing Adrienne reminds me of how dirty the show did that character. If I knew where they were I might watch some clips of Marina as I remember some fans saying she finally gets interesting in the last months of her life (when she is obsessed with "the key").

They didn't. I do wonder if they could have considered asking them for brief returns, but there wasn't much story or purpose - Nick was never very popular with viewers, so the most you could have gotten was him checking up on Alex. Alan-Michael's return with the too-young recast had been a flop. A shame how so many of these errors get through.

That was just kind of typical Josh to me, but you are right. I'd forgotten they did that with Matt. I don't think I remember any of the ball aside from that one moment. Looking back, they had so many balls and parties in those few years - amazing when you think of the budget by the last years. Speaking of the end, it reminds me of the mention in the article chrisml posted of Santa Barbara having an ending involving friendship and family at a wedding. Didn't that ending also involve Kirsta Tesreau (there's our GL connection) about to gun one of them down? Odd choice to include for a happy ending. Or maybe she was stopped at the last minute. I don't remember.

She also got called out a fair amount during the first few years of her return, sometimes to an offputting degree, like when she went to a New Year's Ball with Alan and Josh decided to shame her for selling herself to boys for "a piece of pie," or something along those lines. I was horrified. I don't want to go back and rewatch the scenes to remember them better.

I wasn't watching by then but there was so much involving Jonathan and Reva that people were seemingly supposed to handwave just because of who they were. You're right. It didn't come out until after they had gotten married. IIRC, they tried to make sure we knew he didn't actually have sex with any women and instead just gave them drinks by the pool while wearing a Speedo, or whatever, which I always thought was an odd choice, presumably someone chickening out behind the scenes. Either way, I think Vanessa would have had more of a problem just because it would be a reminder of what different worlds they were from. @chrisml Thanks for the articles. I could swear that was Grant, not O'Leary, bare-chested in the photo. The MADD interview from 2002 is interesting, like her saying she wanted to establish a teen set similar to what she believed was a hit on ATWT - did she mean Aaron and Alison and whoever else? I can't say I was bothering to sit through the show by that point, although I know Jessica Dunphy's Alison had some fans. GL had already been trying the same for several years with Marah. Then Marina. The journalist's mother being upset over Bradley Cole's exit is a great example of why they brought him back (although I wonder if any of those fans actually liked Jeffrey).

Welcome. I'm always glad to see new people here. Some fascinating ideas. I did like Toby Poser but I would have brought Kathleen Cullen back too - and Frank Beaty playing a Spaulding would have been a great addition to the family.

I was also not really watching by this point, but that's also what I remember. I want to agree, but this is a case where I don't really care. It seems more character-driven than many stories by that point - once you get past all the generic fantasy land material Vanessa and Matt had in the late '90s, you have two very incompatible people, one of them being a woman who wanted to be in control after being hurt by men, another a construction worker and prostitute (even if the show tried to clean that up, he was a prostitute - no shame in it, he needed the money, etc.) who was thrust into a world of wealth far beyond his imagining. Then you have the weird vibes Dinah/Matt always had.

I haven't watched this since the first 4-5 Bravo seasons. Time changes, but I did feel bad for Tim Gunn over not being asked back, beyond a brief cameo.

Sorry - just saw I hadn't tagged you. I tried to remember everybody I thought might be interested but I knew there was someone... Anyway, it felt like they were trying to hide the actor playing Phil in this (Martin West), but I see he had already been on the show for a while, so I guess that wasn't the case. Maybe it just looks that way because this print is B&W.

Moviecraft has put up March 11, 1968 - earlier this year they put up March 12th, so now you can watch them back-to-back if you wish. @FrenchFan @Vee @vetsoapfan @depboy @Contessa Donatella @GymnastGuy @carolineg @janea4old @Maxim @dragonflies @Dion @Khan @Liberty City @titan1978 @AdelaideCate007 @jam6242 @cassadine1991 @dc11786 @Soaplovers Nice to see a bit of Sharon, proto-Amy and probably the only somewhat upbeat character around.

I'm glad they haven't killed the character off yet. Somehow after years away Ric returns to some of the only complex relationships on the show, all with women he has real chemistry with (and he also works well with Molly).