ALL: General Retro Soap Discussion

[Franko]

It might be a fool's errand, but I thought we could utilize this thread for talking about more than one series (especially when the discussion might be about three-five soaps at a time), and use the individual threads for show-specific discussion. I'm certainly not going to nag or insist about it, and if the thread dies, so be it, but here we go.

[Vee]

No, I don't mind the OP at all. It might be a good idea for comparing and contrasting shows of the '70s (especially the P&G shows). I am still going to keep single show-specific talk to the classic threads for each though.

[Contessa Donatella]

Lately, some of us, including me, have been kind of all over the place. Almost meandering. Sort of like a pub crawl but without alcohol. It may have been Michael Malone's fault. But it could have been Agnes. Whose ever fault it was, nice to have this topic where we can move to it.

[Contessa Donatella]

I just did a re-watch of "Tomorrow 1975 on Soap Operas". This can be found on Dailymotion and also on Rumble. Its been years since I first watched it. This was the late-late night Talk show hosted by Tom Snyder, RIP. For the time it was really a remarkable look at daytime.

 

It was shot at 30 Rock in NYC at the studio where "The Doctors" was produced. Most of the show they are sitting in Steve & Carolee's family room & at every break they are playing the audio to the opening of that soap.

 

His guests were: Joe Stewart, Producer at that soap; Mary Stuart, Jo of SFT; Agnes Nixon, creator & HW of AMC; and finally Bryna Lowe, who published a weekly newsletter that did summaries of the 13 soaps on the air, then.

 

Things of interest:

 

Joe Stewart revealed that his soap at that time was 10 episodes ahead. Two different people stated that 15% of their audience were men. Joe added that they were evenly split between the very young & the very old. Tom stated that 50 million people were watching soaps. He added that there are 5 monthly magazines devoted to these soaps. He also said there were 13 soaps on the air.

 

Agnes said that what is different about soaps today is the pacing, being faster. Also when asked what a soap needs to be successful, she replied, "Believable, interesting characters."

I was surprised that Agnes broke Godwin's Law. In talking about villains she said there aren't many Hitlers. What she meant was more gray characters not all black or all white. Several people talked about villains & their thinking that they were right.

 

Tom asked if there were any taboo subjects left. Bryna spoke about homosexuality & how it hasn't been done yet. Among other things she said it had almost been done & that when it does happen on some soap, that it will take a long time to tell it. That it can't be just dropped in.

 

 

 

[Paul Raven]

Bryna Laub

[Contessa Donatella]

Thank you. I checked CC for this & it gave me Lowe, Laub & Lau!!!!

[Maxim]

I think this cute little topic is the perfect place for a cute little question I have.

Which soap do you guys think (from the cancelled ones) in it's entirety - from start to finish... managed MOST to preserve it's quality? That would mean - the least RUINED... when the time for final curtain came. I've heard of some shows being completely destroyed before going off...  

So, repeating the question with another nuance - Which show stood the test of time, change of head-writers, regimes and etc MOST... ? 

And why not answer the contrary question - Which one was THE MOST ruined, went through most destructive changes and in the end was just a shadow of it's former self?

 

[Reverend Ruthledge]

In my opinion, which comes from limited knowledge of most soaps, I would say ATWT managed to most preserve its quality (albeit an extremely weakened quality from its glory days) and AW was the most ruined by it's end. I consider the first ten years of AW to be soap opera at its best and everything after those first ten years to be soap opera at its worst. I think ATWT had enough good left to be saved (in the right hands) even to the very end. 

[Franko]

Those are very good questions. I had actually considered asking a similar one about which of the legacy soaps (debuted in the '50s and '60s) handled modernization (specifically the '70s and '80s) the best.

For the first question, I think of two shows that debuted in the '70s, All My Children and Ryan's Hope. The problem is, their matriarch was never that far away from either show, so you can't necessarily appraise their independence the way you could, say, One Life to Live after Agnes Nixon or As the World Turns after Irna Phillips. (Just to name one show from either lady.)

I'm afraid I don't have a clear answer for the second question.

[Contessa Donatella]

Oh, darling, this is not at all a cute question! This is a hideously difficult question. Alright, though, I will take up the challenge, but I'm going to talk my way through it. 

Wait, could I talk you into an alternate question?

What soap had the worst finale episode/s?

What soap had the best finale episode/s?

How about it?

 

 

[Maxim]

 

I'm answering to both of you guys in a merged post, because your replies actually confirm what I've been told by a soap opera fan friend of mine - that AMC and ATWT were the shows that aged best and that maintained most of it's quality through the years. I haven't seen this with my own eyes, but your posts are another testament to this opinion. Everything, of course... is beautifully subjective. 

[Contessa Donatella]

I very specifically know ATWT does not even have a chance for one huge reason: Chris Goutman. And, of course, many reasons accrue to that major overriding one. ATWT was not only utterly ruined by cancellation from the fan POV of watching it but also from the other POV, going from having the reputation of being the happiest set to work on to one of great & continued stress & misery. IMO, of course. 

[Maxim]

 Can I answer these questions in... 5 years time? 

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Why - I still haven't watched many of these last episodes. I think I have only seen Sunset Beach's last episode. Hahhaha. You, darling, are a soap opera encyclopedia and you have seen SO MUCH more than me. I... am on the other side of the spectrum - I'm new with most of the cancelled soaps. And I actually learn from people like you.

 

[Contessa Donatella]

Hmmm. Grumble. Grouse. ... Okay, I pick back up with 

Alright, though, I will take up the challenge, but I'm going to talk my way through it. 

Looking at the decimated NY soap scene that I loved so ... it can't be either of the earliest EON or SFT. As I already said there's no way in Hades that it's ATWT. I already said why but add in the Martha Byrne debacle & then, look at the finale, which was just awful. 

It can't be my precious GL even though it was the only soap that tried to reinvent itself which it gets points for, but it didn't succeed at that & its failure was not even elegant to see, instead it was very ugly & messy but not messy in a good way. So, those are empty points. 

It can't be my precious AW either even though the people, the cast & staff & crew valiantly fought the good fight to the very bitterest of endings. Then, of course, its two-day finale is absolutely notorious for how it is hated. 

All that leaves is AMC & OLTL. Oh, wait, I've just ignored RH, LOV, The City ... but realistically it cannot be any of them. 

BTW, two excellent finales are SFT & RH!

This is so hard! Between Agnes's two major ABC babies, which is it? The red-headed stepchild or the diamond in the crown?

Okay, OLTL is runner-up & Miss Congeniality.

AMC takes the prize. Cue the orchestra to play the theme song. 

[Maxim]

Oh my god! I'm not gonna lie. I expected this level of dedication, passion and love for the genre from you... and I got it! Thank you, darling! You just are becoming the 3rd person to pick AMC as the least-destroyed soap overall. And that... as a new AMC fan... makes me so excited that... I have decades of episodes waiting for me to watch. I am literally blushing from excitement (I always blush when I'm excited!)! 

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