ALL: What ingredients make a good soap?

[titan1978]

I know we have gone over this in broad ways many times on the site. I am curious what you think each of the four current shows need to have for you to consider them set up for success?

For me-

GH needs a strong hospital core of characters, and also the classic thriller umbrella storylines. I just think the show is best when you have both at the same time.

DAYS should have high romance and a sense of danger. DAYS was always watchable when you had people falling in and out of love, and a good antagonist to keep stories moving.

Y&R needs old school glamour and dramatic staging, with heightened but also somehow reserved emotions and actual business stories involving Jabot. The only show to have business stories I cared about.

B&B I have never really watched to be honest. But from what I have seen, and read about it, I think it needs a Spectra type crew to go head to head with the Forresters. Scrappy, rootable, maybe a little shady, and fun to combat the stuffy nature of the well to do characters.

Whats makes these shows successful to the rest of the board?

[Planet Soap]

Totally agree about Y&R

GH needs a SMALLER cast with more focused stories that have clear direction, and a clear beginning middle and end date. With characters like Cyrus GH seems to be hot with them one minute, randomly abandoned them for months, and then randomly resume their story months later. 

B&B needs to abandon the Liam/Hope/Steffy; Brooke/Taylor/Ridge triangles and focus on the business of fashion, the drama of navigating celebrity-hood and more creative stories outside of romance.

DAYS- i dont watch modern episodes

[Faulkner]

GH feels written on the fly with *very* broad-strokes plotting, but the way the show manages time and actor availability really doesn’t help. It does need to structure stories so that they have momentum for more than two weeks at a time. Overall, I’d be happy with what’s been said thus far, but there should also be some elements of fun and family (chosen family) coming through. Not just all darkness and depression and heavy masculine energy all the time. Not every villain has to be murderous or psycho or the Big Bad.

And it also needs sexy, romantic elements as well: maybe not as prominently as DAYS, but if it overcorrected a bit, I wouldn’t be mad.

Y&R needs to amp up the melodrama and get up deeper inside the heads of its characters to expose their psychological states and romantic longing. (NOT like the stupid Billy stuff in recent years.) Some people may find it cheesy or outdated, but I even liked it when the characters talked to themselves. Lingering close-ups. The characters on today’s Y&R feel incredibly flat. It could dare to be a little anachronistic. The show would stand out more in a good way.

I think Bradley *thinks* he’s doing a Spectra-like underdog story with the Logans as the foil, but that dog won’t bark. The Logans aren’t defined nearly as well, and the characterization of Hope is all over the place. And that’s another show that needs to learn how to do more than one-month arcs that don’t seamlessly connect to future storylines.

DAYS: I don’t watch.

Edited December 15, 2024 by Faulkner

[titan1978]

Absolutely. And I agree, the lingering shots and as I said, glamour, would make it stand out tremendously. And it just suits the show’s DNA.

Some clarification about what I mean by high romance from DAYS. It’s not just a supercouple thing. It’s the heightened romances the show has always told. Laura being pulled between brothers Bill and Mickey and the fallout. Doug and Julie and Addie. The supercouple era which I think starts with Marlena/Wayne’s Roman. Carrie/Austin/Sami/Lucas. I think DAYS has to have major romance for it to feel like Days of our Lives.

Edited December 15, 2024 by titan1978

[Maxim]

Good writing

Good production 

Good actors

Good directing

Good... Chemistry between all of this.

In the case of The Bold And The Beautiful:

1. Better dialogue. It's been horrible.

2.Storylines that have consequences and not everything forgotten months later.

3.No thriller elements whatsoever. They are not good at this.

4.A strong matriarch Stephanie type is missed tremendously.

5.A juicy sex scandal storyline. The only type of story that Bradley can do semi okay.

I can go on and on and on.

And.

6. More of the old background music and less the generic lifetime thriller music.

[Contessa Donatella]

As I understand it, the term supercouple was coined by mainstream media with regard to GH's Luke & LAURA when they first went on the run from Frank Smith but almost immediately the term was retroactively applied to 2 couples: ATWT's Jeff & Penny and DAYS' Doug & Julie. But, yes, the next supercouple was likely RoMar OG Roman (Wayne) & Marlena. After that, DAYS went supercouple crazy with Bope (Bo & Hope), Stayla (Steve/Patch & Kayla), Kim & Shane & onward. I think you're correct that romance has to be a staple for the show to live up to its own identity. BTW, I much preferred it when all soaps had unique identities & not so much sameness. Personally I think for DAYS to get back on track they're going to have to toss some shows & get back to being able to respond to what's working & what's not. This business of being 10 months ahead on writing & 8 months ahead on taped shows is not working, IMO. I understand how & why they got there. I just think it's time to reconsider it. Also they have to part ways with Greg Rikaart's Leo Stark & Emily O'Brien as any character. They also have to stop having actors play 2 separate parts back to back. They need to work on pacing & a sense of it being the same time all over Salem in any given day. An excellent thing would be a classic villain.

GH is too superficial & their pacing & balance is all out of whack. I don't think their current fast & furious block taping is serving them well. They desperately need to trim the size of the cast, likely cutting 15. Personally I think they ought to go ahead & roll the dice on Romantic Jarly & just see if it works or not, instead of constantly second guessing what to do. I approve of the return to more hospital stories as well as the rebuilding of the Spencers & I think they need to lift their Cassadine ban. Also, GH needs to find some way to write much better for a variety of characters but first up, the African-American players that they seem to misuse rather than use or even ignore for long periods of time. 

The last time I watched Y&R was the initial Jordan & Claire story & in general, Y&R doesn't work for me, so I would be inept at advice.

The last time I watched B&B was Maya's story, so again I'm the wrong person to do any evaluating. 

 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Contessa Donatella
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[titan1978]

I meant the first ones on DAYS. Luke and Laura are absolutely the original super couple. Sherri Anderson while working with Pat Falken Smith at GH is really the architect of the supercouple formula. I consider Marlena and Roman at DAYS the first true application of that formula on that show and post L&L. We can all agree that retroactively other couples count. Julie and Doug fitting it the most with all their obstacles and heightened romance, also under major influence by PFS who worked under Bill Bell establishing them. But they lack the thriller element that arrives with Luke and Laura and Roman & Marlena. That element is pretty integral to Anderson’s formula.

Edited December 15, 2024 by titan1978

[Contessa Donatella]

Oh, yeah, I knew what you meant about RoMar being first AT DAYS! Understood, also agree. I never thought about danger being an element. But, I see what you mean.

[Paul Raven]

Y&R

Production wise they need to return to a more stylized look in terms of lighting, camera work etc

Even with reduced budgets and time I still believe that can be achieved. Give Y&R that lush identity it once had.

Classier sets and costuming.

With so many vet characters/actors the default has been to replay the same couplings and stories over and over.

Some tough decisions need to be made re the cast. A couple of cast cuts would help alleviate the problem eg if Chelsea and say Devon/Abby or Phyllis left that would be a lot of convoluted history that could be put aside.

And leave room for new/returning characters to fill the void with fresh stories. Much stronger emphasis on delineating the character traits .

As for other vets eg Victor/Jack they need to be moved into supporting roles and still have a strong presence but not always drive story.

No cartoon villians and pointless business stories.

Longer term couples and continuing stories.

[Faulkner]

Soaps these days are constantly chem-testing to little effect. And the long-term couples they end up with up are the most milquetoast, shrug-worthy, chemistry-free pairings you can imagine. You end up with Willow/Michael or Curtis/Portia or bummers like Chase/BlazerLynn. The couples often feel so random and uninspired (like this Sally/Billy/Phyllis triangle or Abby/Devon 10 years and a recast too late) or better on paper than in practice (Kyle/Claire).

 

Preach. That goes for all these soaps. Too many characters fulfill the same roles yet are broadly drawn to enable them to be moved around like chess pieces. 

GH is embarrassing with its Black characters. And has been for the last 30 years. They are third-class citizens who will always have a ceiling on their prominence and complexity. That Portia/Trina went like six months without sharing a single scene is laughable. They would never do Carly/Joss or Alexis/Kristina/Molly like that. 

I don’t think JG will ever willingly let Stafford go, but Devon/Abby are probably already one foot out the door. MCE remains to be seen. He has tried to force her into failed relationships so many times. Maybe it’s time to admit that the character doesn’t work and let MCE spread her wings in projects that better suit her (very real) talents.

Edited December 16, 2024 by Faulkner

[Soapsuds]

Days should have drama and romance. Right now, it has neither. I'm bored beyond words.

Bold and Beautiful should have believability and pacing. It does not have either right now.

[Contessa Donatella]

Brooke Kerr is one of the most beautiful women in daytime & she is not without dramatic talent but they waste her, which they do with all of the black citizens we know in Port Charles. This iteration of Jordan is also nice looking although not as gifted an actress by any means & they have yet to pair her with anyone!

And, not only were they denied mother/daughter time, neither of them was actually seen much at all. Portia was stuck in the hospital. Didn't they give her that ludicrous line where she claimed that Willow was her favorite nurse?! Willow hasn't worked enough shifts to be anyone's favorite! And, Trina disappeared for whole weeks at a time, more than once & only had scenes with just Joss or with Joss & Gio for months! Until recently. 

 

The next to last time I watched Y&R it was to see Chelsea's suicide storyline & I thought MCE did a remarkable job with the material. 

[Taoboi]

I can tell this is going to be my kind of thread. Early thanks, Titan.

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