Jump to content

Disney+: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier


Recommended Posts

  • 1 month later...
  • Replies 24
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Members

This is one of the television series I have literally no expectations for, as it feels like such an odd match up -- their time in Civil War not withstanding. For so long Bucky has been tied to Steve, that his story now seems to be a sort of echo or inverse of what Steve's original arc was. A man lost in time, that's suffered tremendous PTSD, and now is trying to live in a world that has moved so far past him, dealing with issues that are very much beyond him. All through out Civil War and even Infinity War Bucky just seemed so tired, and determined to accept his fate, however grime it was. He was so resigned in the fact that his life was not his own, and had all but given up hope it seemed. All in all it just seems odd that Bucky's story and narrative would not be tied with Steve's, considering Bucky is Steve's entire arc. It's an open slate on where he ends up at the end of this.  

 

Sam's journey is also a blank slate, so I guess we'll see how they mesh together, and how the MCU is looking to create a story around the first Black Captain America. Captain America was so important to Marvel's first 3 phases, but sometime during the middle of phase 3 that importance began shifting more towards Thor, the Galaxy based storylines and eventually zeroing in on Spiderman as the new base. He basically ended up eclipsing Black Panther and Captain Marvel, even though their initial films did better. He got 2 films inside of 2 years, in addition to his back-pilot/cameo in Civil War. It will be interesting to see if Phase 4 will refocus back to Captain America as the base of the Avengers (my bet is not, based on the films they have already announced). Maybe by Phase 5, Mackie will lead it, or if he will just be like an Ant Man equivalent now that Marvel has their properties back, and they will forget about their old toys in favor of the new. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I don't think Spidey eclipsed BP at all - it was a massive success and a huge awards winner, and hugely influential culturally. Plus, there was never any intention for Marvel to rush out CM2 or BP2 before the next Spidey film. Captain Marvel also came in much, much closer to the end. They were always planning for those characters and others to lead the next phase in their sequels, and I'm pretty sure that is still the plan. I don't think anyone ever eclipsed the original Cap in importance though. It was just how the choice in scheduling went. Ragnarok was very well received and beloved but no one was forgetting Steve Rogers.

 

This series is almost certainly inspired heavily by a very specific storyline in the classic Mark Gruenwald Captain America run in the 1980s and early 90s, except it's missing Steve Rogers himself. I'm pretty sure Sam functions in Steve's role in that story. Same goes for the upcoming "Armor Wars" series, which is named for a classic Iron Man story but will almost certainly feature Rhodey/War Machine in Stark's role. It's actually ingenious that both classic stories still work minus both Steve and Tony with a few tweaks - they deal in legacy. I do think Mackie will remain central going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think we are talking about two slightly different things, you are talking a bit about audience reception (Black Panther and Captain Marvel, were much more popular and well received than Marvel likely predicted), and I am referring to network/executive focus, which scheduling and prioritization of which films go first is apart of.

 

Spiderman having two films per phase is Iron Man level focus (he also had two films during Phase 1 of the MCU), that feels like he is being pushed above and beyond the other heroes, by MCU's leadership team. The only reason I mentioned this, is because I think it can forecast or project how the MCU will push "prized" projects in the future. As much as Feige claims that Captain Marvel will be the most important character moving forward in the MCU it just doesn't feel that way when we look at investment dollars and place them side by side dollars to donuts. Maybe they do want to invest (similar to them wanting to invest in Black Widow back in 2015 but no dice), but that investment hasn't actually happened, at least from what we can see.  

 

Please register in order to view this content

 

I just hope the MCU doesn't forget about the characters that got them here, and made it possible for them to purchase back the rights of the other franchises they previously sold off (X Men, Fantastic Four, etc.). That's my main concern with Phase 5, that they will pretty much forget the rich history they've developed because they got their new and favorite toys back, and are all too ready and keen to reset their stories, make a huge cash grab with their most identifiable properties and forget about the characters who made the MCU possible, and the Avengers as a larger concept.

 

This could all be over speculation, but it does feel like the prioritized individualized characters and properties right now has been Spiderman, and for awhile. Sunsetting Captain America and Iron Man aside, they've been keen to promote Spiderman over Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Dr. Strange -- the base of the MCU Phase 4 going forward.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

We're not. For one thing, Fox had partial control over their Spider-Man release slate during that initial time, it was not entirely a Marvel choice. And Spider-Man is an important character, but Marvel has always been measured and careful in their rollout of new properties, not overloading them. They did not sideline Captain Marvel or BP for Spidey, they simply took their time and are still doing so. Spider-Man is a proven seller and they wanted to get him set in the universe without having to go through the arduous process of reestablishing a third Spidey in the public consciousness in recent years - they did that. And as for Black Widow, the only reason there wasn't a film sooner is because old right wing Ike Perlmutter vetoed it for years, until Feige got him thrown out of meddling in the MCU completely.


I'm not seeing any evidence that they are "forgetting" the characters that got them here. CM2 and BP2 are both actively going forward.

Please register in order to view this content

 

Both have a place on the slate. The X-Men don't, yet. I know these properties at least as well as you do and I'm simply not seeing what you are seeing. YMMV.

Edited by Vee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • A black family having a white maid would be a good subversion of stereotypes. Also want to say that while the overall show has many flaws, the biggest one that's legitimately stifling is the lack of a rival family.
    • I also do not like the bits I've seen with Delia during Labine's 83 return. I am glad when she came back for the last time in 1986, she allowed Delia to move on from Frank. 
    • Thanks for the well-detailed reply. I'm fairly early in my viewing, so I have some time before it goes nuts. Thanks a lot! @kalbir and @DRW50 thank you so much. I am just approaching 100 episodes, so I'm good for now. 
    • The Duprees as the main family isn't the problem, but the fact is that over 3/4 of the cast are Duprees.. so it limits coupling potential and also keeps the canvas too closed in. Too many female Duprees and no hetero, nor gay, male Duprees is also a problem.   I also agree with @DemetriKanethat the male characters are one note, and not very layered/interesting... outside of Bill, that is. To me, I would have focused on either Nicole's family and dynamics or Dani's family and dynamics instead of trying to introduce/develop both families at the same time.  Nicole's family is more developed and interesting with loads of storyline possiblities then Dani's family right now. And because MVJ and co decided to feature so many Duprees... we're less likely to be free of any outside characters like Ashley/Derek since they're the non-Dupree part of the canvas.
    • BTG: A B&B: B DAYS: B+ GH: A- Y&R: C-
    • I can not see Kat as a police officer and do not want that for her. Thats not her passion nor does she care about that stuff. The stuff with Eva and Leslie is specific to her life and wanting to protect her family. Her "detective" skills have more to do with her business background, which makes her very analytical and pay close attention to details. If this show had a corporation, she'd make a shrewed businesswoman and CEO I definitely dont want to see her sleep with her cousin's husband. That would be too much of a Hayley redux which ironically you dont want with the Sharon/Hayley theory
    • I would make Jan, Ashley's mom, Anita and Vernon's maid. It would lock in to why Leslie would choose to befriend both her and Mona. It also gives Ashley a connection to the Duprees and explains how she befriended Naomi. I would have had Derek start the show as a cop to explain his connection to Jacob. Kat needs to realize that she is MADE to be a detective. Have her go through police training, making the appropriate comments about the uniform along the way. Have her prove she is so much more than a rich princess, even to herself. Then, when Jacob's partner is proven to be dirty, Kat is assigned as Jacob's rookie trainee. At the same time, Naomi does finally get a case she can follow through on. Her client is a person that Jacob arrested. This puts them at odds because Jacob knows this person did it, as does Kat, but Naomi only sees the extenuating circumstances and believes he deserves a lighter sentence and a second chance. THAT is when Jacob will turn to Kat in frustration and she will lose her virginity to him. 
    • This opened my eyes and appeals to my logic. But, don't you also think that the fact that they are so ill-suited means that, by soap-opera-laws, they aren't a long term item?  I like how Belle is written now, so I appreciate the fact that she is in this story.  But, I don't believe anything will become of it, and I think EJ is going to mess it up very soon.  Which explains why I don't get too worked up over it. I'm also suspending my outrage until I see how EJ treats Belle during her mourning.  If he cheats with Cat, then we'll know that he was never meant to be happy.
    • Kristen also raped John post-Paris with a Magic Mirror.  Her pregnancy was "delicate" and they couldn't be intimate.  She had already lost the baby, needed to get pregnant immediately again and set a Stefano tricked out Magic Mirror to hypnotize John and John thought he was  having sex with Marlena.  John woke up the next day and thought it was a dream.
    • The show is only a few months in and still finding it's footing. I'm hoping MVJ has years of story in place for these characters and will pretty much stick to that plan (obviously with tweaking along the way) I do have some issues with the initial structure. Making the Duprees the centerpiece and not having a male with that name. Making Martin Vernon and Anita's would have solved that and made the age of the character more appropriate. I agree about not having a young couple in the beginnings of a romance. And having too many married couples. Jacob and Naomi could be just living together. That makes the possibility of other relationships more viable than within a marriage. Same with Smitty/Martin. Having them married with kids limits the story especially in terms of them as a gay couple.  The white characters existing in another universe is also a problem. That ties in with the workplace/job issues. I don't think they needed the hospital-instead the police station/real estate office or Martin's workplace could have utilized and have Derek/Ashley/Vanessa/Smitty/Shanice etc working and interacting there. ATM too many characters are meeting up in cafes etc-we're not seeing them at work. We needed to see more of how various characters interact eg Jacob/Bill, Ted/Bill. There were a lot of extended family scenes but there should be more one on one to get a sense of character and family dynamics. Leslie is a great character but her bag of tricks is getting over exposed. I would hate that she is kept on and other character's made to look like idiots by accepting her presence. They'll need some good writing and twists to keep her around. We can only hope some of the lesser actors improve as I don't want too many recasts or writeouts. So it's early days and I look forward to seeing the show evolve. And give the Duprees some staff!
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy