The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Discussion Thread

Super Bowl ad:

 

 

 

 

Some new footage here.

Spoiler

You can spot John Walker/USAgent on the roof of a truck and Zemo.

 

 

@Darn

 

 

22 hours ago, Vee said:

@Darn

 

 

 

Crossing my fingers they live up to the promise of this. Marvel would have done a real one-two punch if they can pull this off after the success of WandaVision's exploration of grief and trauma.

This is one of the television series I have literally no expectations for, as it feels like such an odd match up -- their time in Civil War not withstanding. For so long Bucky has been tied to Steve, that his story now seems to be a sort of echo or inverse of what Steve's original arc was. A man lost in time, that's suffered tremendous PTSD, and now is trying to live in a world that has moved so far past him, dealing with issues that are very much beyond him. All through out Civil War and even Infinity War Bucky just seemed so tired, and determined to accept his fate, however grime it was. He was so resigned in the fact that his life was not his own, and had all but given up hope it seemed. All in all it just seems odd that Bucky's story and narrative would not be tied with Steve's, considering Bucky is Steve's entire arc. It's an open slate on where he ends up at the end of this.  

 

Sam's journey is also a blank slate, so I guess we'll see how they mesh together, and how the MCU is looking to create a story around the first Black Captain America. Captain America was so important to Marvel's first 3 phases, but sometime during the middle of phase 3 that importance began shifting more towards Thor, the Galaxy based storylines and eventually zeroing in on Spiderman as the new base. He basically ended up eclipsing Black Panther and Captain Marvel, even though their initial films did better. He got 2 films inside of 2 years, in addition to his back-pilot/cameo in Civil War. It will be interesting to see if Phase 4 will refocus back to Captain America as the base of the Avengers (my bet is not, based on the films they have already announced). Maybe by Phase 5, Mackie will lead it, or if he will just be like an Ant Man equivalent now that Marvel has their properties back, and they will forget about their old toys in favor of the new. 

I don't think Spidey eclipsed BP at all - it was a massive success and a huge awards winner, and hugely influential culturally. Plus, there was never any intention for Marvel to rush out CM2 or BP2 before the next Spidey film. Captain Marvel also came in much, much closer to the end. They were always planning for those characters and others to lead the next phase in their sequels, and I'm pretty sure that is still the plan. I don't think anyone ever eclipsed the original Cap in importance though. It was just how the choice in scheduling went. Ragnarok was very well received and beloved but no one was forgetting Steve Rogers.

 

This series is almost certainly inspired heavily by a very specific storyline in the classic Mark Gruenwald Captain America run in the 1980s and early 90s, except it's missing Steve Rogers himself. I'm pretty sure Sam functions in Steve's role in that story. Same goes for the upcoming "Armor Wars" series, which is named for a classic Iron Man story but will almost certainly feature Rhodey/War Machine in Stark's role. It's actually ingenious that both classic stories still work minus both Steve and Tony with a few tweaks - they deal in legacy. I do think Mackie will remain central going forward.

I think we are talking about two slightly different things, you are talking a bit about audience reception (Black Panther and Captain Marvel, were much more popular and well received than Marvel likely predicted), and I am referring to network/executive focus, which scheduling and prioritization of which films go first is apart of.

 

Spiderman having two films per phase is Iron Man level focus (he also had two films during Phase 1 of the MCU), that feels like he is being pushed above and beyond the other heroes, by MCU's leadership team. The only reason I mentioned this, is because I think it can forecast or project how the MCU will push "prized" projects in the future. As much as Feige claims that Captain Marvel will be the most important character moving forward in the MCU it just doesn't feel that way when we look at investment dollars and place them side by side dollars to donuts. Maybe they do want to invest (similar to them wanting to invest in Black Widow back in 2015 but no dice), but that investment hasn't actually happened, at least from what we can see.  

 

Spoiler

There are rumors that Spiderman is filming two films simultaneously, which if correct would mean his character has had 4.25 films invested in his character, more than any other character in the universe.

 

I just hope the MCU doesn't forget about the characters that got them here, and made it possible for them to purchase back the rights of the other franchises they previously sold off (X Men, Fantastic Four, etc.). That's my main concern with Phase 5, that they will pretty much forget the rich history they've developed because they got their new and favorite toys back, and are all too ready and keen to reset their stories, make a huge cash grab with their most identifiable properties and forget about the characters who made the MCU possible, and the Avengers as a larger concept.

 

This could all be over speculation, but it does feel like the prioritized individualized characters and properties right now has been Spiderman, and for awhile. Sunsetting Captain America and Iron Man aside, they've been keen to promote Spiderman over Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Dr. Strange -- the base of the MCU Phase 4 going forward.  

21 minutes ago, Skin said:

I think we are talking about two slightly different things, you are talking a bit about audience reception (Black Panther and Captain Marvel, were much more popular and well received than Marvel likely predicted), and I am referring to network/executive focus, which scheduling and prioritization of which films go first is apart of.

 

We're not. For one thing, Fox had partial control over their Spider-Man release slate during that initial time, it was not entirely a Marvel choice. And Spider-Man is an important character, but Marvel has always been measured and careful in their rollout of new properties, not overloading them. They did not sideline Captain Marvel or BP for Spidey, they simply took their time and are still doing so. Spider-Man is a proven seller and they wanted to get him set in the universe without having to go through the arduous process of reestablishing a third Spidey in the public consciousness in recent years - they did that. And as for Black Widow, the only reason there wasn't a film sooner is because old right wing Ike Perlmutter vetoed it for years, until Feige got him thrown out of meddling in the MCU completely.

I'm not seeing any evidence that they are "forgetting" the characters that got them here. CM2 and BP2 are both actively going forward.

Spoiler

CM2 has a tease at the end of WV.

 

Both have a place on the slate. The X-Men don't, yet. I know these properties at least as well as you do and I'm simply not seeing what you are seeing. YMMV.

Edited March 5, 20214 yr by Vee

 

 

 

 

Been preoccupied with my own stuff for a couple weeks, but finally getting to this. Sebastian Stan is doing amazing work with very little dialogue in the premiere - all his eyes and micro-expressions. And I love seeing Sam's family life and background; his sister and nephews are great. Anthony Mackie is the man to lead this franchise forward. This show may not have been the mysteries of WV but it's very solid for me, at least in the first episode. The character stuff with the bank was great.

 

Rhodey's very subdued reactions to Sam giving up the shield and the military brass thanking him for doing so were exceptional work by Don Cheadle - you can tell how much he doesn't like it but how much personally and professionally constrains him. Danny Ramirez (Torres) is super hot.

 

Poor Bucky! Poor Yori!