First off, just saying i know if Susan Lucci never played Erica, she probably wouldn't have gone past being the teenager "naughty girl in town" Susan took that character and ran with it. Without Susan, there would be no "super star" Erica Kane that lasted 40 years.

But i thought i read somewhere that Agnes Nixon was writing for Another World at the begining and helped create Rachel in a way like Erica Kane because P&G didn't want her All My Children soap. I know Rachel was obsessed with marrying wealthy. and she did marry a doctor first in Russ Matthews (Like Erica with Jeff Martin) and she tried everything to break up a "supercouple" of Alice and Steve Frame (like Tara and Phil.) By the time Rachel met Mac, Erica Kane was already created on AMC so they let Rachel have her "wealthy husband" in Mac Cory (not that it was smooth sailing at all. i think they married three times.)

Another Simlarity was that Ada Davis was a working class single mother hairdresser. Mona Kane was a working class single mother doctors secretary. Of course where as Mona was sweet and put up with Erica's drama (most of the time), Ada was more outspoken and sometimes put Rachel in her place...along with everyone else. I remember one scene where Ada really let her younger daughter Nancy "have it." I think they were living at the Cory Mansion and Nancy had been bouncing checks and Ada just told her off. Mona never really did what with Erica.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPcqjR5Wu_g&feature=related

I think Rachel and Ada were harder-edged versions of Erica and Mona. There were some moments which AMC never did with Erica, like Rachel reveling in Alice's miscarriage.

Rachel being with Mac didn't have anything to do with Erica finally being created, though - Agnes was already long gone from AW by then.

Erica and Mona were created first, on paper. When P&G passed on AMC, Agnes Nixon borrowed Erica and Mona from her AMC bible and redubbed/retooled them as Rachel and Ada. One could argue that Robin Strasser essentially created the role of Erica Kane, but simply put, she was Rachel, not Erica. To me, the situation is more akin to what Tennessee Williams often did, which was sort of workshop and explore a certain character prototype, creating the definitive example along the way. There is Blanche DuBois, but there is Mrs. Fenway and the Lady of Larkspur Lotion, too. AN would use this earthy, dependable, and devoted working class mother/strong-willed, raven-haired vixen daughter duo again with Ava and Kate on Loving, and arguably, even earlier with Sadie and Carla on OLTL.

Carl is right, the change in Rachel had more to do with Harding Lemay's vision. He wanted to see what would happen if "some of Rachel's dreams came true", and he wanted to move in his own creation, Iris, as the show's bitch.

I think in some ways, at least until the rape rewrites, Erica and Mona were more of a fantasy of abandonment, and Rachel and Ada were more of a reality. Mona, for instance, was always sweet, kind, nice, and ultimately found her happy ending. I guess you could say Ada did too, but there was always a great deal of sadness and regret under the surface. Erica also found her dreams, and her demons became cute quirks. Rachel was never very cute, she was a very complicated and ultimately damaged person who just managed to overcome as best she could.

Back in the WoST days, a viewer who was watching at the time said that Rachel was more "down", more of an "around the way girl" than Erica. An example he used was that Rachel would casually call Ada "mom" while Erica was more inclined to put on airs and give Mona an, "Oh, mother!". He also said, however, that he'd have bet money that SL was instructed to watch RS because her characterization of Erica seemed just that close.

Rachel and Erica both modeled in department stores, both hoped to marry rich and respectably, and did indeed when both nabbed doctors... and in both cases that still wasn't enough. Rachel couldn't resist the dashing more glamorous charms of wealthy architect Steve. But it seems like Rachel was more content to marry well whereas under AN's pen, Erica needed FAME too.

Edited February 13, 201213 yr by SFK

I think in some ways, at least until the rape rewrites, Erica and Mona were more of a fantasy of abandonment, and Rachel and Ada were more of a reality. Mona, for instance, was always sweet, kind, nice, and ultimately found her happy ending. I guess you could say Ada did too, but there was always a great deal of sadness and regret under the surface. Erica also found her dreams, and her demons became cute quirks. Rachel was never very cute, she was a very complicated and ultimately damaged person who just managed to overcome as best she could.

I think Felicia inherited the fantasy world neuroses and glam that Erica and audiences would enjoy in the eighties and beyond before sobering, no pun intended, in her own right. Rachel definitely grew up sooner and she was tough as nails in a way that Erica never was. I would also say that VW's portrayal had a lot to do with that. She reminds me of my childhood friend's mom, they shoot you a silent look with those gigantic eyeballs and you could crap your pants

I think Felicia inherited the fantasy world neuroses and glam that Erica and audiences would enjoy in the eighties and beyond before sobering, no pun intended, in her own right. Rachel definitely grew up sooner and she was tough as nails in a way that Erica never was. I would also say that VW's portrayal had a lot to do with that. She reminds me of my childhood friend's mom, they shoot you a silent look with those gigantic eyeballs and you could crap your pants

VW's Rachel could be very girlish, almost nauesatingly so at times (at least until she dropped that and instead became a zonked out Shakespeare's Sister), but there was such a level of pure ice.

A lot of this sums up the many sides of Rachel.

Edited February 13, 201213 yr by CarlD2

VW's Rachel could be very girlish, almost nauesatingly so at times (at least until she dropped that and instead became a zonked out Shakespeare's Sister), but there was such a level of pure ice.

A lot of this sums up the many sides of Rachel.

Oh definitely, I just mean to say that VW sold tough the most convincingly.

You're right about that.

I think the best example of that was the few months Lemay was back in 1988, around the time Rachel was at war with Sharlene and Jason, and Liz told Matt about how he was conceived. She was vulnerable yet scary.

I think in some ways, at least until the rape rewrites, Erica and Mona were more of a fantasy of abandonment, and Rachel and Ada were more of a reality. Mona, for instance, was always sweet, kind, nice, and ultimately found her happy ending. I guess you could say Ada did too, but there was always a great deal of sadness and regret under the surface. Erica also found her dreams, and her demons became cute quirks. Rachel was never very cute, she was a very complicated and ultimately damaged person who just managed to overcome as best she could.

This probably sums up why I can't stand Erica as a character.

It seems, earlier on,under Nixon,Ada was more of an enabler of Rachel's behaviour,rather than the tougher character that evolved.

This is from the AWHP detailing Ada's first scenes

Sam: "Oh, hey, I forgot to tell you. Rachel called."

Ada: "[NOW A TRANSFORMATION COMES OVER THIS WOMAN AT EVEN THE MENTION OF HER DAUGHTER'S NAME. WE SEE THAT THIS IS THE ONE THING THAT SUSTAINS HER AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE ALTAR ON WHICH SHE WOULD GLADLY SACRIFICE HERSELF] Rachel! Why didn't you tell me before?"

Edited February 13, 201213 yr by Paul Raven

That's very interesting. I love reading HW's scripts with all of the intended subtext before they get broken down. Why I enjoy reading bibles.

It seems, earlier on,under Nixon,Ada was more of an enabler of Rachel's behaviour,rather than the tougher character that evolved.

This is from the AWHP detailing Ada's first scenes

Sam: "Oh, hey, I forgot to tell you. Rachel called."

Ada: "[NOW A TRANSFORMATION COMES OVER THIS WOMAN AT EVEN THE MENTION OF HER DAUGHTER'S NAME. WE SEE THAT THIS IS THE ONE THING THAT SUSTAINS HER AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE ALTAR ON WHICH SHE WOULD GLADLY SACRIFICE HERSELF] Rachel! Why didn't you tell me before?"

I guess Sam served as the Nick Davis figure.

It's interesting to me that AW brought Rachel's father in within a few years, while Agnes waited a long time for Erica (and probably should have kept on waiting, if she had any say in the matter). I wonder if she approved of Gerald Davis coming in so early.

This is Rachel's first scene in Feb 67

Sam: "What have you told her about her father?"

Ada: "That he's dead."

Sam: "Rachel may be in for a real shock someday."

...

Ada: "Rachel's gonna be a big movie star."

Sam: "Oh, sure..."

...

'THEY ARE INTERRUPTED BY THE OPENING OF THE DOOR AND RACHEL'S ENTRANCE. HER DRESS IS NOT HIGH CAMP YET SHE CERTAINLY LEANS MUCH MORE TOWARD THE OUTRE THAN THE REST OF OUR YOUNG GALS. IN THE POCKET OF HER COAT OR IN THE POCKET OF HER TOTE BAG SHE HAS A FOLDED NEWSPAPER. WE SEE IT BUT IT ISN'T DISPLAYED PROMINENTLY. THERE IS, AT HER ENTRANCE, AN IMMEDIATE SIGN FROM ADA FOR SAM TO KEEP QUIET.'

Rachel: (Intro Line) "Hi."

Ada: "Oh, hello, honey. Did you have a nice day?"

Rachel: "[sHE FALLS DOWN INTO A CHAIR] I had a long day. Modeling dull clothes for dull people."

Ada: "Oh, this was the fashion show for the Hospital Benefit?"

Rachel: "Uh huh... and there were only four of us and we had to change ten times apiece."

Ada: "Oh, you poor baby. I'll get you some coffee."

Rachel: "No, I don't want any. Just tell me when we're getting out of here? Huh, Uncle Sammy? When are Mom and me leaving for Hollywood? [TAKE ADA LOOKING QUICKLY TO SAM AND WE FADE OUT]"

Edited February 13, 201213 yr by Paul Raven

Is this all over at awhp? Great stuff. That certainly sounds very Erica. I didn't know that Ada told Rachel Gerald was dead.

I'm glad they moved on from that - I can't see Ada being that way.

It's kind of interesting, when you think about it, that there are some parallels between Rachel/Mac and Erica/Nick.