As far as OLTL's demo numbers being so much better than AMC's, I don't like using that phrase to describe a difference of two tenths of a point, or raw numbers that are never more than 300,000 viewers apart. Most statisticians, network executives and advertisers wouldn't see a significant difference at all here, because there isn't one.

There is a difference, and it's not statistically insignificant.

OLTL doing 20% better than AMC in the key demo, regularly, is not insignificant.

There is a difference, and it's not statistically insignificant.

OLTL doing 20% better than AMC in the key demo, regularly, is not insignificant.

When we are talking about 504,000 compared to 490,000, I don't think that the advertisers see a difference. But, my main point is that both numbers are bad, and both sets of numbers obviously lead to the cancellations. Advertisers, especially the high end ones, have been deciding to stop putting money into advertising on soaps for years, and when they first started leaving, the soaps were doing a whole lot better than barely drawing 500,000 of the women who they are trying to target. OLTL may be drawing more people than AMC, but the numbers are so low for both shows, and every other soap, that it doesn't matter. That's why the posts about ABC making a mistake, or that they will look silly when OLTL goes off the air don't make any sense.

Edited June 12, 201114 yr by Bella20

When we are talking about 504,000 compared to 490,000, I don't think that the advertisers see a difference. But, my main point is that both numbers are bad, and both sets of numbers obviously lead to the cancellations. Advertisers, especially the high end ones, have been deciding to stop putting money into advertising on soaps for years, and when they first started leaving, the soaps were doing a whole lot better than barely drawing 500,000 of the women who they are trying to target.

It looks like you just made a couple of numbers up there, lol. AMC and OLTL are not THAT close in the demo, yet your example (which is false) supports your theory (which is also false).

Are you a FOX News reporter by any chance?

Does all this really matter anymore? OLTL and AMC are canceled. GH is canceled too but the announcement hasnt been made yet.

My question is ...Toups will you do ratings for only 3 soaps left?

It looks like you just made a couple of numbers up there, lol. AMC and OLTL are not THAT close in the demo, yet your example (which is false) supports your theory (which is also false).

Are you a FOX News reporter by any chance?

Funny that you don't address the real point. I'll restate it. Usually, no more than 200,000 viewers separate OLTL from AMC. Since we are dealing with such small numbers for both shows, what does it matter? Neither is pulling down the type of numbers in that demo that advertisers want. And from my point of view, this is an insignificant difference. It might put OLTL ahead of AMC, but given the numbers for both shows, who cares?

Funny that you don't address the real point. I'll restate it. Usually, no more than 200,000 viewers separate OLTL from AMC. Since we are dealing with such small numbers for both shows, what does it matter? Neither is pulling down the type of numbers in that demo that advertisers want. And from my point of view, this is an insignificant difference. It might put OLTL ahead of AMC, but given the numbers for both shows, who cares?

The fact is, though, you're wrong. The audience for ALL dayparts has dropped, yet advertisers pay more now. Because despite the drop, TV is still the only place they can find that many eyeballs of a certain demo. The View is widely considered a success, yet it only pulls in about 700,000 women in the key demo....and it has done worse than OLTL in the 18-34 female demo the last few weeks. In fact, OLTL was ABC's number one show in the 18-34 female demo last week.

The numbers may be small to you, but advertisers pay a premium for those numbers, because they're not "low" for daytime. Once again, the difference between OLTL and AMC in the key demo is not insignificant, no matter how much you want to believe it.

And I'll say one more thing: I've got no horse in this race. I haven't watched a soap since I stopped watching GH in 2005. Before that, I stopped OLTL in 2003, and AMC way back in 1989. But I still check out the ratings, because I'm kind of a ratings junkie, for all dayparts. But what I notice about people like you on this board who try to argue the difference between AMC and OLTL in the key demo is negligible, is that most of the people who claim this are primarily fans of AMC. As a fan of neither right now, I think my opinion is a lot more objective.

The fact is, though, you're wrong. The audience for ALL dayparts has dropped, yet advertisers pay more now. Because despite the drop, TV is still the only place they can find that many eyeballs of a certain demo. The View is widely considered a success, yet it only pulls in about 700,000 women in the key demo....and it has done worse than OLTL in the 18-34 female demo the last few weeks. In fact, OLTL was ABC's number one show in the 18-34 female demo last week.

The numbers may be small to you, but advertisers pay a premium for those numbers, because they're not "low" for daytime. Once again, the difference between OLTL and AMC in the key demo is not insignificant, no matter how much you want to believe it.

Yes, I'm wrong, that's why networks are dropping soaps as fast as they can, and why so many advertisers have stopped advertising on soaps. They aren't doing it because of the small numbers and how much advertisers are willing to pay for those numbers, they are obviously doing it just to be mean. Advertisers will obviously pay the same amount for time on OLTL or AMC now that they did when those shows had twice as many 18-49 year old female viewers. There haven't been any articles at all over the past few years about big advertisers, like car companies, dropping their support of daytime television. And since the advertisers are paying a premium for these viewers, advertisers cutting their rates had nothing to do with the networks deeply slashing the soaps' budgets every single year. You are so right.

Edited June 13, 201114 yr by Bella20

You are so right.

Well, at least you finally admitted it. It takes a big person to do that.

I am not sure where this idea that advertisers are paying more money to advertise on soaps more now than they ever have came from. It's simply not true. They aren't attracting big advertising dollars. The fact that OLTL might command $5000 more for a commerical than THe View does doesn't really mean much(and I am not saying thats ever true). Soaps don't generate the same money they did for the networks, they are no longer cash cows, they no longer support the development of primetime TV shows as they once did. They may still make money but they are no longer a strategic programming option for the networks. If they were the networks would not be cancelling them.

The fact is, though, you're wrong. The audience for ALL dayparts has dropped, yet advertisers pay more now. Because despite the drop, TV is still the only place they can find that many eyeballs of a certain demo. The View is widely considered a success, yet it only pulls in about 700,000 women in the key demo....and it has done worse than OLTL in the 18-34 female demo the last few weeks. In fact, OLTL was ABC's number one show in the 18-34 female demo last week.

The numbers may be small to you, but advertisers pay a premium for those numbers, because they're not "low" for daytime. Once again, the difference between OLTL and AMC in the key demo is not insignificant, no matter how much you want to believe it.

And I'll say one more thing: I've got no horse in this race. I haven't watched a soap since I stopped watching GH in 2005. Before that, I stopped OLTL in 2003, and AMC way back in 1989. But I still check out the ratings, because I'm kind of a ratings junkie, for all dayparts. But what I notice about people like you on this board who try to argue the difference between AMC and OLTL in the key demo is negligible, is that most of the people who claim this are primarily fans of AMC. As a fan of neither right now, I think my opinion is a lot more objective.

Well, I'm not an AMC fan and I agree with those stating that the numbers are so close statistically that it virtually insignificant except for bragging rights to those who deem to do so. If OLTL was the number one show on ABCD then there is a problem because those numbers are not good which is also a reason why everyone is saying that daytime is not pulling in the ad money anymore. If Hoover is any indication of what advertiser's are paying I can understand because that is not premium cost. Advertiser's are not paying more now where did you get that info from, it has been stated numerous times from varies venues that daytime ad rates have dropped especially with the economy being what it is.

If things were going as you said there wouldn't be this push for alternate, cheaper programming. The reality of the situation is that soaps are doing horribly as a whole, OLTL numbers are not impressive at all, when they start hitting Y&R demo numbers then start talking about the wrong show being cancel until then the network was justified in cancelling the shows.

I think it's funny how One Life to Live ALWAYS takes center stage in these threads, I don't know what it is...

Thanks SON as always for the ratings