Y&R: Kahlil drops a bomb on buzzworthy radio

[y&r_fan]

I dare you to type the phrase "Australian heritage" into the search engine and try to find where I said that.

They can dislike Khalil all they want. I don't care. My issue with this thread isn't about Khalil. It's about all of the race garbage. To say Khalil "isn't in touch with her black side" just because she has issues with Rowell is just... ugh.

Yes, because there's just not enough controversy at SON already. Seriously, if you think I'm trying to start controversy, don't reply.

An attempt to elicit sympathy for Khalil? Why would I do that? I'm not even a huge fan.

You mean like everyone else has?

[bellcurve]

LOL. Well I must assume since you were banding against "racism" when you first arrived onto the scene, that the Aussies do have their own "heritage" and I have to assume that is a huge part of who you are. The quote marks were merely there for emphasis of a key term. It wasn't a direct quote of you.

Have you been reading this thread or any others? There you go again, running your mouth and jumping to snap conclusions instead of reading what people are saying, automatically ready to defend.

The "in touch with her black side" has absolutely NOTHING to do with Rowell and has everything to do with:

a.) the way she plays her character

b.) the way she allows the writers and TPTB to make her character look and be anything but a black person(and again, not meaning stereotypical black person like GH's Beulah, but someone like Victoria Rowell's Dru who had professional stories but wasn't whitewashed like, say, OLTL's Evangeline)

c.) the fact that when she is confronted with questions like, "Should there be more diversity on Y&R and in daytime," her answer isn't on the pathetic way Kristoff was sacked for three months, or the way Bryton has been pushed in a corner since the day LML dropped his deaf story. Her concern in this interview about the way minorities are treated at her own and in daytime are superficial at best. "Oh yeah, like there should be more black storylines." "Oh, that was like, so gross(re: Devon/Tyra)." There is a difference between not wanting to get somewhere professionally based on your race(i.e. Michele ValJean saying she wanted to be known as a writer instead of a "black woman writer") and completely removing yourself from issues of diversity, which is completely what Christel has done since the moment her Scottie Pippen nose stepped foot at Television City.

THESE ARE THE ISSUES! There are probably many others that MoTheGreat, DeeDeee, CarlD2 and others, both black and white have illustrated in these threads. I'm not saying that I completely agree with these points or any others. But I at least make a conscientious effort to read posts and THEN air my thoughts. But once more, you show your complete and utter ineptitude by looking for flash words and then going on the attack. How Elisabeth Hasselbeck of you.

I just did. This is what you wanted right? More attention. Feeding the beast. Maybe you'll actually get something out of this.

You could have fooled me. You're always defending homegirl when these threads come up.

Yes, like everyone else has. I admit, MoTheGreat gets a little crazy sometimes, but if you took the time to actually READ what Mo(and everyone else) says instead of jumping on the attack, you may actually find some sort of validity or truths in what they are saying. And even if you DON'T, then you'll at least be ready to say something in reply other than "this 'race' crap."

[NorrthCafe]

I would pay MONEY to see it happen! I think her version of Lily sucks the oxygen from every scene she's in. "Cane" isn't tired, he's oxygen depleted. It's hard to draw breath when Lily is constantly whining, crying, needing attention... ARGH! So am I... I have to FF'd every scene she's in!

[Heyou]

Aside from her acting, these two are the bigger issues that I have with CK, well, that and she seems to be merely playing herself on screen.

[juniorz1]

BRAVO! WORD to everything you said, especially the PB part. I posted that interview on this forum because I was so appalled by his comments. He lost all credibility with me after that. One minor quibble- Debbi Morgan broke through and won the supporting actress Emmy in 1988. But 1 actress taking the award 21 years ago doesn't make the cut either.

back atcha

Seriously, how do I even begin to reply to such a ridiculous statement. Oh yeah, I know.

And I can't believe you're still posting! Seriously, why come into this thread and make such ridiculous ignorant statements?

ANSWER:

Can I give you head tonight while you recite this post to me out loud?

[alphanguy74]

The thing is, this "not black enough" crap has been going on for DECADES. And many times, targeting people (Mostly women) who aren't even of mixed race..... people who are 100% black. 40 years ago, THIS was considered a "sell out" and "Not black enough" by many in the black community:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAVPpAVqkKk&feature=related

Now how ridiculous is that? Black women rack up 12 number one hits and people STILL can't give them their due. I think it's tacky as hell for people to turn on their own.... and it's still happeneing today, all because that girl is not "pure" enough. Well Obama ain't pure either, but because his skin is two shades darker than Christel's people willing to overlook that. After all, it's APPEARANCE that counts. And Because Rowell does neck rolls, then she gets a pass, too. But if you take it TOO far, like Tyler Perry's Madea, then your'e called a "Minstrel show". I'm not fan of Christel, but I don't like her cause she can't act her way out of a paper bag, not because of her lack of black purity. That's the kind of sh!t the Aryan nation comes up with, except in the opposite direction.

[juniorz1]

Woah, woah, woah, back up.......Where on Earth did that come from? I have not seen posts in this thread that attack Christel purely based on her looks or her mixed heritage. Yes, I've seen it in other threads before, but not this one. Your argument isn't really germane to anything that's gone on here. You have to understand.....with so few black characters on daytime right now, black viewers want to feel represented by the characters they are getting. And that certainly is not happening with Christel. Do you honestly believe that the majority of black females out there can identify with CK's Lily? It's not about "black purity" or anything of that sort- it's simply about viewers hungry for a character they can identify with.

Victoria Rowell's Drucilla, on the other hand, was relatable. To say that Rowell gets a pass (for being mixed) simply because she rolls her neck is way off base and disregards all the contributions she's made to Y&R, daytime, and black women in general. Not to mention it degrades her fans and her supporters. Not cool. Frankly, I'm shocked any long-time Y&R viewer could even make such a statement. Rowell gets a pass because she fights the good fight, represents, and takes her responsibility as a black actress in daytime (or any medium) very seriously. Period.

[SFK]

Well, in the case of The Supremes, the "not black enough" backlash was warranted because that's exactly what the folks at Motown were going for. They wanted glamorous black stars (black fans, check!), yet they wanted to suck out the glaring traces of these ladies' Gospel roots to make them palpable to a larger (i.e., white) audience while maintaining just enough of that "black soul" to make them commercially viable. It's like the Diahann Carroll black Barbie doll syndrome. Black by skin tone, but for all intents and purposes, comfortably white enough for the caucasian viewer. And if that doesn't fit the descriptin of CK's Lily, I don't know what does. But black audiences are even keener than before, as I said in an earlier post, merely putting black faces on the screen is no longer enough, they are hungry for authenticity. No, there isn't just one "type" of black woman, but if only one type is going to be represented, most black fans aren't going to be satisfied with a CK Lily.

[NorrthCafe]

I'd just like to add that I don't think she could act her way out of an OPEN paper bag... just sayin'.

I think the problem is that Khalil's Lily is that she's so divorced from anything to do with anyone who is African-American that it's troubling to fans who can't related to her and are probably peeved that she's supposed to 'represent them' in some way. Lily doesn't have to roll her neck - I think that's an absurd observation that it's what African American viewers want from an African-American character. I give people credit for having a far broader definition of 'culture' than that. I don't have any 'neck rollers' in my family, for the record, and we still view ourselves as in touch with our culture.

As an example of the frustration some fans seem to feel, does anyone know of ONE white character on the YnR who has little to no contact with other white characters? Ever???? Wouldn't you find that odd? We don't even have to think about how odd it would be because it NEVER HAPPENS in daytime. There are certainly characters who could spend most of their time interacting almost exclusively with the Winters family. The writers have just never done it.

Why doesn't it seem odd that Lily has been segregated, by and large, from the rest of the African-American cast? The writers cast African-American women for Devon to date (even his own freakin' "aunt"). The women he dates tend to turn out to be bit players more than anything. They could do the same if they wanted to with a white male character. They could cast bit players for, let's say, PB's Jack - who would date African-American women exclusively. That doesn't happen. Never has. I doubt it ever will on the YnR.

I think what's probably not being articulated, but seemingly felt, by fans is the notion of Lily's 'Blue Veins'. In African American culture, those who could LITERALLY show their 'blue veins' (the underside of the arm) were deemed 'high society'... There were 'paper bag tests' (you had to be LIGHTER in complexion than a paper bag to be considered 'high society'). It was an internalized extension of cultural racism for the African-American community. The YnR's PTB seem to unwittingly play to that notion. I don't think it's the fault of the actress and I don't dislike her for it (again, it's her sucking "acting" that annoys me). I do, however, understand fans' frustration even if I think she takes an unfair hit for something the writers and EPs seem (unwittingly?) guilty of...The more coarse explanation is the recognition of the 'field negro' and the 'house negro'.

Lily seems to have been deemed something 'other' than by the writers. She's 'post racial' without having to have been considered 'racial' at all. She and her 'blue veins' don't have to interact with others who are African-American, she doesn't have to date anyone who is African-American, etc, etc, etc...

For the record, I don't think fans are at fault for their expectations that broader views of African-American culture be displayed onscreen. The writers set it as a standard when Dru was cast, along with Nathan, Neil, Mamie, Dru's parents, (the FBI agent who went undercover and whose name escapes me right now - he was played by Phillip Morris Jr, I believe). As the Winters fade away, and the snooze producing Lily remains the only highly visible vestige of what was once a diverse family, TPTB set themselves up for the backlash.

[alphanguy74]

I was referring to all the posts above that refer to Christel not being in "touch" with her black side.

[alphanguy74]

Well, I can think of a couple. Kevin/Adam, Ashley/Amber, Amber/Jack, Cane/Victor, Adam/Jill.

[bellcurve]

What you're talking about is a very complex issue that you are only looking at from a very superficial standpoint.

The same thing happens both ways...people are often accused of being "too black" and offending a mainstream white audience. It's why black characters on various TV shows are often too safe or very one dimensional.

Execs don't seem to understand that while black people don't prefer seeing safe and boring for the sake of a mainstream audience, they also don't want to see "The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeifer," "Homeboys In Outer Space," etc.

The same "racism" that you accuse people of inflicting upon poor wittle Christel, is probably the same type of "racism" that others have endured for not being "white enough" or simply not fitting into society's image of what black people need to be. I am not going to lie, I've been guilty of it from both ends and I have endured this from both ends.

But the same type of racism also exists within other ethnic groups and cultures as well.

And again, as I mentioned previously and as juniorz was so lovely to point out, this thread is not JUST about Christel and "how black she is." She could be Jerry Seinfeld for all I care and this still wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. This has everything to do with her talent and work ethic(you can tell bitch is only in this for the paycheck and has been since probably year one of her first run) and the way she has went about playing her character, while at the same time, making a pathetic attempt to play up to black viewers in interviews and organizations like NAACP when it is convenient for her. And even then, it's simply a throwaway line like, "OMG, thanks my Twiggers!" That is the stuff I find unacceptable. Is her lack of concern for issues that black people face in daytime. We can't help who we are, our mannerisms, our vocal inflection, etc, but what we can do when faced with questions about diversity, is give straight, intelligent, thought provoking answers instead of just saying, "Like OMG, we totally need more diversity. SO FETCH!" If Christel is part Pakistani, why isn't she talking about the lack of Middle Eastern/Arabic characters in daytime or primetime on Buzzworthy?

An intelligent answer that I could have believed her saying(that would have still riled up feathers) would have been: "While I do feel diversity is an important issue, seeing as how black people make up a large, if not overwhelming percentage of our viewing audience, I also feel like soaps shouldn't add diversity just for the sake of it. There has to be something there other than 'We need black people, quick!' Execs have to care first about minorities and their issues before we can solve that problem. How do we solve that? I'm not sure. But until we do that, then really, the same cycle will continue to repeat." But we all know Christel isn't known for her intelligence nor is she known for stepping outside the box.

Exactly. Bolded points and then some.

I think it'd be a different story if Christel, wasn't relating to mainstream black viewers because of how light her skin was and her valley girl accent, but at the same time, was at least a good actress who was capable of carrying the story. She would win far more viewers over that way if she at least tried something with the material. Her idea of "acting" is piss poor pathetic. "Oh my God, Colleen!" Then, her unwillingness to do her research for the cancer story and looking in the mirror like she just found the cereal box surprise when she saw her bald head. I don't relate to characters based on how light or how dark they are. Hell, I see more of myself in Lucy Coe than I do Drucilla. ( ) But in order for anyone to be able to get anything out of your performance, good or bad, you have to at least TRY with the material. But I think there would be a lot less of a backlash if she at least gave a damn about the material instead of strolling about the sets playing house like she's five.

Look at Peter Parros...he, by all accounts, has lighter skin but people still love and respect him as an actor because he tries with the material. He didn't roll his neck or say "My MAWMZ" but people still like him.

[alphanguy74]

And that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. It's a myth. Diana, Mary and Florence were not of mixed race, they were 100% black women.... and their clothes, hair and appearance wasn't foisted upon them, they did it themselves, they chose everything they wore themselves. The music was written, produced, performed by black people... but since it wasn't Aretha Franklin singing runs with her big fat ass on stage, then it wasn't "authentic". What gospel roots? Mary Wilson said she always laughed at that statement when it was made about them, cause none of them EVER sang in church. So are some of you saying that Christel would be acceptable if she "Acted" blacker? Even though she's mixed and has light skin? And exactly what constitutes acting "black enough" I'd be interested to know.

[bellcurve]

Did you read any of NorrthCafe's post? Or did you just zero in on one particular thing and just ignore the rest?

[alphanguy74]

Now THAT statement I can agree with. And that's why when I read things like Lily note being in "touch" with her black side, I think people are judgin her not on her lack of talent, but on her skin tone and mannerisms.