Y&R: Kahlil drops a bomb on buzzworthy radio

[bellcurve]

To be fair, with some it's a combination of both. For ME on the other hand, it's her acting that's severely lacking. It's not even lacking, her ability to convey any emotion other than "My dog ate my homework" and "Oooh! Ice Cream Cone!" is literally non-existent.

It's not Christel's fault she was cast. But it is her fault that she sucks as an actress. You can't change the way people view you, but you CAN put your best into every performance.

[alphanguy74]

LOL!!!!

And you know what, I can just HEAR her voice in my head saying thos exact things!

[juniorz1]

I think you misunderstood what Norrth Cafe was saying. They were speaking to white characters who ONLY interact with blacks/asians/hispanics/etc... and nobody from their own race at all. And obviously, there's not one white character on Y&R you can use to refute that statement.

Exactly! Hell, with the performances she's giving, NOBODY that's supposed to identify with Lily would. Black women. Cancer patients. People who've lost their best friends tragically. Women who have been conned by Aussie impostors. Bald women. Anyone who's lost their mother. NONE of these people can relate to the idiotic acting choices she's made in each of those stories.

I'm not going to speak to your comments about the Supremes simply because I don't have the evidence to substantiate anything I may say (though I suspect you don't either). I WILL say that I find it highly implausible that ANY musical act at ANY time, let alone an all-black female trio in the 60s (!), have as much autonomy over their act as you're claiming they did.

As for Christel "acting black enough" or anything of that regard- please go through this thread and re-read all of the posts and maybe even check out a couple other threads relating to this subject. Read them and think critically about them because you're missing the point (that I thought I so clearly stated in my previous post) entirely.

[DeeeDee]

Exactly!

[DeeeDee]

Yes!!!

[miajere]

I don't think you understand the circumstances that went into creating authentic "black/gospel" music, or the circumstances that led to certain artist popularity, nor does this myth cover the challenges faced by AA women in breaking in the entertainment industry. CK would be acceptable if she accepted the responsibility and looked into the audience to whom her role was created for. "acting black" is another way of explaining people's personalities being shaped by the oppression, privilege, opportunities, history, etc... Her history as a Winters is deep and rich and full and included race related issues. For a more comfortable representation of that look to Olivia Winters.

Believe me, I wish CK didn't have to "act anything". I wish she could break out of soaps and join someone's cast playing what she's best at- a character with no discernible race. Unfortunately "light skin" is not white. But CK will never get a role designated for a white actress, in fact there are probably not enough roles available for this actress to get off the show, and for that I'm pissed.

[juniorz1]

Well said!

[alphanguy74]

I understand it perfectly well, as one of these black women in the entertainment industry is a good friend of mine, and we've talked about the issue plenty good. It's not a matter of pleasing white audiences, it's pleasing black audiences, too. The problem lies in that if you are a black performer, be it actress, or singer... if your'e a Christel Kahlil or a Diana Ross, you are a "Sell-out" or your'e not "black enough". The above statement from SFK says it all:

"Well, in the case of The Supremes, the "not black enough" backlash was warranted because that's exactly what the folks at Motown were going for"

My point is perfectly made by that. God forbid black women would be able to sing pop music. They must sing Soul, Gospel, Rap, Hip Hop, or Jazz... It goes to show that black women in the entertainment industry don't need white people to put them in a box, their own do a perfectly good job of that. Instead, a person should be PROUD that women of color have conquered such a genre that was previously all white. And even more recently, look at how Whitney Houston got booed at the Soul train awards. Once again, putting your own people in a box. Nobody gets any damn where unless you GOT EACH OTHER'S BACK. So judge based only on talent (Or in Christel's case, lack of), not on "blackness". What's wrong with being PROUD that Lily Winters is part of a new generation that has shed the shackles of having to "keep with your own kind" and she has primarily white friends and lovers. IT's where the world is going.... eventually we'll ALL be Christel's color, in about 3 or 400 years.

[miajere]

Nooooo! Not the "I have black friend..." speech!

I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You can't form these conclusions based on "a good black friend" or a sampling of a few people, or charts. Black criticism is not that simplistic, nor is it out to be that complicated. Black audience will always hold critique on POC on tv- another interlocking into our personalities- and we don't always agree. Diana Ross is an icon in the black community, as are the Supremes, and their contributions to black entertainment are well documented regardless of the people who have criticized them and your friend's theories about their success in the community.

"Got each other's backs"- really? seriously? SO we should just throw critique out and just support any black face that shows up on tv, otherwise tptb are going to assume we're different and can't decide on anything ourselves and stop writing for our characters. If only we could get each other's backs these shows would start writing and hiring more POC.

I get that you're trying to make sense of what's happening in the black entertainment community but the conclusions you're coming to are so false, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. "Shed the shackles" put on by whom? Well can I ask you this- can Billy shed some shackles? Adam? Can the entire new generation of Y&R be bi-racial. Hell, can all soaps do open casting call because I'm all for shedding some shackles. Why stop at Lily? (please don't answer that)

And black women can and do sing pop music- maybe you don't listen to them or buy their albums. You're in no position to tell black people how we should feel or what to think.

[NorrthCafe]

I'm confused... what is this list evidence of, exactly?

I can't speak for Mo, but when I read that post, I didn't take it to mean that Lily wasn't in touch because she didn't have a 'fat ass' to roll across the stage, or because of her skin color, or because she can't/choose not to roll her neck. MOST of us have family members of every hue. Lily has been almost completely segregated from the Winters family and has nothing to do with anyone who is African-American under any circumstances.

[alphanguy74]

But I thought that's what everyone wanted? You wanted the Winters family to not be in their own little "box" and interact with the rest of the cast. They do this with Lily, and then she's raked over the coles for it. So let me try to get this straight.... You want the dark skinned characters to interact with the white cast, and you want the light skinned character to interact with the black cast? Does that pretty much sum it up?

[alphanguy74]

Defiantely not. Just don't base the critique on whether the performer is "black enough" to pass muster. Base it only on performance.

Put on by yourselves.

[bellcurve]

THAT IS NOT WHAT ANYONE IS SAYING IN THIS THREAD!

Most black people, when they are watching a TV show with a character that features, them, want to be portrayed accurately and realistically. They want this portrayed via the writing and the acting.

Yes, there is a stigma attached to lighter skinned actors by a majority of the black audience. No one is refuting this at all! We're not saying someone should darken their skin to fit into what is considered a "black role."

But what executives and casting directors need to be more aware of is how badly this comes off to their black viewing audience. Regardless of how one feels about Davetta(whether she was good in the role of Lily or not), her being fired for Christel screams of racism to someone looking at this. It may not have been the way it went down, but this is the way it looks to them.

And ontop of that "racism" by the people in charge, Christel isn't a decent actress that can carry the material.

Black actors have been turned away from major roles for years by executives and casting agents that they are "too black." Did you read the "brown paper bag" theory NorrthCafe pointed out?

Have you been reading any of this? Of course not, because, AGAIN, you are cherrypicking what you WANT to read.

This is easy for you to say. It may be easy for some black people to do. But not for many. And for valid reasons.

Now that was a personal attack on a group of people that, yet again, you have displayed your superficial knowledge of.

The majority of black people don't think of themselves as being "shackled" or "still in slavery" by white people. You are, yet again, missing the issue and adding things to the discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with what the collective "we" in this thread are trying to say.

I don't think it's wrong for black people to ask, "Why isn't there someone like me on TV?" I'm sure you've seen your fair share of gays and even Midwesterners that have been unfairly portrayed or that are played by people who don't have authentic accents or clothing or looks.

[NorrthCafe]

GOOD MERCY! I don't even drink and even *I* started to wonder if I'd had a few too many! Thank you for making realize that it wasn't just me!

Alphanguy, with all due respect, the stereotypical portrayals of African-Americans you've presented are NOT what anyone has asked for. Christel Khalil's complexion is darker than mine. I would never (not EVER) say that Lily isn't 'black enough' because of the character's (actor's) complexion. You read a comment stating that Lily wasn't in touch with her 'black side' and assumed it meant fans don't like her because they (we) think she doesn't look black enough.

As for my comments, I didn't say that I wanted people associating BECAUSE of their skin color. I also don't want them segregated because of it and that the sort of segregation we see with minority characters doesn't happen with non-minority characters.

If not wanting the Winters in a 'box' means that I want the cast more fully integrated? CHECK. That's not a bad thing in my book.

[alphanguy74]

You aren't understanding what I was trying to say. I said nothing about black people feeling they were still shackled by white people. I was saying that the stigma against light skinned people that you, yourself admitted exists.... shouldn't be THERE. That's what I meant by "Shackling yourselves", stigma from one segment of black society against another is "shackling each other". And for racists who want to keep black people in their place, there's a little thing called "divide and conquer". Think about it. When black folks are fighting amongst themselves, it's easier to keep them in check according to some people in this world. One should NOT play into their hands. And Northcafe... I understand you don't share that "not black enough" opinion... but there have been MANY on this board that do, and they know who they are.