40 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Wait, there's more:

Cassie slept with brothers, Richard and Edmund. 

Olivia slept with father/son, Alan and Phillip. (She probably only missed out on Alan Michael because he wasn't around much at the time).

I would say the Alan/Olivia/Phillip situation was a triangle because she was with Phillip while she was married to Alan.

The one time they did a true triangle (Amanda/Mark/Jennifer) it sucked, so maybe that's why they stayed away from that kind of story.

That was a big hole in the show. Even though Bob and Kim were the stable couple, they still had storylines. They weren't always just in the background. Bill and Bert were constantly at odds with each other. It is possible to have that kind of married couple on a soap, but GL never found the right pairing once they ended Bert and Bill's marriage.

Ugh..I tend to block out things Olivia related because I just dislike her so. Was he still involved with her when he flipped and GA left?

There's also the icky Harley/Cyrus/Marina thing---which makes me throw up in my mouth a lot.

I haven't been around much lately, so maybe this has been discussed...but, it's a shame there weren't numerous scenes between Vanessa and Reva comparing notes on Billy.

It would have been lots of fun to see the two women get into a fight, with Vanessa coyly telling Reva that Billy's repertoire was actually quite limited when Vanessa and Billy first got together, and that she taught him plenty of things that he was clueless about <grin>.

Having Vanessa insult Reva in such a manner would have been fantastic.

Well...Vanessa's a lot too lady-like for that...but I always did hate how the show rewrote (or completely forgot) Vanessa had been vamping around Springfield for years before "sexpot" Reva showed up.

But Vanessa aiming some well timed truths about Reva's selfish ass behavior would've been greatly appreciated. She gets in a couple of licks after she found out about Dylan, but otherwise, Vanessa kept her mouth pretty shut.

Edited September 26Sep 26 by P.J.

Happily, I disagree with you on that one, PJ.  I can easily envision Van saying something like that to Reva, naturally with considerable tact.  Which would make it even funnier.

Better still would be if Kincaid could say something like that with a faint air of superiority.  Maybe have HB Lewis overhear it and have him start silently laughing...

Vanessa says outlandish things at times, like when she told Maureen that she thought it perfectly okay that an ex-wife acts upon the idea that her own ex is better off with her (Vanessa) than with his current spouse (in this case, Nadine).  Maureen was a tad astonished by Vanessa's comment and told Vanessa that an ex doesn't get to do such things.  To which Vanessa said, "Why not?"

Incidentally, I could see the honey/whiskey-voiced Alexandra say the same thing to Reva.  Maybe Alex and Billy should have had a fling.  Why not?  LOL

 

 

I've pointed this out before but I think Pamela Long diminished Vanessa in favor of her creations Reva and Alexandra. It's quite telling that Maeve Kinkead made no reference to Pamela Long in her Emmy speech.

10 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Incidentally, I could see the honey/whiskey-voiced Alexandra say the same thing to Reva.  Maybe Alex and Billy should have had a fling.  Why not?  LOL

Beverlee and Jordan had some good chemistry around the time of the affair reveal, it could have worked. I'd be interested in a story where instead of revealing the affair with Mindy/Roger to Billy, Alex decides to stay quiet and seduce him, knowing that would really hurt Mindy (and piss Roger off), then maybe she develops feelings for him along the way. There'd also be good material for Vanessa and how that would strain her relationship with Alex - I could see her being the one to tell Billy the full truth, as she feels she has no choice. 

I know Nadine was involved with Billy at this point in the story but fond as I am of Nadine I know she could have easily been moved out of the plot.

8 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I've pointed this out before but I think Pamela Long diminished Vanessa in favor of her creations Reva and Alexandra. It's quite telling that Maeve Kinkead made no reference to Pamela Long in her Emmy speech.

It's sort of heaven and hell because without Long I'm not sure how long (no pun intended) Vanessa would have stayed on the canvas. Yet I can see where she didn't quite do the best by the character - she was treated as a B-character.

I agree that Long ends up pushing Van aside for Reva, Alex and even India, her creations. But I also think she fleshed Vanessa out when she took over. (I think she takes over in March of '83? or so?) I read an interview from early on, and she said one of the first things she needed to do was give the viewers a reason to care about Van. And she's right...if not care about exactly, then a reason to root for the woman, who spent two years creating havoc and jumping from man to man without much rhyme or reason. 

And Long definitely did better by Vanessa in '89, weaving her back into the canvas effortlessly.

@Speed Racer  I'm not sure there's a way to do that without coming off as pathetic (as fun as India's "biological twitchings" line to Reva is, India constantly ends up with egg on her face.)  I think I know what you're talking about with Van--I believe that's the summer of '91, when Vanessa is hell-bent on throwing herself at Billy and ends up sleeping with him at Cross Creek. She's not exactly wrong...she knows Billy only married Nadine because he was drunk and every time she turns around, Billy is making a pass at her. (well, if not a pass, saying meaningful things about their relationship and testing the water to see if she'd get back together with him.)

In spite of her reputation (after '84, that is) Van wasn't a saint and could be arrogant as all get out. But she knew Billy. She knew she could get him if she wanted. In '92, after she dumps Fletch, she makes up her mind to go after Billy again, and only pauses because Nadine "accidently" lets her know she's "pregnant". Which doesn't stop her from flirting with him, which I find fun. 

8 minutes ago, P.J. said:

after she dumps Fletch, she makes up her mind to go after Billy again,

Wait a second.

Vanessa dated Fletch?

Is there ANY female character that they didn't put him with?

(Yes, Reva, but they did tease it for a while when they became friends).

6 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Wait a second.

Vanessa dated Fletch?

Is there ANY female character that they didn't put him with?

(Yes, Reva, but they did tease it for a while when they became friends).

It was the worst stuff I couldn't FF through in rewatching 89-93. After Billy nearly strangles Roger, Billy declares Mindy's no longer his daughter and feels betrayed that Van knew about the pregnancy and affair. She's disgusted with him for disowning Mindy, and starts spiraling, sleeping with a couple of clients. Fletch is disgusted with Alex for blowing it all up publicly. Van is nearly raped by Jack Kiley, who's heard she sleeps around, but Fletch saves her. He supports her pressing charges and starts crushing on her. They have a brief affair. She refuses to tell Bill that they're dating, which is really all about keeping her options open with Billy. Bill finds out anyway and runs away. Billy and Van find him at Cross Creek and reconnect. But Van comes home and nearly marries Fletch. She's late because she stops by Billy to tell hom and they fight. She gets into a car accident and misses Fletch's deadline. She finally has to admit that she's still in love with Billy. This is what spurs Nadine to fake the pregnancy and pass off Peter as her child. 

21 hours ago, prefab1 said:

This will be a bit spoilery for alwaysAMC, as it comes in mid-1998, but we do get at least one great scene where Dinah finally crosses a line and Vanessa strikes back:

 

This is a good scene...as dumb as Dinah obsessing over DuhHart and Cassie..characters that had NO chemistry...(you could always almost scene LW rolling her eyes at that greaseball) at least this was old fashioned soap, no clones, no time travel and no Reva. But it really makes you see how shallow the writing was and how much the talent was wasted...Moniz is looking GREAT here and they have reduced Dinah to an Annielike psycho....Dinah is always best when she shows that she actually does care about someone other then herself,, and not in a love triangle...GT showed affection to Bill and her dad and when they showed them her younger siblings...in a still broken way. Cynical conniving Dinah going after something she thinks she deserves is interesting...an unlikeable nut case is not. If only they had Matt and her screw so Van could toss them both out on their asses.

And yes, having an amnesiac Van confronted with her spoiled whiney daughter would have been worth it...."Well, I always questioned if it was the right move to give you up, but I can see it is...tell me dear, did they keep you in the Freak Show section...as the Incredible Annoying Whining Girl?"

PattiD was fired after trying as hard as she could to create a fan base for Buzz and Selena...(yes,there was a Suzz fanzine..made up of about 5 women who were really so pathetic it was sad...they would send Christmas Presents to Patti's kids ..one of her kids made a hilariously snide post something like "My Mom told me to thank the person who sent me that gift..so ...thanks..." ) By that time Zimmer had taken totally over as the queen of the show and Patti, desperately trying to appeal to the power structure jumped on a message board, where people were complaining about Jevas total domination of the show and Reva's stupid storyline and Patti told them to "BITE me!" so it was bye-bye Patti!)

9 hours ago, DeeVee said:

(Yes, Reva, but they did tease it for a while when they became friends).

And believe it or not...she kinda sorta wants to get with him, or at least have him fall for her like everyone else with a d*ck. She has a scene where she says something like "Oh, I thought you and I had something..." and Fletch is totally oblivious as he is love with Maeve. They were actually good together as buddies and I loved it when Reva had male friends who didn't want to bang (well, at least long term) and it makes sense that Reva would have guy friends more then women (Zimmer seems the kind of gal to like to go out with beers with guys instead of mimosas with the gals .) 

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

This is a good scene...as dumb as Dinah obsessing over DuhHart and Cassie..characters that had NO chemistry...(you could always almost scene LW rolling her eyes at that greaseball) at least this was old fashioned soap, no clones, no time travel and no Reva. But it really makes you see how shallow the writing was and how much the talent was wasted...Moniz is looking GREAT here and they have reduced Dinah to an Annielike psycho....Dinah is always best when she shows that she actually does care about someone other then herself,, and not in a love triangle...GT showed affection to Bill and her dad and when they showed them her younger siblings...in a still broken way. Cynical conniving Dinah going after something she thinks she deserves is interesting...an unlikeable nut case is not. If only they had Matt and her screw so Van could toss them both out on their asses.

And yes, having an amnesiac Van confronted with her spoiled whiney daughter would have been worth it...."Well, I always questioned if it was the right move to give you up, but I can see it is...tell me dear, did they keep you in the Freak Show section...as the Incredible Annoying Whining Girl?"

PattiD was fired after trying as hard as she could to create a fan base for Buzz and Selena...(yes,there was a Suzz fanzine..made up of about 5 women who were really so pathetic it was sad...they would send Christmas Presents to Patti's kids ..one of her kids made a hilariously snide post something like "My Mom told me to thank the person who sent me that gift..so ...thanks..." ) By that time Zimmer had taken totally over as the queen of the show and Patti, desperately trying to appeal to the power structure jumped on a message board, where people were complaining about Jevas total domination of the show and Reva's stupid storyline and Patti told them to "BITE me!" so it was bye-bye Patti!)

I never liked Dinah, but Wendy played her well. 

It was well done, but I still can't get over Vanessa helping Dinah escape the police.  No way can I get over that.

As for Fletcher and Vanessa...talk about a boring couple. 

Edited September 26Sep 26 by MLH

4 hours ago, P.J. said:

But Van comes home and nearly marries Fletch.

No way. I refuse to believe this. 😂

I don't get why they thought so many women would be into this guy. 

Some, sure. Because everyone has their own personal taste. But how he ended up the GL Lothario, I'll never understand.

1 hour ago, MLH said:

I never liked Dinah, but Wendy played her well.

There was no consistency to that character. For me, that was the biggest problem. They changed her to suit whatever plot. And for those of us who remember the introduction of the character back in the 80s, it's even more baffling. Even though the two iterations of the character back then were different (she started off as a spunky girl who had had a rough childhood and then evolved into a sweet ingenue) she always was nice, even though she had problems with Vanessa giving her away.

I had the same problem with 1990s Amanda. She was not Amanda.

Just create new characters if you want a young adult mean girl duo in SF.

7 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

No way. I refuse to believe this. 😂

I don't get why they thought so many women would be into this guy. 

Some, sure. Because everyone has their own personal taste. But how he ended up the GL Lothario, I'll never understand.

There was no consistency to that character. For me, that was the biggest problem. They changed her to suit whatever plot. And for those of us who remember the introduction of the character back in the 80s, it's even more baffling. Even though the two iterations of the character back then were different (she started off as a spunky girl who had had a rough childhood and then evolved into a sweet ingenue) she always was nice, even though she had problems with Vanessa giving her away.

I had the same problem with 1990s Amanda. She was not Amanda.

Just create new characters if you want a young adult mean girl duo in SF.

Dinah should have ALWAYS been angry and "bad" I would have originally written her as this carny girl who finds herself in a load of cash and then tries to emulate young Van..lording it over "River Rat" Harley,etc...to Van's chagrin.

I can see characters changing, especially ill defined ones like Dinah...they just need to give a reason. As for Amanda...I know people are used to Cullens' drab version, but she was always chasing after men and having a mean girl background..she slept with her Mom's gross hubby so yea, she was no saint. Malibu Madame...no...but a mean girl who was not going to let ANYONE take her on, who had found her sensuality while away, yea, I can believe it.