9 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Why in the world would Van not recognize Holly?

*shrug* I don't know. But when Van comes back to town, Henry teases her into going to Ross'  and he and Holly are there. He and Holly fight, and she slaps him, running past Van and Henry at the door. Van thinks its Nadine until Ross describes her as both Roger and Ed's ex-wife. 

9 hours ago, DeeVee said:

I don't recall specific scenes between them, but Vanessa hired Joe Bradley to break into Alan's room at the club while he was separated from Hope. He found a letter Rita wrote to Alan where she declared her love for him. Vanessa sent the letter to Ed anonymously. This is just as Rita left town after the affair with Alan.

Before that, Vanessa was at the Spaulding mansion and the hospital a lot. They were both Sarah's patients. They had to have crossed paths.

Not to mention Vanessa hating her sister Eve. Van, Henry and Ross even head to Bermuda (or Jamaica, I can't remember where Alan and Rita went to tryst) as Van and Henry are hoping to catch Alan and blackmail hom into buying Jocelyn Electronics. Rita gets out of the villa in time, but Ross ends up breaking up with Van. 

So yeah, I'd think Van and Rita talked. Van really used to love taunting people. 

I’m up to May 19, 1997.

April 23 - Michael Zaslow’s last episode. The whole situation is so sad. At least his last scene was with Holly, and as he walked out the door, you could almost tell Holly was emotional in her face as she gave a half smile/sad eyes gaze as he left. Then May 1, Roger is back as the new actor Dennis Parlato in a scene with Blake. He reminds me of an 80/90s AMC Adam Chandler (David Canary) on appearance/stature haha.

May 19 - Petronia Paley (Vivian) is no longer in the end credits as a contract player.

With the help of Hawk and Rusty, Reva has realized Annie can’t be her sister. Now she’s adamant about getting revenge on Annie and says “I will kill Annie Dutton with my bare hands!”. LOL I do love this rivarly a lot, now that it’s getting gritty and messy. Meanwhile, Annie packed her bags and left Josh’s house in a fit of rage, but she threatened to start drinking and he then allowed her to stay while he takes the kids to Matt’s house. Alan takes Annie to the doctor because she’s having pains after all the stress and sadly the doctor tells her the baby has no heartbeat, and she once again breaks down. Poor Annie - she’s really being put through the ringer!  Watros yet again is putting on a masterclass in acting. Reva and Annie then confront each other at the Carousel House and Annie finally admits she’s not her sister, while Reva taunts her about the baby coming from a sperm donor, which Annie keeps denying. Reva starts smashing lamps, photos and desks! Josh and Reva then find each other, Reva tells him all about Annie’s lies, they kiss and do the whole “Always” and “Bud” thing.

The big Spaulding party starts and Reva/Josh go together, thinking Annie won’t be there. They see her and decide to leave. As Josh is out getting the car, Annie lures Reva upstairs. Ross was named the new DA, and while giving his speech, Annie gaslights Reva and puts Reva’s hand on her chest and yells “Reva, NO!” and falls backwards down the staircase, just as Josh enters the party again!  What great soap opera LOL!  So this is the way Annie can have a miscarraige, even though she knows her baby is dead already, and now she’s blaming it on Reva in front of everyone. Love it! Oh Reva is so mad. She then accuses Annie of being artifically inseminated in front of everyone at the hospital. Annie of course flips out and Josh doesn’t know what to do.

While I’m loving this Annie/Reva feud, it does start to take a dark turn that isn’t as fun. Annie gets to the morgue and does away with the remains of her fetus, while Reva is demanding a paternity test. I don’t love going the ‘destroy the fetus’ route.  But then wow, just as Josh tells Reva he believes her and they kiss, Frank comes to arrest Reva for attempted murder (Annie) and the murder of the unborn fetus!  Ross, as the new DA, has to prosecute Reva while Griffin defends Reva as her lawyer.

As far as Ross, Amanda seemingly was able to get him the DA position, which makes Blake angry. But they’re able to smooth that over and Ross wants Blake to hold the bible whlie he’s sworn in days later (cute).  He then goes back home to see the kids one night, they have some wine, talk about life and how they never stopped loving each other and kiss!  Yay. Roger ends up interrupting them, so Ross leaves for the night, but it’s like they’re back to dating again and getting butterflies when they see each other.

Bridget took Peter to Minnesota for a week without telling Hart, which pisses him off. That happened in a day this entire month, they’re really drawing this out.

Lots of hijinks with Jenna/Buzz/Jeffrey this month, but it really doesn’t amount to much. At all. Buzz/Jenna still like each other, they hide from Jeffrey, the end.

Hmm, Michelle randomly finds out that her mother (Maureen) was a heart donor and her heart was given to someone else. Then, she’s accepted into the same college that her mother went to, which makes her sad. They’ve randomly spent a lot of time on Michelle reflecting on Maureen lately. Philip and Rick discourage Michelle from finding the person with her heart, so she enlists Bill to help.

Vanessa (Tess) and Matt (Robert) keep talking to each other in an empty Poetry chatroom. While cheesy, it’s very cute watching them talk to each other in a split screen with the same outdoor backdrop LOL. It’s very cute though. They’re being coy with where they live and what they do for a living, but they’ve realized they’re several hours a part. Bill, while trying to help Michelle, found Matt’s chat room and started talking to Vanessa before Matt stopped him. Bill/Michelle come up with information that a court reporter has Maureen’s heart, so that leads them to Reva’s pre-trial.

Reva’s pre-trial starts, with half the town in attendance... will Blake tell the truth about Annie, will Alan support Annie or Reva, will Ross find success in his first case as DA?  Can’t wait to see!

Nadine wasn't a fav character.  I just liked her more than Vanessa.  Vanessa seemed stuck up. 

My fav characters were Roger and Little Marah.  I was so sad that she only lasted 2 years or so.  

By 1997, Roger wasn't being written as Roger anymore, so I don't buy that they couldn't write Michael's speech issue and illness into the storyline. 

Once the other guy took over, they really made him just a typical Grandpa and pining over Holly.  That's it.

Edited August 1Aug 1 by MLH

5 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Oh, my a Nadine fan exists!!! I thought Nadine was knock off Nola..but so was Harley at first. Though I did love her as a greedy social climber with a B-Hollywood past. One of my fave scenes was Frank talking about how he didn't have a traditional mom or upbringing, as she would "Let us stay up late watching Johnny Carson eating out of a bucket of chicken!" That line itself would only be written by a GL writer at that time (I cant imagine anyone in Marland's ATWT saying that) and exemplified Nadine and the Cooper family which made them unique, before they tried to turn them into the Super Dooper Coopers the selfrighteous center of SF.

I hated that they put poor Deenie chasing after Buzz and living at the diner all the time...now that I think about it, the same thing happend to Nola, stuck in the Boardinhouse and then chasing Buzz. Both of them deserved better.

Ferrel wanted to go, which is one of the dumbest things she could do, what other acting job could she get? Long talked her into staying longer after her contract ran out so she could write her out..but THIS is how you do it..being dragged out to go to a nuthouse to never be heard from again...(they did mention Roxie as a possible stalker during that time..)

Thanks. I don't really know Ferrell's history but I see she didn't do anything for about 5 years and then just had a few roles. I wonder if she wanted a long break after being constantly worked on GL.

I was also a Nadine fan. I put a lot of that on Jean Carol, although the whole triangle-that-wasn't with Billy and Vanessa was unique to me in that I felt for both ladies. GL was a nuanced enough show where at its best I often felt for both parties, maybe because GL had complex writing that made you understand people even if you didn't always like them.

I agree all the nuance of the Coopers left when Buzz arrived, although I put that on JFP more than Buzz or Deas.

20 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Did she have much interaction with Holly in 1980?

Didn't Holly leave in 1980?

4 minutes ago, MLH said:

Didn't Holly leave in 1980?

Yes. I think in the fall. Vaness arrived several months earlier.

14 hours ago, DRW50 said:

You're right that she probably should have known of Holly, given the rape trial and the publicity, then Roger kidnapping Holly.

I think she must have interacted with Rita at some point as she was sniffing around Ed for a while.

One thing I notice is Maeve is not treated well enough by hair and wardrobe in those 1987 episodes. I remember her looking more stylish by the time I started watching (1990 or so) until she got together with Matt.

1987 wardrobe is all over the place. It's not all bad, but I think they were trying to get her away from her look with Billy and then a tad sexier when she was reconnecting with Ross. (The dress she wears to after Dinah's graduation looks fabulous on her, as does her Fourth of July dress, even if that's a tad long for summer.) She wears slacks more, she's growing out her hair. I'm not sure anyone's look is really fabulous that year. Some of the stuff they put Bev in was hideous. And I'd argue they dressed Vanessa better than her daughter.

Vanessa's arguably one of the few fashionista characters GL ever had. But it was always a classic look. Maeve really rocked the pencil skirt in the '90's. I think I've seen some stuff where they tried to dress her younger with Matt---and that's just not Vanessa. She was never "trendy" and she wouldn't have strayed from her look. That stupid line from Van's memorial runs through my mind, where Matt makes the stupid remark about how sometimes he's have to remind her to change out of her casual clothes to go to the office (or whatever...) ANYONE who knew Van knew she wouldn't leave for the office without her heels and clip on earrings, looking fab.

I finished watching Hope's exit story on the German channel, and I have to say...

What a WASTED opportunity.

It was so well done. It would have been even better if it hadn't been accelerated and compressed, probably in order to get Elvera out by the end of her contract. Because of that, some really important story beats were missing. 

Can I believe Alan would wake up one day next to Hope in their comfortable middle class existence and decide he'd had enough of playing suburban husband and dad?

Yes. Definitely, the framework was already being laid down by PFS and other writers before Long took over. Even the scabs during the brief writers strike in 1983. (There was a really good scene between Hope and Phillip where she comforts him because Alan is too distracted to pay attention to him. She says something like, "He'll come back around to you. Just like he'll always come back around to me eventually." Yikes, that's a sad thing to admit about your marriage).

It was a perfectly valid story choice to have Alan revert to being the crumb he was while he was married to Elizabeth. I totally believe he would have wearied of trying to fit into the mold he needed to in order to be with Hope. Again, it was just the rushing and lack of subtlety in the change that bothered me.

Plus, just from a storytelling perspective, Alan is much more useful as an egomaniacal narcissist, because that's the type of character who drives story.

Once they get past setting the story up, I was very impressed by the writing. The way Alan manipulated and gaslighted Hope was so awful, I wanted her to shoot him. He was SO cruel, tearing down her confidence, one minute bemoaning the state of their marriage, then shutting her down every time she brought up reconciliation. She starts having a flirtation with Warren and Alan shuts it down, mainly because it's rebuilding her confidence. (Yeah, Warren was a scumbag, but some potentially juicy stuff got put to the side, like Warren juggling two neurotic women, Hope and Lesley Ann, while still bootlicking Alan).

He also manipulated Trish--dangling a promotion while never really intending to give her one, seducing her by crying on her shoulder about Phillip finding out the truth about his paternity.

I feel like they could have skipped the whole acoholism thing because the resolution of it was ridiculously simplistic. Her family intervened, she went to one AA meeting, and she was sober and stronger. It was enough that he was ripping apart her self-esteem.

She has a last scene with Alan where she satifyingly tells him off, walks out of his office...and as far as I can tell is never seen again. They must have mentioned at some point that she and Alan Michael left SF, but I couldn't find the scene.

There could have been so much more. The story could have gone beyond this, and Hope could have been put into new storylines as an evolved and stronger character. 

I think the other person who got badly treated here besides Elvera was Rebecca Hollen. I'm pretty sure this is the only major storyline she got her entire time on GL, she did a great job, and after it was done she faded back into the woodwork. She mentioned on the Locher Room that she and Jerry verDorn wanted their characters to be in a romance, but other than teasing it for a while  nothing really happened.

Then after this really good, really strong character-driven story...they put Alan in that dumb, plot-driven Dreaming Death story. 🙄

 

 

15 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

I finished watching Hope's exit story on the German channel, and I have to say...

What a WASTED opportunity.

It was so well done. It would have been even better if it hadn't been accelerated and compressed, probably in order to get Elvera out by the end of her contract. Because of that, some really important story beats were missing. 

Can I believe Alan would wake up one day next to Hope in their comfortable middle class existence and decide he'd had enough of playing suburban husband and dad?

Yes. Definitely, the framework was already being laid down by PFS and other writers before Long took over. Even the scabs during the brief writers strike in 1983. (There was a really good scene between Hope and Phillip where she comforts him because Alan is too distracted to pay attention to him. She says something like, "He'll come back around to you. Just like he'll always come back around to me eventually." Yikes, that's a sad thing to admit about your marriage).

It was a perfectly valid story choice to have Alan revert to being the crumb he was while he was married to Elizabeth. I totally believe he would have wearied of trying to fit into the mold he needed to in order to be with Hope. Again, it was just the rushing and lack of subtlety in the change that bothered me.

Plus, just from a storytelling perspective, Alan is much more useful as an egomaniacal narcissist, because that's the type of character who drives story.

Once they get past setting the story up, I was very impressed by the writing. The way Alan manipulated and gaslighted Hope was so awful, I wanted her to shoot him. He was SO cruel, tearing down her confidence, one minute bemoaning the state of their marriage, then shutting her down every time she brought up reconciliation. She starts having a flirtation with Warren and Alan shuts it down, mainly because it's rebuilding her confidence. (Yeah, Warren was a scumbag, but some potentially juicy stuff got put to the side, like Warren juggling two neurotic women, Hope and Lesley Ann, while still bootlicking Alan).

He also manipulated Trish--dangling a promotion while never really intending to give her one, seducing her by crying on her shoulder about Phillip finding out the truth about his paternity.

I feel like they could have skipped the whole acoholism thing because the resolution of it was ridiculously simplistic. Her family intervened, she went to one AA meeting, and she was sober and stronger. It was enough that he was ripping apart her self-esteem.

She has a last scene with Alan where she satifyingly tells him off, walks out of his office...and as far as I can tell is never seen again. They must have mentioned at some point that she and Alan Michael left SF, but I couldn't find the scene.

There could have been so much more. The story could have gone beyond this, and Hope could have been put into new storylines as an evolved and stronger character. 

I think the other person who got badly treated here besides Elvera was Rebecca Hollen. I'm pretty sure this is the only major storyline she got her entire time on GL, she did a great job, and after it was done she faded back into the woodwork. She mentioned on the Locher Room that she and Jerry verDorn wanted their characters to be in a romance, but other than teasing it for a while  nothing really happened.

Then after this really good, really strong character-driven story...they put Alan in that dumb, plot-driven Dreaming Death story. 🙄

 

 

What year was this?  I like a good gaslighting story.  I want to compare it to the one done by Rusty/Mindy against Will (it was done pretty well) and the horrid Dinah/Hart vs Roger one. 

Too bad they never had Hope come back. It's a no brainer for a Alan/Hope/Roger story. Especially with no mother figure for Alan Michael. 

Edited August 2Aug 2 by MLH

12 minutes ago, MLH said:

What year was this?  I like a good gaslighting story.  I want to compare it to the one done by Rusty/Mindy against Will (it was done pretty well) and the horrid Dinah/Hart vs Roger one. 

Too bad they never had Hope come back. It's a no brainer for a Alan/Hope/Roger story. Especially with no mother figure for Alan Michael.

1983. Starts around the middle of the year, June or July, I think? Soon after they wrapped up the Mark Evans storyline.

The problem always with bringing Hope back was how quickly they aged Alan Michael. The funny thing is, Elvera was playing much younger than her actual age. She was around 35 when she left, so she could have credibly played the mother of a teen by 1987. The issue, I've heard, is they didn't want her back, even though she was interested in returning.

Elvera's acting was always questionable to me. Watching late 79 Dobson episodes where she flubbed lines regularly. They should have brought her back with a strong actress like Sharon Gabet

9 minutes ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

Elvera's acting was always questionable to me. Watching late 79 Dobson episodes where she flubbed lines regularly. They should have brought her back with a strong actress like Sharon Gabet

I thought she was fine, just rarely got a good chance to emote. She had a warmth that was very appropriate for the character, much like Mart Hulswit.

It's funny you mentioned Sharon. I've often thought she could have been a good recast for Rita.

If it wasn't for the quickly SORASed Alan Michael issue, I was thinking how great it would have been if Marcy Walker had been cast as Hope when they brought her on the show, instead of a palid new character no one cared about.

Rebecca Hollen was such a lovely presence onscreen. The affair with Alan was the only story she really got to sink her teeth into, she's in the Andy story, of course, but she's only in it for a couple of months before he's shipped off to jail.

Trish really was a stabilizing force in the Lewises, and it really felt she got booted to leave Billy dependent on his "new" brother Kyle.

Marcia McCabe wanted to continue working up to a point. She wasn’t happy when her Alicia Grande character ended on OLTL. I could’ve seen her as Hope. 
 

At least until Mary Stuart came on as Meta…