2 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Check your PMs.

Got them, thanks!!!

9 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I'm pretty sure Mindy was supposed to have seen Roger at the train station, but that made no sense as he was at the Towers all night. I'm not sure they ever directly addressed it on screen, though, other than saying that Roger had helped her get out of town. Mindy wasn't only in NY, she hid out with old friends around the country. The last friend she stayed with was in NYC, and that's where Dylan found her.

I'd have been fine with Nick and Eve---provided they left town.

I thought was Roger or Eric, but Roger made no sense.  That's why the Blackout story sort of fell short to me. 

I also didn't buy Blake and Ross being under the covers with a comforter during a heat wave.  The writers should have watched Body Heat. LOL

Just now, MLH said:

...  The writers should have watched Body Heat. LOL

Everyone should watch it, classic. 

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

And by the way, what do we know about Alexandra and Alan's mother?  We know some things about Brandon, but what about her?

Most of what we know about Alex and Alan's mother was revealed during the Barbados story:

Her name was Penelope Winthrop. Brandon was already involved with Sharina (Victoria's mother). But of course, he couldn't marry her, at least not if he remained in the U.S. So he married Penelope instead, who was a socialite and rich.

Sharina's brother was incensed that she and her child were living in SF as Brandon's secret family. In Barbados they were a respectable family and did not experience the kind of prejudice that they encountered in the U.S. But Brandon and Sharina persuaded him to live with his sister and niece so he could pretend he was Sharina's husband and Victoria's father. 

While pregnant with Alan, Penelope discovered Brandon's affair with Sharina. She threatened them with a gun but killed Sharina's brother instead. She immediately went into labor. While giving birth to Alan, she died.

The cottage Tony and Anabelle bought after they got married was the cottage Brandon bought for Sharina. It's where her brother was killed. Anabelle had some psychic abilities and knew someone had died in the cottage. That's how they started investigating what happened and ended up in Barbados, where it was revealed Brandon had faked his death and was living there with Sharina. 

After all was revealed, Brandon and Sharina died together while looking out on the ocean side by side.

There was some stuff about a letter that would have given Victoria part of Spaulding, but she decided she didn't want it. The crazed real estage agent Susan Piper was trying to get the letter back. She almost killed Anabelle and she ended up killing Hillary, and if you expect me to explain why she did it, sorry, I have no idea because this story never made any sense to me. 😂

Edited July 23Jul 23 by DeeVee

4 hours ago, MLH said:

In the 79/80, the storyline from Roger raping Holly with Roger making Alan help fake his death, because he had proof that Alan created two affidavits in Alan's bid for custody for Phillip.  That storyline is why Alan hates Roger and thus why he hated Blake/Christina from the start. 

That storyline was masterful, not just in the way it was groundbreaking as far as an important social issue, but the way it impacted most of the storylines going on at the time. Roger blackmailing Alan threatened his blossoming relationship with Hope and would have given Mike a way to avenge himself for the ruthless way Alan broke him apart from Elizabeth. It was a huge impact on Ed and Rita's marriage. First, because Ed was angry that Rita kept quiet about her own rape, which could have helped get Roger convicted. Then, when Holly shot Roger and everyone thought he was dead (Alan, of course, was forced into helping him fake his death), Ed guilted Rita into quiting her job so she could take care of Christina. This caused such a strong rift between them that Rita was unable to experience sexual gratification with Ed. She had an affair with a doctor, who also happened to be dating her sister Eve. Rita ended up pregnant, not knowing who the father is. Ross, who thought he would make his career defending Roger, started questioning his ambition.

Roger ended up causing the death of Rita's baby. Eventually Rita and Ed reconciled, but broke apart again...because they disagreed about Mike investigating Alan's part in Roger's crimes. Which led to...Alan and Rita having an affair.

Seriously, the amount of story that was generated by this one event was stunning (and I'm probably forgetting a few things--oh, yeah, Hillary was Roger's lover the whole time he was married to Holly and she evolved a great deal after she was forced to testify at the trial).

Even after Roger was killed, those freakin' affidavits were still in the possession of Diane Ballard, which touched off the Diane murder story, which THEN pulled in the Carrie multiple personalities storyline.

The whole thing was finally wrapped up when Alan's complicity was revealed and he briefly went to prison--I think more than a year after Roger "died."

Really impressive soap writing. I am never not in awe of it when I think about it.

 

Edited July 23Jul 23 by DeeVee

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

That storyline was masterful, not just in the way it was groundbreaking as far as an important social issue, but the way it impacted most of the storylines going on at the time. Roger blackmailing Alan threatened his blossoming relationship with Hope and would have given Mike a way to avenge himself for the ruthless way Alan broke him apart from Elizabeth. It was a huge impact on Ed and Rita's marriage. First, because Ed was angry that Rita kept quiet about her own rape, which could have helped get Roger convicted. Then, when Holly shot Roger and everyone thought he was dead (Alan, of course, was forced into helping him fake his death), Ed guilted Rita into quiting her job so she could take care of Christina. This caused such a strong rift between them that Rita was unable to experience sexual gratification with Ed. She had an affair with a doctor, who also happened to be dating her sister Eve. Rita ended up pregnant, not knowing who the father is. Ross, who thought he would make his career defending Roger, started questioning his ambition.

Roger ended up causing the death of Rita's baby. Eventually Rita and Ed reconciled, but broke apart again...because they disagreed about Mike investigating Alan's part in Roger's crimes. Which led to...Alan and Rita having an affair.

Seriously, the amount of story that was generated by this one event was stunning (and I'm probably forgetting a few things--oh, yeah, Hillary was Roger's lover the whole time he was married to Holly and she evolved a great deal after she was forced to testify at the trial).

Even after Roger was killed, those freakin' affidavits were still in the possession of Diane Ballard, which touched off the Diane murder story, which THEN pulled in the Carrie multiple personalities storyline.

The whole thing was finally wrapped up when Alan's complicity was revealed and he briefly went to prison--I think more than a year after Roger "died."

Really impressive soap writing. I am never not in awe of it when I think about it.

 

Wow, that storyline sure did cause a lot of ripple effects!

@DeeVee Thanks for the background story for Alexandra's and Alan's mother. 

@chrisml Only thing I would have changed was making a way for her and Fletcher to still be in each other's orbit.  I never get why they totally isolate characters. 

I keep forgetting to ask.  Did the show ever show the relationship between Blake and Alan or was it implied?

Edited July 24Jul 24 by MLH

Dee - Thanks for the info about Penelope.  Barbados must have been 1984 or 1985; I wasn't watching much back then as I was in college with full schedule, two internships and a job.  All simultaneously for 2 years straight.  I have nowhere near that amount of energy these days, lol!

 

56 minutes ago, MLH said:

I keep forgetting to ask.  Did the show ever show the relationship between Blake and Alan or was it implied?

When they reveal Blake and Alan are in cahoots, they show flashbacks of Blake coming on to him at a bar and later the two of them in bed.

(And, honestly, I could have lived without that because I remember little Christina when she lived next door to Alan. 😂)

Edited July 24Jul 24 by DeeVee

Looking back, Chelsea was hindered by being with Johnny.  She should have been a reporter at the newspaper instead of singing at that place Hamp and Fletcher ran. Or be an investigative reporter for WSPR and write for the paper as well. 

She was a good investigative reporter.  Chelsea was the one that interviewed Adam (Roger's Dad).  Didn't she and Johnny discover that Adam Malik was Roger Thorpe or am I wrong? I sure wish I could just watch it on YouTube in English. 

Just watching the episodes from 1989 and seeing episodes from the 2000s are like night and day with the quality!  You would think by the 2000s they would learn how to stretch a dollar!  

 

15 hours ago, DeeVee said:

After all was revealed, Brandon and Sharina died together while looking out on the ocean side by side.

There was some stuff about a letter that would have given Victoria part of Spaulding, but she decided she didn't want it. The crazed real estage agent Susan Piper was trying to get the letter back. She almost killed Anabelle and she ended up killing Hillary, and if you expect me to explain why she did it, sorry, I have no idea because this story never made any sense to me. 

Yea...and it never made sense that Ms. Piper lived in midwestern SF..she made Nola and Reva look low key. The only thing I can think is that she wanted to blackmail Brandon, but how she found out about it who knows.

I didn't have a problem with the story besides Hillary dying, but if you are going to change history you better make it count. Why bring Brandon back, in sweet old man mode, to just kill him off? Why not have Sharina, his only tether to good, die and he come back to SF to take what is his. He could have tried to get Phillip under his control, used India, gone toe to toe with H.B. setting it up to be a murder mystery six months later.

35 minutes ago, MLH said:

Looking back, Chelsea was hindered by being with Johnny.  She should have been a reporter at the newspaper instead of singing at that place Hamp and Fletcher ran. Or be an investigative reporter for WSPR and write for the paper as well. 

She was a good investigative reporter.  Chelsea was the one that interviewed Adam (Roger's Dad).  Didn't she and Johnny discover that Adam Malik was Roger Thorpe or am I wrong? I sure wish I could just watch it on YouTube in English. 

I liked Chelsea too, once you got over her twange, her name, her being the youngest...I think that the actress gave her a Reardon spunk that worked. And yes, I would have used her as a reporter, and dumped Johnny, the black hole of GL. With a recast Rusty I could see her getting invovled with...(sorry, the actor playing him was so damn cheesy.)

Chelsea saw a picture that maybe Blake had, of Christina, Rick and Phillip in the Bauer back yard, as the fence matched the current fence. As soon as she found out who was in the pic she put two and two together and confronted Blake. I dont know if they connected Roger to Malik though.

Quote

• That storyline was masterful, not just in the way it was groundbreaking as far as an important social issue, but the way it impacted most of the storylines going on at the time. Roger blackmailing Alan threatened his blossoming relationship with Hope and would have given Mike a way to avenge himself for the ruthless way Alan broke him apart from Elizabeth. It was a huge impact on Ed and Rita's marriage. First, because Ed was angry that Rita kept quiet about her own rape, which could have helped get Roger convicted. Then, when Holly shot Roger and everyone thought he was dead (Alan, of course, was forced into helping him fake his death), Ed guilted Rita into quiting her job so she could take care of Christina. This caused such a strong rift between them that Rita was unable to experience sexual gratification with Ed. She had an affair with a doctor, who also happened to be dating her sister Eve. Rita ended up pregnant, not knowing who the father is. Ross, who thought he would make his career defending Roger, started questioning his ambition.

Roger ended up causing the death of Rita's baby. Eventually Rita and Ed reconciled, but broke apart again...because they disagreed about Mike investigating Alan's part in Roger's crimes. Which led to...Alan and Rita having an affair.

Seriously, the amount of story that was generated by this one event was stunning (and I'm probably forgetting a few things--oh, yeah, Hillary was Roger's lover the whole time he was married to Holly and she evolved a great deal after she was forced to testify at the trial).

Even after Roger was killed, those freakin' affidavits were still in the possession of Diane Ballard, which touched off the Diane murder story, which THEN pulled in the Carrie multiple personalities storyline.

The whole thing was finally wrapped up when Alan's complicity was revealed and he briefly went to prison--I think more than a year after Roger "died."

Really impressive soap writing. I am never not in awe of it when I think about it.

Really impressive posting a summary of so many storyline aspects, characters, events, DeeVee really outdid herself, or any of us really, when she set about to tell a whole helluva lot of GL history.

I'd like to nominate this really remarkable post for the post of the month for GL! Is there a second?

 

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Really impressive posting a summary of so many storyline aspects, characters, events, DeeVee really outdid herself, or any of us really, when she set about to tell a whole helluva lot of GL history.

I'd like to nominate this really remarkable post for the post of the month for GL! Is there a second?

 

Me!  It was a great job of explaining all those storylines.

@Mitch64  Oh, I missed that about the picture!  That is so cool how the show used their history!

Edited July 24Jul 24 by MLH

21 hours ago, MLH said:

he whole Brent/Marian storyline wasn't a well thought out mystery to me.  We all knew Marian was Brent pretending to be a woman.  Where was the suspense?  Just made people look stupid for not being able to tell to me. 

These storylines should be creating and destroying relationships, shaping the characters for learning lifelong lessons. To me, it regressed character development. 

I get why they did Brent/Marian at this time...it was, as the mags said, the time to "Beat the drum loudly" and do something outrageous to get attention. But you are right...this should have led somewhere. My idea was to focus less on Lucy and more on the rest of the canvas, particularly Holly and Roger. I think I wrote this before but I would have Fletch investigating Alans' ties to Brent, while Holly supports Lucy as a rape victim. Alex, to get the heat off of Alan and Spaulding, plants evidence on Roger, and Fletch, knowing Holly still has those conflicted feelings, is ready to believe it is him, and goes after him to finally put him behind bars. There is a confrontation between the two of them in public when Roger lets looses to his violent side, and the classic soap, "I could KILL you!" and Holly remembers what it was like to be beat by Roger. Roger is arrested for battery and gets bail and Fletch still pursues it..Blake and Ross argue over Roger..(giving Amanda a chance to take advantage of the rising tension) with Ed and finally even Alex warning Fletch to drop it. Fletch gets evidence that leads him to Marion and instead of Nadine Fletch gets killed.  Brent plants evidence from Roger on the body and everyone is ready to blame Roger..except Blake (maybe Ross is the D.A. at this time) and suprisingly Ed, who sees medical evidence that makes him question Roger could do it.  Holly goes full out neurotic grieving widow (Holly and Fletch argued about her feelings for Roger right before he ran out and got killed) and is on the hunt for evidence against him, but finally sees it was not Roger, and they work together to smoke out the real killer.

So while Marion would still stalk Lucy the rest of the cast would be involved and at the end Holly might find her dark side working with Roger..not that she would hook up with him, but that would lead into Blake's babygate (not twins or Ricks.. I would make the baby Matts) and Holly uses Ed to access the records and change the paternity test to Ross, etc.

Edited July 24Jul 24 by Mitch64

16 hours ago, MLH said:

@chrisml Only thing I would have changed was making a way for her and Fletcher to still be in each other's orbit.  I never get why they totally isolate characters. 

About this, there are a couple of possibilities.

Frequently a new EP is given a mandate to cut the size of a cast, or to make the cast younger, or to dump a bunch of vets to save money since the vets usually have higher salaries. Now, fans hate it when a new EP comes in & starts firing people. One thing they've learned to do is to kind of cherry pick. So, instead of doing away with a whole family or community group, they'll take one each from ALL. But, that has the unintended effect of making people into pods or where once someone had friends, now, that has eroded & they're alone. 

Another thing, Lynn Liccardo in her book "as the world stopped turning" states that CBS mandated a narrative change for ATWT. What she describes is going from the old traditional threads that when finished make a pattern & instead new stories are told about pods. 

Both are examples of where isolation of characters was an unintended side effect of something else entirely. 

33 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

I get why they did Brent/Marian at this time...it was, as the mags said, the time to "Beat the drum loudly" and do something outrageous to get attention. But you are right...this should have led somewhere. My idea was to focus less on Lucy and more on the rest of the canvas, particularly Holly and Roger. I think I wrote this before but I would have Fletch investigating Alans' ties to Brent, while Holly supports Lucy as a rape victim. Alex, to get the heat off of Alan and Spaulding, plants evidence on Roger, and Fletch, knowing Holly still has those conflicted feelings, is ready to believe it is him, and goes after him to finally put him behind bars. There is a confrontation between the two of them in public when Roger lets looses to his violent side, and the classic soap, "I could KILL you!" and Holly remembers what it was like to be beat by Roger. Roger is arrested for battery and gets bail and Fletch still pursues it..Blake and Ross argue over Roger..(giving Amanda a chance to take advantage of the rising tension) with Ed and finally even Alex warning Fletch to drop it. Fletch gets evidence that leads him to Marion and instead of Nadine Fletch gets killed.  Brent plants evidence from Roger on the body and everyone is ready to blame Roger..except Blake (maybe Ross is the D.A. at this time) and suprisingly Ed, who sees medical evidence that makes him question Roger could do it.  Holly goes full out neurotic grieving widow (Holly and Fletch argued about her feelings for Roger right before he ran out and got killed) and is on the hunt for evidence against him, but finally sees it was not Roger, and they work together to smoke out the real killer.

So while Marion would still stalk Lucy the rest of the cast would be involved and at the end Holly might find her dark side working with Roger..not that she would hook up with him, but that would lead into Blake's babygate (not twins or Ricks.. I would make the baby Matts) and Holly uses Ed to access the records and change the paternity test to Ross, etc.

To me the whole Lucy rape storyline was why they had to break up Holly and Roger in the first place. 

Brent was not a good villain.  It would take two seconds to figure out that was a man dressing as a woman. If we the audience could tell right off the bat, the characters would too. 

I would have killed off Fletcher over Nadine though.  He was a horrible reporter.  I would have stuck him to the editorial page in the first place.  He had no place reporting anything as he was always way too emotionally triggered. 

@Contessa Donatella Exactly!  But, I really don't think they wanted to get rid of Alexandra nor Fletcher.  I really do think that Alexandra wasn't acting any worse than any other character on the show had done.  Did Bev say what specifically she wanted changed?

Edited July 24Jul 24 by MLH