1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

I've seen this before and I've said this before... but the timing seems odd to me. Granted, I say this without seeing 1993-1994 haha. But for me, 1995 was so exciting. I'm guessing they convinced Kim to come back to save the show, but I'm curious if her return and Brent/Marian boosted ratings at all. For me, this cancel concern should have come in 1996. That year was generally boring and I don't think Phillip's return was helpful considering it was a dud. I like Phillip, but his return storyline just wasn't that interesting.

I was surprised that GL was in cancel territory when Laibson came on board. I do know that it was under SERIOUS consideration in the Summer of 96 when the ratings dropped below AW. Rauch was brought in to save it but the real reason GL limped on is that the Bell soap never saw the light of day.

I do like that the writers asked why TPTB let JFP run havoc over GL. But also why McLaiby kept the focus on Buzz and the Coopers for so long leading into the terrible "Save 5th Street" storyline with Deas waving his arms and yelling day in and day out. Why not just get writers in to make GL..GL again instead of going for a costly new production which will be a shot in the dark. GL was a brand name..so fix it.

One wise things that JFP did was to refuse to bring back Reva on a permanent basis. But Kim got her fans in a frenzy and I can see why McLaiby would bring her back and have Brent/Marion...as one soap columnist said, "To bang the drum loudly."

@alwaysAMC I think in 1995, it was more about expanding B&B and GL was just the low man on the totem pole. Thankfully b&b didn't expand, although it seemed like a logical move at the time.

Even when GL was bad in 2001, you'd occasionally get a glimmer of hope like with Taggart/Culliton in 2002 or very early Kreizman in 2004. IMO, the show was cooked when they let JvD walk and LW left for GH around the end of 2005. That and terrible casting choices, which GL used to excel at. There was little rootability by the time they got to Jersey and it became the Jeffrey O'Neil show.

In regards to Reva and her four children, I think Jonathan was most like her in personality and how he reacted to conflict.

I liked that the show originally had Marah being more like Josh, which was a nice contrast with Reva, until that overly animated/OTT Laura Bell Bundy briefly took over. Her Marah was a very amped up Reva without any of Reva's positive traits. Mckeon's Marah was probably the most Josh like in terms of personality especially with her Marah being judgmental like her father. Other than Bundy, the other actresses at least have the same essence/aura.

Shayne changed based on whomever was playing the character.

Dylan was so low key and chill... so unlike Billy or Reva. Perhaps he had a bit of his uncle Rusty or his aunt Trish in him.

In regards to the Coopers:

Frank was used pretty well/written to the actor's strengths from 1987/88 to about 95/96 until he was made a cop and basically put onto the backburner. I actually think Buzz coming back in 1993 began the loss of focus/function of Frank's character since he was the protective older brother and resentful son of the flaky Nadine.

Early Lucy, they tried at first to make her fiesty like Harley and the actress couldn't play that so the writers focused more on being more naive/innocent. I know that her and A-M were heavily slanted as a couple from the time she came on until at least May/June 1994 (by the Bauer Barbeque 1994.. the two were broken up). I also think the writing team changing quite a bit also affected how Lucy was used and so they went more on chemistry vs actual story during the 2nd half of 1994 hence why her pairing with Matt was stopped because of his chemistry with Vanessa.

I think Frank was actually well-used in the final year or two when he was the spoilers for Otalia. His first real romance in ages, not counting that dayplayer h@@ker, darcy from the garden of eden arc. Conjob kept putting dayplayers/ minor characters in the forefront. So aggravating! Like mark pinter's 2nd GL character the senator or Colleen dion's madam character.

4 hours ago, Khan said:

In retrospect, CBS probably should've pulled the plug. Instead, TPTB kept hoping GL would get better...until they realized it wouldn't.

The P&G shows were not in a good place creatively in June 1994 (the start of OJ). As we saw in the 1990s ratings thread, the P&G shows were the bottom tier by the end of 1995. The P&G shows were effectively over in the aftermath of OJ.

In that same era CBS was dealing with losing affiliates in major media markets and the sale to Westinghouse.

3 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

I was surprised that GL was in cancel territory when Laibson came on board. I do know that it was under SERIOUS consideration in the Summer of 96 when the ratings dropped below AW. Rauch was brought in to save it but the real reason GL limped on is that the Bell soap never saw the light of day.

I believe the cancel rumors first started in the early months of 1995 but really intensified in 1996. 1995 and 1996 B&B looked like it was preparing to expand to 1 hour (I'm guessing the expansion was to coincide with the 10th anniversary in March 1997) but as we all know that didn't happen.

I wonder if Bill Bell's Alzheimer's diagnosis, which likely occurred at some point during the late '90's, is what put the kibosh on his proposed new soap, as well as on expanding B&B to one hour.

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

I've seen this before and I've said this before... but the timing seems odd to me. Granted, I say this without seeing 1993-1994 haha. But for me, 1995 was so exciting. I'm guessing they convinced Kim to come back to save the show, but I'm curious if her return and Brent/Marian boosted ratings at all. For me, this cancel concern should have come in 1996. That year was generally boring and I don't think Phillip's return was helpful considering it was a dud. I like Phillip, but his return storyline just wasn't that interesting.

I'm behind right now, but looking forward to seeing those older episodes y'all posted ( @Spoon ) :)

Summer 1994 through Feb 1995 or so is almost unwatchable. The back half of 1994 is a period where basically no plot works. IMO it starts to get better in 1995 once they mostly drop the 5th Street fire plot/they let the static Spaulding power dynamic shift with AM as Pres, Annie/ Josh start, Dinah arrives (they let her stay stagnant far too long but I think she shakes some things up at first with Bloss and Marissa especially), etc.

Nancy Curlee left March 1994 yet JFP remains until May 1995.

I'm convinced Michael Laibson would've been able to get GL back on track had he had a better HW working with him.

18 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Nancy Curlee left March 1994 yet JFP remains until May 1995.

It’s fairly remarkable how rapid the drop off is given that there’s a pretty great canvas still around to work with.

12 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

. As they got older I thought both kids should be annoyed and embarrassed by Reva and always go to their dad. Kim actually COULD play subtex and the at should have been her enduring sadness that she could not connect to those twoas she would like(which is being the center of attention at all times.)

Well, naturally. But because Reva was the center of the universe, of course her kids pretty much just thought she was great. I think that's part of the reason they just disappeared, TIIC were afraid to write that natural conflict, not realizing it really could've generated powerful moments.

14 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

TV Guide June 3 1995 Michael Logan

Will the Light go out?

Start writing your letters of protest now-despite the recent, rather promising exec switch at Guiding Light (see last week's issue), rumors are rampant that CBS would much rather cancel the trouble-plagued serial, аnd expand The Bold and the Beautiful to an hour, and give the remaining half hour to B&B creator Bill Bell, who has another sudser up his sleeve. We don't blame CBS for being disgusted with the state of GL—but why | didn't these Big Eye execs do some s strong-arming when Jill Farren Phelps, the recently dethroned GL chief, allowed writer after writer after writer to alienate the audience? To be continued...

Honestly, in retrospect...WTF did CBS think Bell Sr was going to do with either an extra half hour of B&B or another half hour show? May he rest in peace, but by then, B&B was already well into recycling their storylines and stuck the triangle from Hell (Brooke/Ridge/Taylor) in an endless Groundhog Day. This I know, because I was the sucker who thought that Ridge would honestly just [!@#$%^&*] choose Brooke, instead of saying all the right things to her and trudging back to Taylor's sour-faced bed.

9 hours ago, CrazySexyQ said:

As for the incestuous relationships, I wish the writers had shown restraint. Reva was with two sons and a father. As mentioned, Bill was with two sets of mother/daughter. Olivia was with Phillip, Alan and I think Gus. Cassie/Josh bothered me more than it should have. Same with Tony/Michelle. Someone should've said "Enough!"

Not to mention Reva was with Billy's half-brother, who she "fell in love with" while married to HB and thinking Kyle was also HB's son. RME.

I can't speak for other P&G shows, but ATWT was the king of the endless maze of family dating the same people. Poor Rick...he was probably really close to getting a sibling/cousin when Mike married his mother Leslie.

5 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

In regards to Reva and her four children, I think Jonathan was most like her in personality and how he reacted to conflict.

Dylan was so low key and chill... so unlike Billy or Reva. Perhaps he had a bit of his uncle Rusty or his aunt Trish in him.

Dylan at least started out with more Billy and Reva similarities. He was stubborn and argumentative, prone to act without thinking, etc. But Englund (imo) didn't have the type of charisma to keep pulling that attitude off.

3 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Well, naturally. But because Reva was the center of the universe, of course her kids pretty much just thought she was great. I think that's part of the reason they just disappeared, TIIC were afraid to write that natural conflict, not realizing it really could've generated powerful moments.

Honestly, in retrospect...WTF did CBS think Bell Sr was going to do with either an extra half hour of B&B or another half hour show? May he rest in peace, but by then, B&B was already well into recycling their storylines and stuck the triangle from Hell (Brooke/Ridge/Taylor) in an endless Groundhog Day. This I know, because I was the sucker who thought that Ridge would honestly just [!@#$%^&*] choose Brooke, instead of saying all the right things to her and trudging back to Taylor's sour-faced puss

I watched B&B really early on (in hindsight when I crazy young-8 or 9?) and Ridge first picked Caroline over Brooke multiple times then they just slotted in Taylor once Joanna Johnson left initially and they killed Caroline off.

I still remember that they repeatedly did dramatic who will Ridge choose buildups, and each time it would be him dumping Brooke first then pledging his love to Caroline/Taylor.

I quit whenever they had Ridge and Bridget hook up and never looked back (talk about incest!) my mom still watches and I was legitimately stunned to go 15 years without watching to see literally nothing changed.

32 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Not to mention Reva was with Billy's half-brother, who she "fell in love with" while married to HB and thinking Kyle was also HB's son. RME.

Say what?! I can only imagine the fan reaction. I know that every man had to fall in love with Reva, but she's the Brooke Logan of GL. She's been with every man of the Lewis family. I want to be more outraged, but Harley, Olivia and Beth did the same (I may be missing some more). Just gross even by soap standards. It's too much for a show.

22 minutes ago, GL95 said:

I quit whenever they had Ridge and Bridget hook up and never looked back (talk about incest!) my mom still watches and I was legitimately stunned to go 15 years without watching to see literally nothing changed.

Ridge and Bridget hooking up was absolutely filthy. He helped raise her as a daughter. P&G had an issue across the board.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by CrazySexyQ

21 minutes ago, GL95 said:

I watched B&B really early on (in hindsight when I crazy young-8 or 9?) and Ridge first picked Caroline over Brooke multiple times then they just slotted in Taylor once Joanna Johnson left initially and they killed Caroline off.

I think B&B owes a lot of it's success to bringing Sheila over from Y&R. I drifted in and out of B&B for years, but I think I gave up on it seriously sometime during the Amber years. She was an obnoxious guttersnipe.

4 minutes ago, CrazySexyQ said:

Say what?! I can only imagine the fan reaction. I know that every man had to fall in love with Reva, but she's the Brooke Logan of GL. She's been with every man of the Lewis family. I want to be more outraged, but Harley and Beth did the same (I may be missing some more). Just gross even by soap standards.

Oh, Reva and Kyle were actually a big couple---and probably her most successful pairing other than Josh. I'm still convinced that if Josh had still been in Springfield, he would've been illegitimate, the product of an affair that Martha had. The original story under Marland was that Martha had died soon after Josh's birth, and that's why Trish thought HB kept him at a distance.

I'm blanking on Beth screwing her way through a family (although I guess Alan, Phillip and Lujack count), but the big one you're missing is Blake. Blake slept with Alan, Phillip and Alan-Michael, not to mention Phillip's biological uncles Ross and Ben.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by P.J.