I often notice people dismiss Sylph posts because they consider him some type of Pariah. I think he brings about many excellent points, yet some look past that and accuse him of only stirring sh*t and not really watching the show.

I totally agree! That is quite disturbing, yet it seems to slip by.

And it goes both ways, whenever someone posts something negative there are also posters who constantly jump to defend the show and prove those "negative" posters wrong. It takes two to tango, the problems in that thread don't lie solely at the feet of those who constantly critique everything about the show.

Well, if I've done that, I apologize. My only complaint ever was just reading the same post over and over and over again about the "vision" and the "storytelling". It just seemed like beating a dead horse after awhile. But I certainly didn't mean to come across like I didn't think anybody had a right to not like what was going on. So if I ever did, I absolutely apologize.

Well, if I've done that, I apologize. My only complaint ever was just reading the same post over and over and over again about the "vision" and the "storytelling". It just seemed like beating a dead horse after awhile. But I certainly didn't mean to come across like I didn't think anybody had a right to not like what was going on. So if I ever did, I absolutely apologize.

No, not anyone specifically, it seems to be a trend on BOTH ends of the spectrum, that was my point.

No, not anyone specifically, it seems to be a trend on BOTH ends of the spectrum, that was my point.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to talk me through this, guys. I feel like I have a clearer perspective on it now. I really appreciate it.

I have been browsing through this thread for awhile and I do have to say it feels like I am watching a different show than most of you describe. Of course its not perfect, but honestly what soap is? The only soap that embodied classic soap elements with a contemporary flavor that I believe is still untouchable to this day is Santa Barbara. But Y&R is still a far superior show but you wouldn't know that reading this thread.

I have been browsing through this thread for awhile and I do have to say it feels like I am watching a different show than most of you describe. Of course its not perfect, but honestly what soap is? The only soap that embodied classic soap elements with a contemporary flavor that I believe is still untouchable to this day is Santa Barbara. But Y&R is still a far superior show but you wouldn't know that reading this thread.

You have every right to feel the way you do, everything is subjective.

Though I do think Mark brought up something interesting about a lot of longtime fans across the net specifically not liking the show in its current incarnation. But nothing is really explainable when it comes to personal taste.

Hopefully if there's one thing that everyone can agree on is that Y/R is not perfect.

The problem happens when there are posters that believe they are more educated about the show than others, and feel free to berate their opinions. That's JMHO about the events on the boards the last few weeks.

Hopefully if there's one thing that everyone can agree on is that Y/R is not perfect.

The problem happens when there are posters that believe they are more educated about the show than others, and feel free to berate their opinions. That's JMHO about the events on the boards the last few weeks.

I couldn't agree more with you!

Hopefully if there's one thing that everyone can agree on is that Y/R is not perfect.

The problem happens when there are posters that believe they are more educated about the show than others, and feel free to berate their opinions. That's JMHO about the events on the boards the last few weeks.

Bingo!!! You hit the nail on the coffin!

Displeasure I udnerstand. Everyone's arguments for being displeased, I understand. It's the hatred I don't get. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I also see a lot of stuff on the air I really like too. For me, it's about 60-40. (60% unhappy, 40% happy). I'm finding a lot on a day to day basis I like. Sorry, but I do. Maybe that makes me "the wrong kind of fan" but there are aspects of each bad storyline that I find good. And frankly, I'll take 40% good over the 5% or 10% I find other soaps these days. (I know you hate that argument, but it's how I see it.)

Where's this hatred for Brad Bell, with people posting for 80 pages about how B&B is crap, over and over and over again like they have to drive the point home?

I hate to be cliche, but you know that line "The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference"? That is the difference between Y&R and B&B.

Y&R...people still love the bones of her...they still believe she can be saved...they still want to get her back to what she can be.

B&B...we gave up. I speak as a giver up...ESPECIALLY after today's show. But that is for another thread.

If I were a Y&R TPTB, I'd be delighted by all the strong sentiment, good and bad. It means there is still passion (no pun intended), and therefore still hope.

I think people gave up on any hope for B&B long ago. There also isn't a cadre of voices in the soap media telling fans how great B&B is supposed to be.

Yup.

I was asking a general question off of MarkH's posts about Usenet. Go back and look - I was quoting him talking about how fast and far this is spreading. And I just didn't understand the venom. I want to understand it, so I'm asking the people who are feeling it to explain it to me. Not defend it. Explain it. I'm trying to see all perspectives, that's all. What is it about this soap that inspires such lines being drawn between posters who've known each other and disagreed with each other for years on this board? I want to understand. We've all disagreed on numerous soaps over the years, and there's never been this kind of divide. Ever.

it makes me really sad.

Honestly, I feel the divide is becoming more of a "growing consensus". It is new, and I really think that is a recent change. The recency of it means, I think, that it can be turned around almost as quickly.

I do really think it comes to expectations. After LML, people felt the show was returning to its core identity. And, I would argue, it mostly stayed the course until recently. And EVEN NOW, the individual episodes are often excellent. What we have is the confluence of probably five stories that are all "whack" (not that that is a bad thing...but four at once is a heavy load), and each requires MAJOR suspension of disbelief (Adam, Mary Jane, P3, Art caper, quad).

It's the loading of these things, all at once, with stuff that is often pulled out of the blue. Summer has a peanut allergy? Why wasn't that seed planted a year ago? Billy doesn't want Kay to die? Why hasn't he been interacting with her for months?

For whatever reason, the plot got layered on too thick. And the head writer doesn't seem to realize it is too much. In her Branco interviews, she's positively giddy at all the twists coming down the pike. Unfortunately...the only analogy I can use....when a soup is cooked with too many spices, it becomes unpalatable. And when a soup is served too quickly...if it has not simmered long enough...the ingredients can be hard and bitter...unfinished.

There is such hope. So many exciting characters are still there, with the same actors. Many of the new actors are terrific. Yes, the cast is too big, but that is fixable.

I really wish the HW, freed from the voices of her many advisors, would sit down and watch a few weeks of, say, of the mid 1980s. Not to be regressive, but to remind herself of the style, the pacing, the staggering and blending of tales. She seemed to have her finger on it for a while.

Y&R fans are very protective of their show, not just a couple or character or whatever, but the show as a whole. You have to keep in mind that until Latham, Y&R had a very distinct style of storytelling that made many of us fans in the first place. The Latham era was the first real era where the show moved away from that kind of style and it's continued with MAB and company, and it kind of makes it worse, since MAB is Bill's daughter-in-law, and her inexperience in writing and producing soaps is well known to the general audience.

I do think MAB is burdened with being seen as 'savior'. Fairly or unfairly, a lot of people thought the "Bells" would restore this show.

Well, I don't know about the vulgar part. I'm not really aware of all of that, except for a couple posts that I thought were funny, and then I moved on.

I don't see anything "vulgar" either...but I was probably one of the participants who tarnished things for others (and for that I sincerely apologize). I think a small crew of folks interact here, and they glommed on to the social network part of things...and it doesn't offend me. But I'll try to be more mindful myself.

Wow, reading through all of that was exhausting.

Maybe people are so passionate now because they know how all soaps are in trouble and fear any blow and false move will bring about cancellation.

Perhaps.

I couldn't agree more with you!

Bingo!!! You hit the nail on the coffin!

Thanks, y'all!

Wow, reading through all of that was exhausting.

Maybe people are so passionate now because they know how all soaps are in trouble and fear any blow and false move will bring about cancellation.

Perhaps.

True but Y&R is the #1 soap and no soap is close to overtaking it.

Wow, reading through all of that was exhausting.

Maybe people are so passionate now because they know how all soaps are in trouble and fear any blow and false move will bring about cancellation.

Perhaps.

I think you have a very good point, my friend.

I often notice people dismiss Sylph posts because they consider him some type of Pariah. I think he brings about many excellent points, yet some look past that and accuse him of only stirring sh*t and not really watching the show.

Read Greg's GL post for the answer to your question.