Exactly, AMS.

The NUKERS that I've interacted with, since 2007 would be irate, if Luke or even Noah were allowed to "move on" and get with someone new, who was written and even portrayed as ***gasp*** "more mature" than either character.

That's why I truly believe that Luke and Noah will never be able to have the chance at a love triangle for that couple. TIIC that are in charge now, are just treading the nice, calm and smooth waters of trying to come up with "interesting and compelling" storylines for Noah and Luke to battle and face "together as a loving couple" that are completed within a month's timeframe.

I was so excited about the possibilities of Zac and Zoe's presence in Oakdale, way back in February 2009 and now, TIIC just screwed up that storyline with the fast pace of it, along with the continued crappy writing. They just came to town 3 maybe 2 weeks ago and within that timeframe, they've done everything that COULD have been spaced out for 4 months.

Let's see what TIIC come up for the next NUKE storyline, which will probably not be a love triangle, because NUKE have just dealt with the craziness of The Wonder Twins, along with Luke having to deal with Damian NOT being apart of his kidnapping (this time).

I just find the NUKE storylines absolutely boring and this is coming from a former NUKE fan, who finally saw the writing on the wall way back when Ameera was created in 2008.

Noah and Luke, especially a character that comes from a two legacy characters on the show, shouldn't be so boring.

OMG!

LOVING THE SCREEN NAME!!! :wub:

I'm gonna be a bitch and steal it for my every day life! LOL!

Exactly, AMS.

The NUKERS that I've interacted with, since 2007 would be irate, if Luke or even Noah were allowed to "move on" and get with someone new, who was written and even portrayed as ***gasp*** "more mature" than either character.

That's why I truly believe that Luke and Noah will never be able to have the chance at a love triangle for that couple. TIIC that are in charge now, are just treading the nice, calm and smooth waters of trying to come up with "interesting and compelling" storylines for Noah and Luke to battle and face "together as a loving couple" that are completed within a month's timeframe.

I don't think the possibility of fan reaction has anything to do with ATWT not writing new love interests for Luke and/or Noah. Chris Goutman has even stated that he doesn't care what the fans think. If they wanted to they would do it, but I don't think they want to. They've had no problem writing new romantic stories for Carly and Jack and that fanbase is just as big (perhaps even bigger) than the Nuke fanbase.

I don't think they want to add any more gay characters to the show and break up Luke & Noah. They got them together and has managed to keep them more or less chaste, except for the kissing and a very toned down sexual encounter. If they introduced a new gay character that came between them they would have to go through the whole courtship cycle again, and the audience would be expecting more this time since the characters are less "innocent" than they were when Luke & Noah got together.

I don't think the possibility of fan reaction has anything to do with ATWT not writing new love interests for Luke and/or Noah. Chris Goutman has even stated that he doesn't care what the fans think. If they wanted to they would do it, but I don't think they want to. They've had no problem writing new romantic stories for Carly and Jack and that fanbase is just as big (perhaps even bigger) than the Nuke fanbase.

I don't think they want to add any more gay characters to the show and break up Luke & Noah. They got them together and has managed to keep them more or less chaste, except for the kissing and a very toned down sexual encounter. If they introduced a new gay character that came between them they would have to go through the whole courtship cycle again, and the audience would be expecting more this time since the characters are less "innocent" than they were when Luke & Noah got together.

While I know that Goutman really doesn't care what most fans think, I think the exception is the Nuke fanbase. Not so much he doesn't want to let the fans down or disappoint them, but more of he doesn't want to piss them off and get a huge backlash against ATWT/PGP/CBS/whoever. He wants to half-ass thie story and couple, but he also wants the praise and attention. He wants to have his cake and eat it too, if you will. If the mainstream gay media approved of having Luke and Noah jump into a time machine and go back to 1776 to seduce the signers of the Declaration of Independence (and I'm not so sure that some outlets wouldn't approve!), Goutman and Passanante would write that [!@#$%^&*] in a minute.

While I know that Goutman really doesn't care what most fans think, I think the exception is the Nuke fanbase. Not so much he doesn't want to let the fans down or disappoint them, but more of he doesn't want to piss them off and get a huge backlash against ATWT/PGP/CBS/whoever. He wants to half-ass thie story and couple, but he also wants the praise and attention. He wants to have his cake and eat it too, if you will. If the mainstream gay media approved of having Luke and Noah jump into a time machine and go back to 1776 to seduce the signers of the Declaration of Independence (and I'm not so sure that some outlets wouldn't approve!), Goutman and Passanante would write that [!@#$%^&*] in a minute.

But that's just it. What kind of backlash could there possibly be? I can understand that some mainstream media reported about the kissing ban, because that was (somewhat) newsworthy since it dealt with unequal treatment of gay characters vs straight characters. But breaking up a couple for a new one happens all the time on soaps, so who would care that the Nuke fans were upset? My guess is: absolutely no-one! The only ones who would be upset are the hardcore Nuke-fans, but they hardly have the kind of power some people seem to think they have. If that was the case wouldn't Luke & Noah have been much more front and center than they have been?

I do think that you're right about Goutman wanting to have his cake and eat it too. He got what he wanted, a token gay couple, and now that he has that he's gonna stick to that couple. The expectations would be much higher if he introduced a new gay character as a love interest for Luke (I chose Luke since he is the core character of Nuke). He doesn't want to deal with that so he sticks to the relatively harmless, sexless Nuke couple.

But that's just it. What kind of backlash could there possibly be? I can understand that some mainstream media reported about the kissing ban, because that was (somewhat) newsworthy since it dealt with unequal treatment of gay characters vs straight characters. But breaking up a couple for a new one happens all the time on soaps, so who would care that the Nuke fans were upset? My guess is: absolutely no-one! The only ones who would be upset are the hardcore Nuke-fans, but they hardly have the kind of power some people seem to think they have. If that was the case wouldn't Luke & Noah have been much more front and center than they have been?

I do think that you're right about Goutman wanting to have his cake and eat it too. He got what he wanted, a token gay couple, and now that he has that he's gonna stick to that couple. The expectations would be much higher if he introduced a new gay character as a love interest for Luke (I chose Luke since he is the core character of Nuke). He doesn't want to deal with that so he sticks to the relatively harmless, sexless Nuke couple.

I agree with you. I don't believe there's some monolithic, all-powerful fan base of Nuke fans who have ATWT under their thumb. It's easier for the show to keep Noah and Luke together. People know what to expect with them. If a new gay character is ever involved in a triangle, or is a serious threat to Nuke, then ATWT will have to start going into more uncharted territory, will face more scrutiny if they don't have more intimate aspects of the characters' lives, and will also have to deal with the, "IS THIS A GAY SHOW??" type of backlash which Hollyoaks had to face.

I would almost like to believe some other soap can do better than what's happened with Nuke, that this story is a scourge for gay representation, that their fans are blocking all types of progress, but I can't at the moment. I think, for better or worse, Nuke is probably the best (besides Otalia) we're going to get in today's daytime world. Or even most of primetime.

*insert advertisement for Guiding Light's Olivia and Natalia, collectively known as Otalia*

but I thought Olivia and Natalia wasn't a gay story?

I think with ATWT, they built their own monster. They built it up to be this big thing, and then when it wasn't, the backlash happened, so they've created "just enough" of a Nuke romance to keep the fans appeased, and don't have to go any farther. And any sort of resistance for Nuke is met with the backlash so they just stopped.

I think the fact the fact that Nuke had the following before Jake even started airing shows people want the story--but only in a particular form.

But that's just it. What kind of backlash could there possibly be? I can understand that some mainstream media reported about the kissing ban, because that was (somewhat) newsworthy since it dealt with unequal treatment of gay characters vs straight characters. But breaking up a couple for a new one happens all the time on soaps, so who would care that the Nuke fans were upset? My guess is: absolutely no-one! The only ones who would be upset are the hardcore Nuke-fans, but they hardly have the kind of power some people seem to think they have. If that was the case wouldn't Luke & Noah have been much more front and center than they have been?

I do think that you're right about Goutman wanting to have his cake and eat it too. He got what he wanted, a token gay couple, and now that he has that he's gonna stick to that couple. The expectations would be much higher if he introduced a new gay character as a love interest for Luke (I chose Luke since he is the core character of Nuke). He doesn't want to deal with that so he sticks to the relatively harmless, sexless Nuke couple.

I can already see the headlines at GLAAD and AfterElton. They'd act as if ATWT was committing a crime by breaking up Nuke and probably go as far as saying that they're "insulting queer viewers everywhere." It shouldn't cause backlash, but I'm sure there are many who would tune out if Nuke split, even if Luke went on and had a real relationship with a real boyfriend.

I just feel that if/when Luke and Noah break up, ATWT/PGP/CBS would never have the balls to let them be over for good, and that's really the whole issue with so-called supercouples anyway. Holden and Lily shouldn't always be the end game, and neither should Luke and Noah.

I agree with you. I don't believe there's some monolithic, all-powerful fan base of Nuke fans who have ATWT under their thumb. It's easier for the show to keep Noah and Luke together. People know what to expect with them. If a new gay character is ever involved in a triangle, or is a serious threat to Nuke, then ATWT will have to start going into more uncharted territory, will face more scrutiny if they don't have more intimate aspects of the characters' lives, and will also have to deal with the, "IS THIS A GAY SHOW??" type of backlash which Hollyoaks had to face.

I would almost like to believe some other soap can do better than what's happened with Nuke, that this story is a scourge for gay representation, that their fans are blocking all types of progress, but I can't at the moment. I think, for better or worse, Nuke is probably the best (besides Otalia) we're going to get in today's daytime world. Or even most of primetime.

There isn't an all-powerful base of Nuke fans who have ATWT under their thumb? I'll give you that they might not have ATWT under their thumb, but GLAAD and their ilk definitely see themselves as all-powerful, as THE one and only voice of the LGBT community. Look no further than the kiss compaign.

I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying that ATWT shouldn't do a triangle or break up Nuke in favor of another guy for Luke because they'd be faced with scrutiny? I thought the whole point of the kiss campaign was to not let ATWT/PGP/CBS fall to the conservative fanbases who wanted to suck all of the affection out of Luke and Noah's relationship. If there's gonna be progress in the way of gays in daytime, it sure won't be gained by sticking with Nuke and not moving on.

but I thought Olivia and Natalia wasn't a gay story?

I think with ATWT, they built their own monster. They built it up to be this big thing, and then when it wasn't, the backlash happened, so they've created "just enough" of a Nuke romance to keep the fans appeased, and don't have to go any farther. And any sort of resistance for Nuke is met with the backlash so they just stopped.

I think the fact the fact that Nuke had the following before Jake even started airing shows people want the story--but only in a particular form.

Liv and Nat are worth watching. I'll gladly take a serving of crow in regards to them because they've proved nearly all of my suspicions wrong. Otal kicks Nuke's ass in a hundred different ways.

Edited April 23, 200916 yr by All My Shadows

There isn't an all-powerful base of Nuke fans who have ATWT under their thumb? I'll give you that they might not have ATWT under their thumb, but GLAAD and their ilk definitely see themselves as all-powerful, as THE one and only voice of the LGBT community. Look no further than the kiss compaign.

I think GLAAD sees themselves as being shills for the entertainment industry. I don't think they care about being a voice for the gay community. If they did, then they wouldn't have lavished praise on the repulsive Rianca storyline, which did no favors for any lesbian. They wouldn't have given an award to Grey's Anatomy at a time when the show's creator/EP wouldn't even make any strong public statement about the Isaiah Washington/TR Knight controversy. I think if GLAAD were that power-mad they would have demanded more than just kissing. In the end they got ATWT to compromise, but not in a very harsh way, because all they had to do was go back to what Nuke had already done, since they'd kissed in their first month or so as a couple.

I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying that ATWT shouldn't do a triangle or break up Nuke in favor of another guy for Luke because they'd be faced with scrutiny?

No. I'm not saying they shouldn't do that. I'm saying they probably won't do that, because of the scrutiny and having to bring in more gay stories or more gay characters. I think ATWT's gay content will end with Nuke leaving town together, or Luke being alone and not having any other relationships.

Edited April 23, 200916 yr by CarlD2

But with Olivia and Natalia, I've always heard the supporters say "its not a gay story" and on and on...so why does it then come up for discussion here?

I just feel that if/when Luke and Noah break up, ATWT/PGP/CBS would never have the balls to let them be over for good, and that's really the whole issue with so-called supercouples anyway. Holden and Lily shouldn't always be the end game, and neither should Luke and Noah.

I totally agree. They are never going to do it, and that annoys me. We get instead current storylines like this one that are just horrid.

I can already see the headlines at GLAAD and AfterElton. They'd act as if ATWT was committing a crime by breaking up Nuke and probably go as far as saying that they're "insulting queer viewers everywhere." It shouldn't cause backlash, but I'm sure there are many who would tune out if Nuke split, even if Luke went on and had a real relationship with a real boyfriend.

I just feel that if/when Luke and Noah break up, ATWT/PGP/CBS would never have the balls to let them be over for good, and that's really the whole issue with so-called supercouples anyway. Holden and Lily shouldn't always be the end game, and neither should Luke and Noah.

There isn't an all-powerful base of Nuke fans who have ATWT under their thumb? I'll give you that they might not have ATWT under their thumb, but GLAAD and their ilk definitely see themselves as all-powerful, as THE one and only voice of the LGBT community. Look no further than the kiss compaign.

I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying that ATWT shouldn't do a triangle or break up Nuke in favor of another guy for Luke because they'd be faced with scrutiny? I thought the whole point of the kiss campaign was to not let ATWT/PGP/CBS fall to the conservative fanbases who wanted to suck all of the affection out of Luke and Noah's relationship. If there's gonna be progress in the way of gays in daytime, it sure won't be gained by sticking with Nuke and not moving on.

Liv and Nat are worth watching. I'll gladly take a serving of crow in regards to them because they've proved nearly all of my suspicions wrong. Otal kicks Nuke's ass in a hundred different ways.

To AfterElton.com's credit, they have reported on gay couples' breakups on shows before and have not spun it to make it sound anti-gay. I think that they would probably expect Luke to have a new story STAT though. They have already said how they're not too fond of Noah.

I think GLAAD sees themselves as being shills for the entertainment industry. I don't think they care about being a voice for the gay community. If they did, then they wouldn't have lavished praise on the repulsive Rianca storyline, which did no favors for any lesbian. They wouldn't have given an award to Grey's Anatomy at a time when the show's creator/EP wouldn't even make any strong public statement about the Isaiah Washington/TR Knight controversy. I think if GLAAD were that power-mad they would have demanded more than just kissing. In the end they got ATWT to compromise, but not in a very harsh way, because all they had to do was go back to what Nuke had already done, since they'd kissed in their first month or so as a couple.

We agree!

No. I'm not saying they shouldn't do that. I'm saying they probably won't do that, because of the scrutiny and having to bring in more gay stories or more gay characters. I think ATWT's gay content will end with Nuke leaving town together, or Luke being alone and not having any other relationships.

Oh, all right, I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting correctly. I agree...unless ATWT mans up (man ups? men up? mens ups?) and just stops caring about pissing people off and tells a natural story, Luke nor Noah won't get any real play at all. I'd love to be wrong.

But with Olivia and Natalia, I've always heard the supporters say "its not a gay story" and on and on...so why does it then come up for discussion here?

I think the general subject is relationships in soaps that aren't the traditional man-woman relationships. I hate sexual labels anyway, so I see why Otal fans might not call it a "gay" storyline. Hell, it really isn't, because I'm sure Nat's marvelous glow hasn't stifled Liv's love of men.